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NSW govt freezes CSG exploration (Read 8238 times)
Grendel
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Re: NSW govt freezes CSG exploration
Reply #45 - Mar 29th, 2014 at 8:15am  
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Re: NSW govt freezes CSG exploration
Reply #46 - Mar 29th, 2014 at 8:16am  
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Re: NSW govt freezes CSG exploration
Reply #47 - Mar 29th, 2014 at 8:16am  
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 8:03am:
I'm not Accountant.
I am Finance.

Accounting do the SEC reporting ad financial statements for SOX etc.
Finance do the forward planning, we are the business partners, we roll the capex forecasts, we advise on profit based decisions.

Finance cannot do the job without intrinsically knowing the business.

That would apply to anyone in the profession. To distinguish them - finance handles money in the future, accounting handles money in the past.

Quote:
Gas fracking is the future of energy supplementing for the next decades.
Trust me. The profits are good.

We don't trust you. You are paid by the industry. You talk up the profits and handwave away the risks.
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Grendel
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Re: NSW govt freezes CSG exploration
Reply #48 - Mar 29th, 2014 at 8:18am  
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Re: NSW govt freezes CSG exploration
Reply #49 - Mar 29th, 2014 at 9:29am  
Grendel wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 8:10am:
Hicks...  offshore drilling is not the same as onshore drilling in a country which is the most arid populated one in the world and which depends on its aquifers for water now and into the future.

This is the essential point. We rely on aquifers for a lot of our water, especially in the arid parts of our country where it is the only reliable water supply. If anyone's doing CSG exploration in the Great Artesian Basin or its catchments, they should be taken out the back and shot. We can't afford to have such an important aquifer rendered unusable in whole or in part.

Quote:
We've already had an accident which has made an important aquifer non viable.  It took an accident to get them to stop this crap before too much damage gets done.  It's probably too late for Qld they're an accident waiting to happen.

Liability is far too lax and the penalties far too low. Contaminating an aquifer merits a $1500 fine and no commitment to undo the damage? That penalty is jaw-dropping in its inadequacy. Add three zeroes to the end of that fine and make the company pay for an alternative water supply to the affected people until the aquifer is safe again, then the penalty would be adequate.

Quote:
Motivation for the industry GREED....  they lie about the need for gas and new sources...  they are flogging our gas off at low prices to China etc and depleting our reserves not using it for us and our future.

Another problem is that this industry greed is forcing up gas prices due to an industry desire to make Australians pay world market prices for gas. This is not necessary. Oil-rich countries usually have very cheap fuel - fillling up your car in Venezuela or Saudi Arabia is a lot cheaper than here.

Quote:
Due to the parlous state of the NSW books labor and this government have allowed themselves to be scammed in hopes of a financial windfall.  They saw this as a way out of those difficulties, the goose that laid the golden egg.  Problem is this goose is pooing in our water.

It's not an exclusive problem of NSW Labor. Both sides of politics are complicit in allowing CSG free reign.
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Bobby.
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Re: NSW govt freezes CSG exploration
Reply #50 - Mar 29th, 2014 at 9:42am  
It's already banned in France -

they don't want their underground water polluted for ever.
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Re: NSW govt freezes CSG exploration
Reply #51 - Mar 29th, 2014 at 7:38pm  
FARMERS RALLY AGAINST MINERS
...
http://broelman.wordpress.com/2014/03/22/farmers-rally-against-miners/
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Grendel
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Re: NSW govt freezes CSG exploration
Reply #52 - Mar 29th, 2014 at 9:34pm  
Bam wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 9:29am:
Grendel wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 8:10am:
Hicks...  offshore drilling is not the same as onshore drilling in a country which is the most arid populated one in the world and which depends on its aquifers for water now and into the future.

This is the essential point. We rely on aquifers for a lot of our water, especially in the arid parts of our country where it is the only reliable water supply. If anyone's doing CSG exploration in the Great Artesian Basin or its catchments, they should be taken out the back and shot. We can't afford to have such an important aquifer rendered unusable in whole or in part.

Quote:
We've already had an accident which has made an important aquifer non viable.  It took an accident to get them to stop this crap before too much damage gets done.  It's probably too late for Qld they're an accident waiting to happen.

Liability is far too lax and the penalties far too low. Contaminating an aquifer merits a $1500 fine and no commitment to undo the damage? That penalty is jaw-dropping in its inadequacy. Add three zeroes to the end of that fine and make the company pay for an alternative water supply to the affected people until the aquifer is safe again, then the penalty would be adequate.

Quote:
Motivation for the industry GREED....  they lie about the need for gas and new sources...  they are flogging our gas off at low prices to China etc and depleting our reserves not using it for us and our future.

Another problem is that this industry greed is forcing up gas prices due to an industry desire to make Australians pay world market prices for gas. This is not necessary. Oil-rich countries usually have very cheap fuel - fillling up your car in Venezuela or Saudi Arabia is a lot cheaper than here.

Quote:
Due to the parlous state of the NSW books labor and this government have allowed themselves to be scammed in hopes of a financial windfall.  They saw this as a way out of those difficulties, the goose that laid the golden egg.  Problem is this goose is pooing in our water.

It's not an exclusive problem of NSW Labor. Both sides of politics are complicit in allowing CSG free reign.
perhaps you need a holiday or an eye test...  I'm sure I can see this government mentioned above.
Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Bam
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Re: NSW govt freezes CSG exploration
Reply #53 - Mar 30th, 2014 at 8:51am  
Grendel wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 9:34pm:
Bam wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 9:29am:
Grendel wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 8:10am:
Hicks...  offshore drilling is not the same as onshore drilling in a country which is the most arid populated one in the world and which depends on its aquifers for water now and into the future.

This is the essential point. We rely on aquifers for a lot of our water, especially in the arid parts of our country where it is the only reliable water supply. If anyone's doing CSG exploration in the Great Artesian Basin or its catchments, they should be taken out the back and shot. We can't afford to have such an important aquifer rendered unusable in whole or in part.

Quote:
We've already had an accident which has made an important aquifer non viable.  It took an accident to get them to stop this crap before too much damage gets done.  It's probably too late for Qld they're an accident waiting to happen.

Liability is far too lax and the penalties far too low. Contaminating an aquifer merits a $1500 fine and no commitment to undo the damage? That penalty is jaw-dropping in its inadequacy. Add three zeroes to the end of that fine and make the company pay for an alternative water supply to the affected people until the aquifer is safe again, then the penalty would be adequate.

Quote:
Motivation for the industry GREED....  they lie about the need for gas and new sources...  they are flogging our gas off at low prices to China etc and depleting our reserves not using it for us and our future.

Another problem is that this industry greed is forcing up gas prices due to an industry desire to make Australians pay world market prices for gas. This is not necessary. Oil-rich countries usually have very cheap fuel - fillling up your car in Venezuela or Saudi Arabia is a lot cheaper than here.

Quote:
Due to the parlous state of the NSW books labor and this government have allowed themselves to be scammed in hopes of a financial windfall.  They saw this as a way out of those difficulties, the goose that laid the golden egg.  Problem is this goose is pooing in our water.

It's not an exclusive problem of NSW Labor. Both sides of politics are complicit in allowing CSG free reign.
perhaps you need a holiday or an eye test...  I'm sure I can see this government mentioned above.
Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


It's happening all over the country, supported by both sides of politics. That was the intent of my statement. CSG Limited donates to both Liberal and Labor.
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Grendel
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Re: NSW govt freezes CSG exploration
Reply #54 - Mar 30th, 2014 at 10:32am  
Bam wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 8:51am:
Grendel wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 9:34pm:
Bam wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 9:29am:
Grendel wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 8:10am:
Hicks...  offshore drilling is not the same as onshore drilling in a country which is the most arid populated one in the world and which depends on its aquifers for water now and into the future.

This is the essential point. We rely on aquifers for a lot of our water, especially in the arid parts of our country where it is the only reliable water supply. If anyone's doing CSG exploration in the Great Artesian Basin or its catchments, they should be taken out the back and shot. We can't afford to have such an important aquifer rendered unusable in whole or in part.

Quote:
We've already had an accident which has made an important aquifer non viable.  It took an accident to get them to stop this crap before too much damage gets done.  It's probably too late for Qld they're an accident waiting to happen.

Liability is far too lax and the penalties far too low. Contaminating an aquifer merits a $1500 fine and no commitment to undo the damage? That penalty is jaw-dropping in its inadequacy. Add three zeroes to the end of that fine and make the company pay for an alternative water supply to the affected people until the aquifer is safe again, then the penalty would be adequate.

Quote:
Motivation for the industry GREED....  they lie about the need for gas and new sources...  they are flogging our gas off at low prices to China etc and depleting our reserves not using it for us and our future.

Another problem is that this industry greed is forcing up gas prices due to an industry desire to make Australians pay world market prices for gas. This is not necessary. Oil-rich countries usually have very cheap fuel - fillling up your car in Venezuela or Saudi Arabia is a lot cheaper than here.

Quote:
Due to the parlous state of the NSW books labor and this government have allowed themselves to be scammed in hopes of a financial windfall.  They saw this as a way out of those difficulties, the goose that laid the golden egg.  Problem is this goose is pooing in our water.

It's not an exclusive problem of NSW Labor. Both sides of politics are complicit in allowing CSG free reign.
perhaps you need a holiday or an eye test...  I'm sure I can see this government mentioned above.
Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


It's happening all over the country, supported by both sides of politics. That was the intent of my statement. CSG Limited donates to both Liberal and Labor.

Good grief...  My comment was about NSW, I'd already mentioned QLD, and they are the 2 main states involved, my comment included both sides of politics, I'm dubious about your intent, "CSG Limited" is a print and communications company...  btw in both cases the major culprit has been the state Labor governments who let them get their foot in the door.
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Bam
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Re: NSW govt freezes CSG exploration
Reply #55 - Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:45am  
Grendel wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 10:32am:
Good grief...  My comment was about NSW, I'd already mentioned QLD, and they are the 2 main states involved, my comment included both sides of politics, I'm dubious about your intent, "CSG Limited" is a print and communications company...

You appear to be correct with the print company as far as ASIC registration is concerned, but it is not that simple.

The trouble with companies with three letters in their name is that it is so easy to confuse them. There's multiple companies called "CSG Limited" around the world. The one in Aberdeen is a cleaning company, then there's Credit Suisse Group.

The AFR paywall made it appear that CSG Limited was a coal seam gas company, but the AFR paywall made that unclear. Damn paywall, otherwise I would have spotted the error sooner. Good catch on your part.

Quote:
btw in both cases the major culprit has been the state Labor governments who let them get their foot in the door.

That is more an accident of history than any other cause. In 2007 when Howard lost office, how many Coalition state and territory governments were there around the country? None. Who's to say that the government of the day weren't conned by a business with a slick marketing presentation? It's not like it hasn't happened before with governments on both sides of politics.
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: NSW govt freezes CSG exploration
Reply #56 - Mar 30th, 2014 at 5:22pm  
Bobby. wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 9:42am:
It's already banned in France -

they don't want their underground water polluted for ever.


It's not permanently banned but rather delayed.
The industry is pretty much agreed though unofficially that no cracked energy will be supplied to France until they approve it.
Their resulting higher consumer prices may force them to re think.
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Setanta
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Re: NSW govt freezes CSG exploration
Reply #57 - Mar 30th, 2014 at 7:43pm  
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 5:22pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 9:42am:
It's already banned in France -

they don't want their underground water polluted for ever.


It's not permanently banned but rather delayed.
The industry is pretty much agreed though unofficially that no cracked energy will be supplied to France until they approve it.
Their resulting higher consumer prices may force them to re think.


Nothing wrong with a bit of good old fashioned blackmail. Roll Eyes

http://www.gasfieldfreebyronshire.org/news/bentley/bentley-rolling-updates-from-...
Quote:
Nan Nicholson describes the general feeling among the Bentley village residents as outrage. They are more understanding that the one exploratory well is just the thin end of a wedge, and the totality of a gasfield is something far far bigger and with huge impact. They were told a half-truth by Metgasco about natural gas, and led to believe that fracking would not be involved, but Metgasco is also looking for tight gas, which would have to be fracked. The farmer whose land Metgasco is on, Robbie Graham, was specifically misled to expect a single well and no social objections! The farmer whose land the camp “Liberty” is on, Mr Scarabelotti, has experienced of the gasfield round Roma, QLD, and is now totally opposed to them. In general terms the public has been misled particularly re jobs, how many gained short-term by non-locals, how many lost permanently by locals.
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: NSW govt freezes CSG exploration
Reply #58 - Mar 30th, 2014 at 7:58pm  
It's not blackmail.
France is perfectly entitled to choose how it approves energy sourcing.

If they choose to ignore a source which has passed regulatory standards in 23 other developed world nations that's it's lookout.

However therefore it does not get the benefits from an energy source fracked elsewhere.
Their energy prices as a result will need to rise.
Their choice.
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Re: NSW govt freezes CSG exploration
Reply #59 - Mar 30th, 2014 at 8:11pm  
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 7:58pm:
It's not blackmail.
France is perfectly entitled to choose how it approves energy sourcing.

If they choose to ignore a source which has passed regulatory standards in 23 other developed world nations that's it's lookout.

However therefore it does not get the benefits from an energy source fracked elsewhere.
Their energy prices as a result will need to rise.
Their choice.


France will get the gas if they are willing to pay, end of story.
Spin whatever you want and no doubt until push comes to shove your argument will stand but in the end CSG is fracked for profit and for profit it will be sold.
When have morals or bans ever stood in the way of a $$ especially in the oil and gas sector.

The same argument is being run in Australia, frack or pay more.
However I heard on an interview most of the proposed gas wll be exported rather than used to lower or at least maintain current prices.

Frankly if we are going to pay more regardless it should be in taxation to fund renewables.
Don't come back with governments blah blah & business should stand on its own blah blah, most if not all buisness that benefits the country have been at least at first sponsord by governments.

Here's the presser, by all means refute the points but give it a bit more thought than just "look who wrote it"

http://zeroemissions.org.au/media/releases/nsw-gas-crisis-fabricated-myth-export...
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