Australian Politics Forum - Not so Independents

Lobo

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Re: Not so Independents
Reply #75 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 7:35pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 8:35am:

Lobo wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 8:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 7:51pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 6:29pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 5:55pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2014 at 5:41pm:

Independents should back good policy not either major party.....That would ensure we get the best result from a hung Parliament!!!

how about we try something novel and expect independents to reflect the wishes of voters? I see a lot or argument on here over policy but virtually no discussion about voters getting what they want.

By voting for an Independent voters have rejected the major parties....I fail to see any validity to your argument as usual!!!

Roll Eyes

why do u say that? that is a presumption. It has some basis but it remains a presumption since most independents are known to be aligned ideologically to one or other party's general position. or did you miss the massive voter backlash against oakeshot and windsor after they voted in defiance of their electorates wishes?

Isn't this a presumption??

Or do you have a list of all independents and their political alignment???

an independent is in fact no such thing. the vast majority are actually ideologically aligned and their electorate knows it. why do you think an ex lib stands as an independent in a former liberal stronghold. do you think that electorate suddenly supports labor??? Windsor and oakshot stood in massively conservative voting electorates and please don't try and deny that.

Independent means 'independent from political parties' not independent from political ideology and position.

All you have is two people that you keep coming back to time and time again.

The fact that neither of these ran in the election you are referring to seems to drift right over your head.

Even Bill Hayden's 'drover's dog' would have had a large swing to it due to a lot of voters only being able to digest 3-word slogans.

IF Oakeshott and Windsor had run at that election you may, just may, have a point.

BUT, they didn't, so we will never know.
Regardless of what you seem to believe, what you are positing regarding the two is nothing but pure conjecture.

Having sorted that out, could you now post a list of ALL past independents and their political alignment.

Also, posting a full list of same one month out from the next Federal election would be a great help to those wishing to cast their vote with some accuracy.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Not so Independents Reply #76 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 7:36pm Hate to tell you this Bam, but Windsor also hated the Nats and probably other Libs... he is a bitter and twisted old man. No way was he ever going to support the Coalition. Turnbull will probably never lead it after his last fiasco. He should quit and join Labor his natural fit...
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St George of the Garden Gold Member Offline http://tinyurl.com/n 3o8m2x Posts: 9809 Gender:	Re: Not so Independents Reply #77 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 7:43pm The way the Nats treated Windsor may have something to with that. Two sides to every story doncha know.
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Bam

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Re: Not so Independents
Reply #78 - Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 9:25pm

Grendel wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 7:36pm:

Hate to tell you this Bam, but Windsor also hated the Nats and probably other Libs... he is a bitter and twisted old man.

If that's the case, the Nationals must really have done something to pss him off. I doubt it's all of his own making. Don't forget too that he took on Nationals at elections and defeated them more than once.

Quote:

No way was he ever going to support the Coalition.
Turnbull will probably never lead it after his last fiasco. He should quit and join Labor his natural fit...

Turnbull is probably a "wet". Don't confuse Liberal party factionalism with being a natural fit for Labor. Turnbull's closer to the Liberal party ideology of Menzies than the dry-infested party that the Liberals have become.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Not so Independents Reply #79 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 7:57pm St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 7:43pm: The way the Nats treated Windsor may have something to with that. Two sides to every story doncha know. Oh yes, and I know what happened... do you? Like I said a bitter and twisted old man.
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St George of the Garden Gold Member Offline http://tinyurl.com/n 3o8m2x Posts: 9809 Gender:	Re: Not so Independents Reply #80 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 8:01pm Windsor and Oaky were gems in the previous Parliament. Disagree “bitter and twisted” didn’t behave like that—didn’t reveal that conversation with the simian he recorded on his mobile phone for example. Brock is going to support Labor in SA. Such is going to hospital for an operation—I said he was a fence sitter.
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Lobo

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Re: Not so Independents
Reply #81 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 8:20pm

Longy appears to have gone MIA.

Would this be the reason?? Wink

Quote:

South Australia has avoided a constitutional crisis and the potential of a fresh election with independent MP Geoff Brock delivering Labor the numbers to form a minority government.

Labor will be returned for a fourth term thanks to Mr Brock's support which ends a week of uncertainty after the March 15 poll returned a hung parliament.

Premier Jay Weatherill says the regional MP's decision offers the state security and stability for the next four years.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/sa/a/22121477/labor-to-retain-power-in-south-australia/

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Lobo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7407 Sydney Gender:	Re: Not so Independents Reply #82 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 8:23pm And what about this wanker??? Quote: Opposition Leader Steven Marshall says Labor cannot argue that it has a mandate to govern. Just when did Labor claim a mandate???
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Grendel

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Re: Not so Independents
Reply #83 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 8:30pm

Bam wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 9:25pm:

Grendel wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2014 at 7:36pm:

Hate to tell you this Bam, but Windsor also hated the Nats and probably other Libs... he is a bitter and twisted old man.

If that's the case, the Nationals must really have done something to pss him off. I doubt it's all of his own making. Don't forget too that he took on Nationals at elections and defeated them more than once.

Quote:

No way was he ever going to support the Coalition.
Turnbull will probably never lead it after his last fiasco. He should quit and join Labor his natural fit...

Turnbull is probably a "wet". Don't confuse Liberal party factionalism with being a natural fit for Labor. Turnbull's closer to the Liberal party ideology of Menzies than the dry-infested party that the Liberals have become.

Windsor is just a bitter and twisted old man. Don't for one minute hold him up to Andren or Mack.
Turnbull? I'm not confused he already tried to join the ALP in the past. He's a progressive, the ALP apparently are the progressive party these days he should be their leader. Roll Eyes

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St George of the Garden

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Re: Not so Independents
Reply #84 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 8:31pm

It is all about seats not mandates.

That said, I would be happy if some form of multi member seats was worked out.

Pragmatically—I am glad there is some sort of protection from the simian and shambles and a half way rational, competent state govt. Barnett in WA is plainly incompetent: despite a 700+% hike in utility fees, despite a huge mining boom Barnett has a huge Budget deficit! In the NT the LCL is splintering, in Qld Newman has psychological problems, little man syndrome, Barry O’Farrell is not too bad but crap like letting hunters hunt in National Parks to get the Shooters onside is crap, in Victoria the Libs are hopeless, splitting, worrying about abortion rather than jobs and in Tas the new govt is way unready for govt.

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Grendel

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Re: Not so Independents
Reply #85 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 8:34pm

St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 8:01pm:

Windsor and Oaky were gems in the previous Parliament. Disagree “bitter and twisted” didn’t behave like that—didn’t reveal that conversation with the simian he recorded on his mobile phone for example.

Brock is going to support Labor in SA. Such is going to hospital for an operation—I said he was a fence sitter.

Gems? Of what? certainly not wisdom. They betrayed their conservative electorates.

Why would you expect Brock to do any different, he used to work at port pirie. I doubt he'd ever swing Liberal.

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skippy. Gold Member Offline Posts: 20882 Gender:	Re: Not so Independents Reply #86 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 8:52pm I love to see the conga line so bitter, like sugar in my tea.
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St George of the Garden

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Re: Not so Independents
Reply #87 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 9:02pm

skippy. wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 8:52pm:

I love to see the conga line so bitter, like sugar in my tea. Grin

Me too!

I emailed both Oaky and Windsor in the run up to the last election saying they had been gems of the Parliament and men of integrity and intelligence. Hopefully made up in a tiny way for the hate they unjustly got.

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Grendel

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Re: Not so Independents
Reply #88 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 9:57pm

St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 8:31pm:

It is all about seats not mandates.

That said, I would be happy if some form of multi member seats was worked out.

Pragmatically—I am glad there is some sort of protection from the simian and shambles and a half way rational, competent state govt. Barnett in WA is plainly incompetent: despite a 700+% hike in utility fees, despite a huge mining boom Barnett has a huge Budget deficit! In the NT the LCL is splintering, in Qld Newman has psychological problems, little man syndrome, Barry O’Farrell is not too bad but crap like letting hunters hunt in National Parks to get the Shooters onside is crap, in Victoria the Libs are hopeless, splitting, worrying about abortion rather than jobs and in Tas the new govt is way unready for govt.

You see this is what I mean re your troubles with the truth... where is it?

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St George of the Garden Gold Member Offline http://tinyurl.com/n 3o8m2x Posts: 9809 Gender:	Re: Not so Independents Reply #89 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 10:33pm Where is what?
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Poll
Question: Inds to declare who they would support before election
NO Left Voter 1 (5.0%) NO Right Voter 0 (0.0%) YES - Left Voter 1 (5.0%) YES - Right Voter 5 (25.0%) Defeats being Independent 13 (65.0%) Total votes: 20 « Created by: Swagman on: Mar 21^st, 2014 at 8:43am »