Australian Politics Forum - Muslims in our jails

polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims in our jails
Reply #60 - Mar 21^st, 2014 at 11:34am

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2014 at 6:53pm:

Accept what reference?

The reference to a causal link.

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2014 at 6:53pm:

If he were not Muslim, he would have been told very quickly that it is illegal. If he had persisted in trying to get someone to conduct a wedding ceremony, he would have been reported to authorities. The causative role of Islam is undeniable, and the crime itself is typical of Islam.

FD, what part of 3 people's involvement in the only case of its kind we know about does not constitute evidence of any sort of trend - don't you understand?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Muslims in our jails
Reply #61 - Mar 21^st, 2014 at 7:05pm

Quote:

The reference to a causal link.

You said there was a causal link. Are you now arguing that you should take your own claim at face value? What makes you think there is a causal link?

Quote:

FD, what part of 3 people's involvement in the only case of its kind we know about does not constitute evidence of any sort of trend - don't you understand?

It's quite simple Gandalf. You asked for evidence. I gave you evidence. Whatever waffly criticism you make of it, it is still evidence.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims in our jails
Reply #62 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 11:30am

freediver wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 7:05pm:

You said there was a causal link.

There is - according to the literature.

freediver wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 7:05pm:

It's quite simple Gandalf. You asked for evidence. I gave you evidence. Whatever waffly criticism you make of it, it is still evidence.

Right, very simple isn't it? Maybe thats the problem you are having.

How about I make another simple proposition: Aboriginal crime is due to middle class Aborigines conducting white collar crime. So amongst the entire Aboriginal prisoner population I'll search until I find 3 or so inmates that are in there for corporate fraud (who knows, maybe there are some). And viola - I have just provided "evidence" that Aboriginal crime is due to white collar crime.

Sound stupid? I agree. Ditto for your argument about muslim criminals.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Muslims in our jails
Reply #63 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 1:04pm

Quote:

There is - according to the literature.

There is, according to you, but you don't quite understand what it is.

Quote:

Sound stupid? I agree. Ditto for your argument about muslim criminals.

Is this another one of those instances where I don't actually say what I am saying?

What would be stupid is me claiming that the evidence you present is not evidence.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Muslims in our jails
Reply #64 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 1:16pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 20^th, 2014 at 6:21pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 18^th, 2014 at 1:31pm:

Yes, muslims are overrepresented in gaols - at least in Australia. I think its pretty obvious the reasons are for the same reasons Aborigines are overrepresented, and it has everything to do with socio-economic backgrounds, and little to do with religious background.

Its basically kindergarten logic to blame islam for this given what we know about the link between socio-economic conditions and crime.

Muslims appear to top the numbers for being unemployed or in jail, it is a trend that is happening in many non Islamic countries.

If religion plays no part in this why do atheists and those with no religion have the lowest numbers in western jails?

Atheists/No religion also come from lower socio economic backgrounds, why do they appear as the lowest numbers in our jails?

Gandalf- Can you give a plausible reason to why those with no religion have the lowest numbers in Jail in non Islamic countries?

Why did moderate Indonesia jail the atheist Alexander Aan, did he upset a few muslims by having no religion?

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49364 At my desk.	Re: Muslims in our jails Reply #65 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 1:24pm Quote: Why did moderate Indonesia jail the atheist Alexander Aan There you go Gandalf, a direct causal link between atheism and going to jail. Your turn now.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims in our jails
Reply #66 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 6:30pm

freediver wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 1:04pm:

Is this another one of those instances where I don't actually say what I am saying?

lets play another game of proving to FD he said what he said:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 19^th, 2014 at 7:41pm:

If you have any evidence that devoutly following the Prophet's example explains high muslim imprisonment rates (apart from the miniscule number of inmates on terror charges) then by all means, show us. Until then your theory is conjecture.

FD replied:

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2014 at 8:44pm:

Hopefully the guy who married the 12 year old ends up in prison. And the father. And the Imam. Do they count, or were they not devout enough?

You then spent a couple of posts thereafter claiming this was indeed the evidence required.

Explaining it to you yet again, 3 people in the only instance of its kind that we know about, is not in any way shape or form evidence that devoutly following the example of Prophet Muhammad explains high muslim imprisonment rates.

Its retarded, its stupid, its bigoted, its islamophobic, and it makes you look like a fool. Wake up to yourself. If the FD of 2007 could see the way he is arguing today, he would hold his head in shame.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Muslims in our jails
Reply #67 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 6:40pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 6:30pm:

Its retarded, its stupid, its bigoted, its islamophobic,

Islamophobic is a term that is both technically and logically incorrect, if they were truly phobic they would be compelled to avoid Islam not confront it head on like FD does.

If you want to argue Islamophobic is legitimate then surely Judeophobic and christianophobic would be legitimate terms as well.

Can we call muslims who criticise Israel or Jews Judeophobic, are you happy with that?
Can we call muslims who criticise christians Christianophobes,are you happy with that?

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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freediver

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Re: Muslims in our jails
Reply #68 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 6:48pm

Quote:

You then spent a couple of posts thereafter claiming this was indeed the evidence required.

It is evidence Gandalf, whether you like it or not. Perhaps you need to get out a dictionary.

Quote:

Islamophobic is a term that is both technically and logically incorrect, if they were truly phobic they would be compelled to avoid Islam not confront it head on like FD does.

Gandalf has also accused his critics of cynically exploiting "wishy washy western liberal morals" to attack Islam. Apparently we cannot possibly have a valid reason for criticising this crap.

Quote:

If you want to argue Islamophobic is legitimate then surely Judeophobic and christianophobic would be legitimate terms as well.

That's the excuse Gandalf uses for Muhammed executing 800 Jews in one day. They were scared of them.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Muslims in our jails
Reply #69 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 7:15pm

freediver wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 6:48pm:

Quote:

If you want to argue Islamophobic is legitimate then surely Judeophobic and christianophobic would be legitimate terms as well.

That's the excuse Gandalf uses for Muhammed executing 800 Jews in one day. They were scared of them.

Perhaps Muhammad was only Judeophobic towards Jewish men, he did marry a few Jewish women he captured on the same day he had their husbands heads chopped off.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims in our jails
Reply #70 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 7:57pm

freediver wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 6:48pm:

It is evidence Gandalf, whether you like it or not. Perhaps you need to get out a dictionary.

Yes, FD, its evidence that 3 muslims will probably go to gaol over an islamic underage marriage.

It is not, repeat *NOT* evidence that devoutly following the example of Prophet Muhammad explains high muslim imprisonment rates.

You seriously having difficulty comprehending this?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims in our jails
Reply #71 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 8:08pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 6:40pm:

Islamophobic is a term that is both technically and logically incorrect, if they were truly phobic they would be compelled to avoid Islam not confront it head on like FD does.

FD, just like you and all the other islamophobes *FEAR* that islam will gain a greater hold in this country, you all *FEAR* that the western world is being overrun by muslims and the spineless apologetics that support them, FD (and probably you) *FEARS* the attack on our democracy and freedom of speech that is supposedly associated with the growth of islam. FD fears the 100 million+ "little Hitlers" to our north who he feels fit to mention in the same sentence as WWII Japanese militants (but definitely *NOT* comparing with) - presumably ready to pounce on us and immediately introduce apostasy laws.

So don't give me that crap about not fearing muslims Baron.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Muslims in our jails
Reply #72 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 10:49pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 7:57pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 6:48pm:

It is evidence Gandalf, whether you like it or not. Perhaps you need to get out a dictionary.

Yes, FD, its evidence that 3 muslims will probably go to gaol over an islamic underage marriage.

It is not, repeat *NOT* evidence that devoutly following the example of Prophet Muhammad explains high muslim imprisonment rates.

You seriously having difficulty comprehending this?

It is evidence of both of these things.

Quote:

So don't give me that crap about not fearing muslims Baron.

Democracy is a fragile thing. Freedom is a fragile thing. Human rights are fragile. Muslims like Abu openly reject these things.

I don't think acknowledging this equates to a phobia. I think it is highly unlikely that Muslims will achieve what they want. That does not mean we should stop giving them a hard time about it.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Pete Waldo

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Re: Muslims in our jails
Reply #73 - Mar 26^th, 2014 at 1:00am

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 8:08pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 6:40pm:

Islamophobic is a term that is both technically and logically incorrect, if they were truly phobic they would be compelled to avoid Islam not confront it head on like FD does.

FD, just like you and all the other islamophobes *FEAR* that islam will gain a greater hold in this country, you all *FEAR* that the western world is being overrun by muslims and the spineless apologetics that support them, FD (and probably you) *FEARS* the attack on our democracy and freedom of speech that is supposedly associated with the growth of islam. FD fears the 100 million+ "little Hitlers" to our north who he feels fit to mention in the same sentence as WWII Japanese militants (but definitely *NOT* comparing with) - presumably ready to pounce on us and immediately introduce apostasy laws.

So don't give me that crap about not fearing muslims Baron.

Christians shouldn't have any fears, and at least in my case, I note your laundry list as giving me all the more reason to believe in God, since the rise of the false prophet Muhammad's Islamic kingdom "beast" was prophesied for what I believe are these last days. So it is just more fulfillment of prophecy, and thus, more proof of God.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/muhammad_islam_in_bible_prophecy.htm#johns_w...

But a phobia isn't simply a fear of something gand. The term "phobia" is used to describe as a fear that is ".....typically disproportional to the actual danger posed, often being recognized as irrational.....", so it is obviously oxymoronic to apply that suffix to the term "Islam" which is used to identify a violent, murderous, imperialistic, political machine, whose adherents are commanded by their leader to conquer all kingdoms, and subjugate all people to Muhammad's followers:

Quran Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Bukhari, V1 B2 #24 Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle....."
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/islamophobia_or_christian_love.htm

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« Last Edit: Mar 26^th, 2014 at 1:25am by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims in our jails
Reply #74 - Mar 26^th, 2014 at 7:12am

Pete Waldo wrote on Mar 26^th, 2014 at 1:00am:

The term "phobia" is used to describe as a fear that is ".....typically disproportional to the actual danger posed, often being recognized as irrational.....", so it is obviously oxymoronic to apply that suffix to the term "Islam" which is used to identify a violent, murderous, imperialistic, political machine

Ah.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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