Australian Politics Forum - SA Gerrymander must end

St George of the Garden Gold Member Offline http://tinyurl.com/n 3o8m2x Posts: 9809 Gender:	Re: SA Gerrymander must end Reply #90 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 10:56pm The only Labor gerrymander I can think of is the Gair Labor govt one in Qld. There may have been more. But multimember seats, 4 MPs to a Fed electorate are is all we need.
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Frances

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Re: SA Gerrymander must end
Reply #91 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 1:51am

Bam wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 1:58pm:

Frances wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 10:50am:

Is it really a Gerrymander, or is it just the unavoidable result of having almost all the Liberal supporters living in large numbers in a few select areas? I'm not sure about South Australia, but in NSW there are quite a few electorates where the Liberal vote is ridiculously high just because a lot of Liberals live there.....

I think this may be what is going on, but I have not yet seen any analysis that confirms or refutes this theory.

I was thinking specifically of the Hills District and the North Shore in Sydney, where the Liberals would routinely get, in some instances, over 70% of the vote. Short of forcibly moving right wingers' places of residence to left wing electorates, I see no way of correcting this and no way of ensuring that 50% of the vote equates to 50% of the seats.

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Peter Freedman Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5275 Wellington Gender:	Re: SA Gerrymander must end Reply #92 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 4:02am At last count, 84 countries have some form of proportional voting. NZ introduced it in 1996, despite the frantic opposition of conservatives and big business. Since then, all governments have been coalitions. They have worked well, and each one has seen out its full term.
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Bam

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Re: SA Gerrymander must end
Reply #93 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 11:27am

St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 3:01pm:

SA has 12 federal electorates—each one of those could elect 4 members on a proportional basis, 4 MPs representing the one seat, that should see a much closer congruence between state seats and votes. All seats would have at least one Lib or one Lab MPs so voters of either persuasion could go see an MP about whatever he needed to see an MP about.

This is fine in principle, but it won't work. The number of Federal electorates in South Australia is not constant. If SA loses a Federal seat, it's silly to expect the state to cut four MPs from state parliament at the next election.

Quote:

so voters of either persuasion could go see an MP about whatever he needed to see an MP about.

This is why multi-member electorates should be considered. However, four members per electorate may be too few to guarantee diversity of representation.

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Bam

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Re: SA Gerrymander must end
Reply #94 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 1:58pm

Frances wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 1:51am:

Bam wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 1:58pm:

Frances wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 10:50am:

Is it really a Gerrymander, or is it just the unavoidable result of having almost all the Liberal supporters living in large numbers in a few select areas? I'm not sure about South Australia, but in NSW there are quite a few electorates where the Liberal vote is ridiculously high just because a lot of Liberals live there.....

I think this may be what is going on, but I have not yet seen any analysis that confirms or refutes this theory.

I was thinking specifically of the Hills District and the North Shore in Sydney, where the Liberals would routinely get, in some instances, over 70% of the vote. Short of forcibly moving right wingers' places of residence to left wing electorates, I see no way of correcting this and no way of ensuring that 50% of the vote equates to 50% of the seats.

Multi-member electorates. It will introduce a degree of proportional representation to the lower house.

The SA Senate is already fully proportional with 22 Senators. Half the senators are elected at each election with the whole state being treated as one electorate. Quota is 1/12 (about 8.33%).

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: SA Gerrymander must end
Reply #95 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 2:29pm

Labor has just shot itself in the head. 4 years of governing and then how many years in opposition as a result of the hatred that will spur from the electorate as a result of yet again winning without the majority vote.

It would have been better for them, long term, to wait in opposition for four years while the libs scrambled and stuffed up as they had in Victoria, and then win back government with a refreshed and reenergised new team.

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St George of the Garden

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Re: SA Gerrymander must end
Reply #96 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 5:03pm

Bam wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 11:27am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 3:01pm:

SA has 12 federal electorates—each one of those could elect 4 members on a proportional basis, 4 MPs representing the one seat, that should see a much closer congruence between state seats and votes. All seats would have at least one Lib or one Lab MPs so voters of either persuasion could go see an MP about whatever he needed to see an MP about.

This is fine in principle, but it won't work. The number of Federal electorates in South Australia is not constant. If SA loses a Federal seat, it's silly to expect the state to cut four MPs from state parliament at the next election.

Quote:

so voters of either persuasion could go see an MP about whatever he needed to see an MP about.

This is why multi-member electorates should be considered. However, four members per electorate may be too few to guarantee diversity of representation.

We have had 12 seats seemingly forever, but, yes, you do sort of have a point. But there is a parallel in that there is a nexus between HoR seats and numbers of Senators.

I don’t want a full PV system, the whole state as one electorate. There is instability but no representation in a full PV system.

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buzzanddidj

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Re: SA Gerrymander must end
Reply #97 - Mar 24^th, 2014 at 7:13am

The SA result, regardless, was VITAL for any future of renewable energy in this country

buzzanddidj wrote on Mar 16^th, 2014 at 9:53am:

ANYONE with the slightest concern for the environment would epitomise

"HYPOCRITE"

- were they not praying for another four year term for the Weatherill Labor Government

South Australia and the ACT - under Labor - are the country's last enclaves and hopes for a chance and future for SUSTAINABLE, RENEWABLE ENERGY

Wind farms churn out more than half SA's electricity during wild weather

27 Aug 2013

A record amount of wind energy generated in southern Australia last week demonstrates the need for more investment in renewable technology.

In recent wild weather, wind turbines produced almost half of South Australia's electricity, while 10 per cent of Victoria's energy was delivered by wind farms.

The Clean Energy Council says wind farms powered the equivalent of 2.3 million homes nationwide.

Conservation council chief executive Tim Kelly says South Australia is on track to achieve its 2020 renewable energy target of 33 per cent.

Mr Kelly says wind farms are a proven power source and the recent result should prompt more ambitious renewable energy targets.

"South Australia can make electricity when the wind blows. We can also make electricity when the sun shines and we can also expand in hot rocks and other renewable supplies but we've got so much wind electricity established now that during these periods at this time of the year in particular we're generating lots of wind power," he said.

"Where will the next 30 per cent of renewable electricity come from in South Australia by say 2030?

"That's going to take a different thinking where we connect to the great wind resources on Eyre Peninsula and we've also got these great solar resources and projects like the Repower Port Augusta large-scale concentrated solar thermal power plant."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-27/wind-energy-generation-record/4914266

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St George of the Garden Gold Member Offline http://tinyurl.com/n 3o8m2x Posts: 9809 Gender:	Re: SA Gerrymander must end Reply #98 - Mar 24^th, 2014 at 7:25am Yup. Why I said that pragmatically I am glad we still have a Labor govt. Past minority govts have done well, just Murdoch and Rudd managed to convince voters the brilliant Gillard govt was bad. We see in the coming legislation Murdoch getting his reward for his blatant propagandising on behalf the simian.
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Bam

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Re: SA Gerrymander must end
Reply #99 - Mar 24^th, 2014 at 7:58am

St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 5:03pm:

Bam wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 11:27am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 3:01pm:

SA has 12 federal electorates—each one of those could elect 4 members on a proportional basis, 4 MPs representing the one seat, that should see a much closer congruence between state seats and votes. All seats would have at least one Lib or one Lab MPs so voters of either persuasion could go see an MP about whatever he needed to see an MP about.

This is fine in principle, but it won't work. The number of Federal electorates in South Australia is not constant. If SA loses a Federal seat, it's silly to expect the state to cut four MPs from state parliament at the next election.

Quote:

so voters of either persuasion could go see an MP about whatever he needed to see an MP about.

This is why multi-member electorates should be considered. However, four members per electorate may be too few to guarantee diversity of representation.

We have had 12 seats seemingly forever, but, yes, you do sort of have a point. But there is a parallel in that there is a nexus between HoR seats and numbers of Senators.

I don’t want a full PV system, the whole state as one electorate. There is instability but no representation in a full PV system.

The SA Senate already has voting with the whole state as one electorate. I see no good reason why both houses of the SA Parliament should be chosen using the same method. It is better to retain the principle of one house consisting of local members and one house with oversight for the state as a whole.

Multi-member electorates are still local if there's enough of them.

On your point with 12 electorates, there's no reason why there can't be 12 electorates initially drafted along the boundaries of Federal electorates but retained at 12 if the number of Federal electorates change.

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skippy. Gold Member Offline Posts: 20882 Gender:	Re: SA Gerrymander must end Reply #100 - Mar 24^th, 2014 at 7:05pm I see the usual sooks are out in force, what do you want? Labor won't one seat more than the Liberals, so if the independent went with the Libs it was a hung parliament, babies.s we live in a country where governments are formed by seat majority, if you don't like that leave.
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