Australian Politics Forum - Not so Independents

Lobo

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 7407
Sydney
Gender: male

Re: Not so Independents
Reply #45 - Mar 21^st, 2014 at 8:30pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 7:51pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 6:29pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 5:55pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 5:41pm:

Independents should back good policy not either major party.....That would ensure we get the best result from a hung Parliament!!!

how about we try something novel and expect independents to reflect the wishes of voters? I see a lot or argument on here over policy but virtually no discussion about voters getting what they want.

By voting for an Independent voters have rejected the major parties....I fail to see any validity to your argument as usual!!!

Roll Eyes

why do u say that? that is a presumption. It has some basis but it remains a presumption since most independents are known to be aligned ideologically to one or other party's general position. or did you miss the massive voter backlash against oakeshot and windsor after they voted in defiance of their electorates wishes?

Isn't this a presumption??

Or do you have a list of all independents and their political alignment???

Back to top

"What's in store for me in the direction I don't take?"-Jack Kerouac.

IP Logged

Setanta

Gold Member

Offline

\/ Peace man!

Posts: 16618
Northern NSW
Gender: male

Re: Not so Independents
Reply #46 - Mar 21^st, 2014 at 8:39pm

Lobo wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 8:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 7:51pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 6:29pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 5:55pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 5:41pm:

Independents should back good policy not either major party.....That would ensure we get the best result from a hung Parliament!!!

how about we try something novel and expect independents to reflect the wishes of voters? I see a lot or argument on here over policy but virtually no discussion about voters getting what they want.

By voting for an Independent voters have rejected the major parties....I fail to see any validity to your argument as usual!!!

Roll Eyes

why do u say that? that is a presumption. It has some basis but it remains a presumption since most independents are known to be aligned ideologically to one or other party's general position. or did you miss the massive voter backlash against oakeshot and windsor after they voted in defiance of their electorates wishes?

Isn't this a presumption??

Or do you have a list of all independents and their political alignment???

Only voters can swing depending on policies, not politicians, and they never cross the floor if they are in a party. It's a well known fact!

Back to top

IP Logged

philperth2010

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20481
Perth
Gender: male

Re: Not so Independents
Reply #47 - Mar 21^st, 2014 at 8:53pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 7:51pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 6:29pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 5:55pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 5:41pm:

Independents should back good policy not either major party.....That would ensure we get the best result from a hung Parliament!!!

how about we try something novel and expect independents to reflect the wishes of voters? I see a lot or argument on here over policy but virtually no discussion about voters getting what they want.

By voting for an Independent voters have rejected the major parties....I fail to see any validity to your argument as usual!!!

Roll Eyes

why do u say that? that is a presumption. It has some basis but it remains a presumption since most independents are known to be aligned ideologically to one or other party's general position. or did you miss the massive voter backlash against oakeshot and windsor after they voted in defiance of their electorates wishes?

Independent!!!

Roll Eyes

The strongest principle of growth lies in human choice.
George Eliot (1819 - 1880)

Back to top

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Not so Independents
Reply #48 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 8:35am

Lobo wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 8:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 7:51pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 6:29pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 5:55pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 5:41pm:

Independents should back good policy not either major party.....That would ensure we get the best result from a hung Parliament!!!

how about we try something novel and expect independents to reflect the wishes of voters? I see a lot or argument on here over policy but virtually no discussion about voters getting what they want.

By voting for an Independent voters have rejected the major parties....I fail to see any validity to your argument as usual!!!

Roll Eyes

why do u say that? that is a presumption. It has some basis but it remains a presumption since most independents are known to be aligned ideologically to one or other party's general position. or did you miss the massive voter backlash against oakeshot and windsor after they voted in defiance of their electorates wishes?

Isn't this a presumption??

Or do you have a list of all independents and their political alignment???

an independent is in fact no such thing. the vast majority are actually ideologically aligned and their electorate knows it. why do you think an ex lib stands as an independent in a former liberal stronghold. do you think that electorate suddenly supports labor??? Windsor and oakshot stood in massively conservative voting electorates and please don't try and deny that.

Independent means 'independent from political parties' not independent from political ideology and position.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

skippy.

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 20882
Gender: male

Re: Not so Independents
Reply #49 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 8:38am

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 8:35am:

Lobo wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 8:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 7:51pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 6:29pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 5:55pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 5:41pm:

Independents should back good policy not either major party.....That would ensure we get the best result from a hung Parliament!!!

how about we try something novel and expect independents to reflect the wishes of voters? I see a lot or argument on here over policy but virtually no discussion about voters getting what they want.

By voting for an Independent voters have rejected the major parties....I fail to see any validity to your argument as usual!!!

Roll Eyes

why do u say that? that is a presumption. It has some basis but it remains a presumption since most independents are known to be aligned ideologically to one or other party's general position. or did you miss the massive voter backlash against oakeshot and windsor after they voted in defiance of their electorates wishes?

Isn't this a presumption??

Or do you have a list of all independents and their political alignment???

an independent is in fact no such thing. the vast majority are actually ideologically aligned and their electorate knows it. why do you think an ex lib stands as an independent in a former liberal stronghold. do you think that electorate suddenly supports labor??? Windsor and oakshot stood in massively conservative voting electorates and please don't try and deny that.

Independent means 'independent from political parties' not independent from political ideology and position.

So by saying that you're saying once a person leaves a particular party they should never stand again for office.

Back to top

freedivers other forum- POLITICAL ANIMAL
Click onWWW below

IP Logged

St George of the Garden

Gold Member

Offline

http://tinyurl.com/n
3o8m2x

Posts: 9809
Gender: male

Re: Not so Independents
Reply #50 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 8:42am

I am just enjoying the whining from the rightarded.

Hmmm Oaky and Windsor didn’t so much get a huge electoral backlash—both would have won last year had they stood—as a campaign of hate.

An independent is. . .independent. Votes as he decides. This crap about “conservative seats” doesn’t wash—the voters elected Independents not cnservatives!

Back to top

I want Muso as GMod. Bring back Muso!

Friends of the National Broadband Network

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Not so Independents
Reply #51 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 9:12am

skippy. wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 8:38am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 8:35am:

Lobo wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 8:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 7:51pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 6:29pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 5:55pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 5:41pm:

Independents should back good policy not either major party.....That would ensure we get the best result from a hung Parliament!!!

how about we try something novel and expect independents to reflect the wishes of voters? I see a lot or argument on here over policy but virtually no discussion about voters getting what they want.

By voting for an Independent voters have rejected the major parties....I fail to see any validity to your argument as usual!!!

Roll Eyes

why do u say that? that is a presumption. It has some basis but it remains a presumption since most independents are known to be aligned ideologically to one or other party's general position. or did you miss the massive voter backlash against oakeshot and windsor after they voted in defiance of their electorates wishes?

Isn't this a presumption??

Or do you have a list of all independents and their political alignment???

an independent is in fact no such thing. the vast majority are actually ideologically aligned and their electorate knows it. why do you think an ex lib stands as an independent in a former liberal stronghold. do you think that electorate suddenly supports labor??? Windsor and oakshot stood in massively conservative voting electorates and please don't try and deny that.

Independent means 'independent from political parties' not independent from political ideology and position.

So by saying that you're saying once a person leaves a particular party they should never stand again for office.

are you normally this obtuse????

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Not so Independents
Reply #52 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 9:13am

St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 8:42am:

I am just enjoying the whining from the rightarded.

Hmmm Oaky and Windsor didn’t so much get a huge electoral backlash—both would have won last year had they stood—as a campaign of hate.

An independent is. . .independent. Votes as he decides. This crap about “conservative seats” doesn’t wash—the voters elected Independents not cnservatives!

are you normally this obtuse??? they didn't stand because polling in their electorates showed them on the back end of a thrashing. Oakshotts swing was 34% AGAINST. Windsors was similarly huge.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

St George of the Garden Gold Member Offline http://tinyurl.com/n 3o8m2x Posts: 9809 Gender:	Re: Not so Independents Reply #53 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 9:14am Nah, not by the time of the 2013 election.
Back to top	I want Muso as GMod. Bring back Muso! IP Logged

longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: Not so Independents Reply #54 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 9:26am St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 9:14am: Nah, not by the time of the 2013 election. wrong again. that poll was in 2013. Or have you wondered why the nats retained both seats in a landslide??? idiot.
Back to top	AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..." IP Logged

St George of the Garden

Gold Member

Offline

http://tinyurl.com/n
3o8m2x

Posts: 9809
Gender: male

Re: Not so Independents
Reply #55 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 9:33am

Without a good Indie the seats elected Nats as expected.

Have you any idea of the money Oaky got for his electorate? A long long list of works, roads, bridges and so on.

Peter Andren was another ex–Nats Indie in Calare. A brilliant bloke, became disgusted with the Nats. Unfortunately he died just before the 2007 election. I don’t even know the name of the numpty that the Nats put into Calare and he would have achieved sod all for Calare I bet.

Andren, Oakeshotte and Windsor were and are principled men of sound intellect. We need more like them and I am sure the Nats will keep pissing off people of intellect and principle in their ranks.

Back to top

I want Muso as GMod. Bring back Muso!

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Not so Independents
Reply #56 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 10:29am

St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 9:33am:

Without a good Indie the seats elected Nats as expected.

Have you any idea of the money Oaky got for his electorate? A long long list of works, roads, bridges and so on.

Peter Andren was another ex–Nats Indie in Calare. A brilliant bloke, became disgusted with the Nats. Unfortunately he died just before the 2007 election. I don’t even know the name of the numpty that the Nats put into Calare and he would have achieved sod all for Calare I bet.

Andren, Oakeshotte and Windsor were and are principled men of sound intellect. We need more like them and I am sure the Nats will keep pissing off people of intellect and principle in their ranks.

all paid for by money that was denied to OTHER electorates. Bribery and extortion is not something we should be extolling - even for a simian like you.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

Bam

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male

Re: Not so Independents
Reply #57 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 10:41am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 12:47pm:

Swagman wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 12:41pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 12:27pm:

n effect what you are really saying then is that independents should not be independent

Well that's essentially what they are doing after the election if recent elections are a guide, so why not be up front about it?

Phemanderac wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 12:27pm:

Yet another big flaw with Representative Democracy (or minimalist democracy) reveals itself...

Yes it does.

No they aren't. They only guarantee supply, they don't guarantee a no questions asked vote on every legislation.

This is the key point here - also confidence. Confidence and supply is all that the independents would guarantee.

Back to top

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

IP Logged

Bam

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male

Re: Not so Independents
Reply #58 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 10:56am

St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 9:33am:

Without a good Indie the seats elected Nats as expected.

Have you any idea of the money Oaky got for his electorate? A long long list of works, roads, bridges and so on.

Peter Andren was another ex–Nats Indie in Calare. A brilliant bloke, became disgusted with the Nats. Unfortunately he died just before the 2007 election. I don’t even know the name of the numpty that the Nats put into Calare and he would have achieved sod all for Calare I bet.

Andren, Oakeshotte and Windsor were and are principled men of sound intellect. We need more like them and I am sure the Nats will keep pissing off people of intellect and principle in their ranks.

Do not forget Ted Mack.

He is the only person who has ever been elected and re-elected as an independent at local, state and federal level. He is the only non-conservative politician ever to hold the seat of North Sydney, a seat that has been in existence since Federation. Joe Hockey won the seat after Mack quit politics.

He quit his seat - at both state and federal level - just before he was to become eligible to receive a Parliamentary pension just so he wouldn't get it. He didn't want it. He wasn't in it for the money.

Only once in the 40 years before Ted Mack was elected to the Federal Parliament was someone elected to the House in Federal Parliament who was not a member of a major party. There has not been an election since where the House in Federal Parliament has not had at least one independent or minor party member.

Back to top

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Not so Independents
Reply #59 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 11:00am

Bam wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 10:56am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 9:33am:

Without a good Indie the seats elected Nats as expected.

Have you any idea of the money Oaky got for his electorate? A long long list of works, roads, bridges and so on.

Peter Andren was another ex–Nats Indie in Calare. A brilliant bloke, became disgusted with the Nats. Unfortunately he died just before the 2007 election. I don’t even know the name of the numpty that the Nats put into Calare and he would have achieved sod all for Calare I bet.

Andren, Oakeshotte and Windsor were and are principled men of sound intellect. We need more like them and I am sure the Nats will keep pissing off people of intellect and principle in their ranks.

Do not forget Ted Mack.

He is the only person who has ever been elected and re-elected as an independent at local, state and federal level. He is the only non-conservative politician ever to hold the seat of North Sydney, a seat that has been in existence since Federation. Joe Hockey won the seat after Mack quit politics.

He quit his seat - at both state and federal level - just before he was to become eligible to receive a Parliamentary pension just so he wouldn't get it. He didn't want it. He wasn't in it for the money.

Only once in the 40 years before Ted Mack was elected to the Federal Parliament was someone elected to the House in Federal Parliament who was not a member of a major party. There has not been an election since where the House in Federal Parliament has not had at least one independent or minor party member.

Ted MAck was a good man and nothing like the average indie. Resigning the day before qualifying for a parliamentary pension still sounds like a foolish act however.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

Poll
Question: Inds to declare who they would support before election
NO Left Voter 1 (5.0%) NO Right Voter 0 (0.0%) YES - Left Voter 1 (5.0%) YES - Right Voter 5 (25.0%) Defeats being Independent 13 (65.0%) Total votes: 20 « Created by: Swagman on: Mar 21^st, 2014 at 8:43am »