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longweekend58
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Phemanderac wrote on Mar 21 st, 2014 at 5:43pm: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21 st, 2014 at 4:25pm: Phemanderac wrote on Mar 21 st, 2014 at 2:37pm: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21 st, 2014 at 1:23pm: There is one concept that is missing here. Take the situation in SA where the Libs lead 53/47 in 2PP yet the independents will decide who governs.
Instead of negotiation which might be appropriate in a dead-heat, how about the independents consult the people of SA about it? Oh that's right... we held an election with a massive liberal majority. They could use that as a hint that the people want liberal govt and therefore support them. But no, independents have very rarely ever been anything even remotely independent. Nor do they seem to consider the views of the electorate. I think the argument you have presented is an excellent one for people not being represented appropriately to be honest. However, that is not so much an argument supporting independents being not independent, in point of fact, it argues effectively that they (as pointed out) acted independently, so independently they were independent of the system that elected them, namely "representative democracy". Whilst I realise that there are partisan issues at play in this, not surprising on a partisan semi political discussion site really, the stand out non partisan point to me is that this highlights the need for Australia to have a good hard look at the myriad flaws inherent in the Representative Democratic system and, work towards changing that to a direct democratic system. YEP there will still be ideological issues aplenty to discuss at length, yes there will still be flaws, errors, corruption and concerns, that is people being human I suspect. However, Australians will have a much clearer and louder voice in how we are Governed, and, eventually, Government will be something genuinely for the people, rather than the currents system whereby Governing is done to the people (regardless of the Party crap). Im not a fan od direct democracy as it only works with a politically engaged electorate which is one thing Australians most definitely are not. No system is perfect nad never will be but what I find rather astonishing in places like this is that the majority - indeed the vast majority - aren't even remotely interested in fair democratic rule and representation but rather just 'winning' It cant get any more pathetic than that. Agreed, however, for my own part, rather than dismiss a direct democracy because of in part inherent and (to my mind) in part deliberate political dumbing down and disengagement, we need to address the dumbing down, we need to proactively and in a bipartisan way work to educate people about political systems and ultimately, as the people, take charge of our own politics. Please don't think I am silly enough to think we could just re - write the constitution, reboot the political system and all will be well. I do agree with you about how disconnected many Australians (very likely the majority) are from politics, however, I feel this is ultimately to our detriment as a people. We are ultimately the victims of politicians of all ilks and big financial interests, many of which have no significant connection with Australia apart from their exploitation or its resources and people. As I see it, the "not so independents", the Gerrymander system, the vitriolic and personal abuse within politics, the absolute void of integrity across all political spectrums and the very good point you make the win at all costs mentality are all signs of cracks in the wall that is our political establishment. Time to tear the wall down and build a better structure, first comes engagement of people of all walks of life and then education of all things political. We need to encourage people to question everything. This use to be something that even the most politically apathetic of Australians did because of a cultural distrust of Authority. Sadly, I don't think we have any greater trust for authority as a people still, but we just lost the tenacity to question stuff along the way. That is why the Farrs, Bolts, et al thrive currently. People take what they say on board without question, because it suits their current opinion on any given day. the reasons for the disengagement with politics is that life in Australia is very good, arguably world-best. It is hard for joe average who doesn't have that political bent to somehow engage a process he believes has already delivered a good outcome. Countries with high levels of political engagement tend to be places with very real problems while here our 'problems' are minor compared to most. It is a rule of thumb that people don't get involved in a process they consider is already doing well even if they think it could be better. Our culture also has a tendency to be laid-back about many things and until our lives are threatened (eg war) we don't make big deals about it. That is why DD is a failed fit for Australia. it would only allow the opinionated few to rule over the less engaged majority. And it is not unfair to expect politics to be managed democratically without having to actually express an opinion on every issue.
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