freediver wrote on Mar 26
th, 2014 at 12:42pm:
Sure. Likewise, just because a Nazi believes in Nazism doesn't mean we should think any less of them. We should patiently listen to all the apologetics and justifications they offer for wanting to eradicate Jews.
Gandalf pulled out the same crap in response to revelations that most Malaysian Muslims want the death penalty for apostasy and stoning people to death for adultery. Not sure what vapid point you are trying to make. Should we focus on whether a Nazi eats cornflakes for breakfast rather than their political views?
No doubt this will sound 'limp-wristed' to you, but what/who exactly is a Nazi? Is a Nazi simply the leadership group and members who truly believed? Does it include those who were forced to be members, those who chose to be members rather than risk their lives, those that became members so they would be left alone to get on with their lives?
If so, for example, former Pope Benedict like other German children at the time were forced to become members of the Hitler Youth ie young Nazis. Therefore is this man a Nazi? Or what about Heinrich Harrer who was a member of the Nazi party so he could be left alone to pursue his mountaineering and was then trapped in Tibet during the war. Where he met and influenced the young, current Dalai Lama. By his own admission he was a self-centred prat who only thought of himself. But if we apply the your suggestion that Nazism, like Islam is evil/wrong and to join it means that a person is either evil, brainwashed or stupid and therefore fully responsible for all actions committed - does it make these people totally morally culpable for the actions of people such as Hitler, Goebels, Himmler etc.
Quote:Muhammed once executed 800 Jewish POWs in one day. Gandalf likes to explain that this is OK because they were a monolithic entity who were all responsible for the crimes of a few. Calling bullshit is not silencing someone. Chopping their head off is. What you criticise us for is actually at the core of Islam.
I believe my point stands - why do Muslims today have to be accountable for this action? I disagree with what happened, I think it was wrong. But an unfortunate factor is that we can apply our moral standards to historical events - and I don't think it is wrong that you have in this case - but we have to realise people operated within different moral codes and different circumstances. I would suggest if Mohammed was simply pure evil he would have killed these Jewish people when they first came into contact. That didn't happen.
Either through fear or paranoia it was believed that they betrayed the population to the forces wanting to recapture the place (I don't know whether that is true or not - even if it was true it was still wrong to do it). Something may be totally wrong but there is a difference between wrong actions based on pure evil intent and wrong actions based on fear, self-preservation, paranoia, circumstance or stupidity.
Quote: No I wouldn't. I am perfectly capable of sharing my views and I don't need to pre-empt them with layers of limp-wristed apologetic nonsense in the hope people will respect my views regardless of what they are...
So we should self censor so as not to upset the spineless apologists and turn them into terrorists?
It is a smidge ironic that you suggest that because I have given your views respect by responding to them - in what I believe has been a fairly respectful manner - that I am somehow trying to censor you. Telling you to go away, insulting or trolling you would be just that, but instead I am engaging with you. However despite putting some effort into my posts to attempt to explain why I disagree with the views of several members, all I have got in return is being labelled as "limp wristed" and in a later post to from you replying to Gandalf:
Quote:Clyne's argument is stupid
I am not pointing this out due to being mortally wounded. But rather to question why engaging with you instead of accepting your arguments is regarded as an attempt to censor you, whereas, I would respectfully suggest, by simply calling my arguments stupid is to suggest I have in no way thought long and hard about my opinions and that they are not worthwhile to engage.
Forum
Pages: 
