Australian Politics Forum - People smugglers choosing new routes, strategies

Rhet-Oracle Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 408	Re: People smugglers choosing new routes, strategies Reply #30 - Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:00pm They are illegal border transgressors, they are not asylum seekers because you say they are. They are country shoppers who thought they would get what they want by paying people smugglers to gain ILLEGAL entry. End of.
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Big Dave

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Re: People smugglers choosing new routes, strategies
Reply #31 - Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:06pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 11:56am:

Big Dave wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 11:48am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 11:43am:

Big Dave wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 11:35am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 11:31am:

Rider wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 11:25am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 11:07am:

Rhet-Oracle wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 11:00am:

So have any illegals entered the country by travelling inside containers to get here, or is this just another ABC article based on their bias, and which the weak minded on this forum are happy to post for want of something more substantial and real to worry about?

"Illegals" come by plane.

Overstaying a Visa is a totally different issue. Any 'illegal' who comes by plane is turned around at the airport and 'towed back' via air Grin

Incorrect.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/illegal-immigrants-arrive-by-plane/story-e6fr...

Visa overstayers are illegal immigrants, or, "illegals" as some like to call them.

Asylum seekers are niether illegal, nor immigrants.

If the plane option is better then why are they risking death by coming in a clapped out overcrowded boat??

They don't need a passport or visa.

I thought that would have been quite obvious.

They needed it when they flew into Indonesia.

They don't need it to come in a boat and claim asylum in Australia.

What part of that don't you understand?

They don't. That's true. But why throw it overboard???

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greggerypeccary

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Re: People smugglers choosing new routes, strategies
Reply #32 - Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:07pm

Rhet-Oracle wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:00pm:

They are illegal border transgressors, they are not asylum seekers because you say they are. They are country shoppers who thought they would get what they want by paying people smugglers to gain ILLEGAL entry.

End of.

First, they are asylum seekers because they say they are (it has nothing to do with me).

Anybody who says "I claim asylum" is indeed a genuine asylum seeker. They may not, however, turn out to be genuine refugees, but they are most certainly genuine asylum seekers. You seem to have trouble understanding the difference between the two terms.

Secondly, could you please provide a reference to the piece of legislation which says that it is illegal for an asylum seeker to transgress borders (specific section of the act, if you would be so kind).

Cheers.

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Stratos

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Re: People smugglers choosing new routes, strategies
Reply #33 - Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:09pm

Rhet-Oracle wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:00pm:

They are illegal border transgressors, they are not asylum seekers because you say they are

using the services of a people smuggler is not illegal for the purposes of seeking asylum. This is the relevant section from the UN convention on refugees, of which Australia is a signatory

Quote:

1. The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their
illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory
where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of Article1, enter or
are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present
themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their
illegal entry or presence.

Rhet-Oracle wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:00pm:

They are country shoppers who thought they would get what they want by paying people smugglers to gain ILLEGAL entry.

Every bit of actual data points to the fact that the majority of asylum seekers are genuine, and not economic mimgrants. here are several articles which show that the economic migrant comment is completely unsubstantiated.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-14/no-evidence-bob-carr-economic-migrants/482...
http://www.politifact.com.au/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jun/28/bob-carr/are-b...
http://theconversation.com/factcheck-are-asylum-seekers-really-economic-migrants...

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Rider

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Re: People smugglers choosing new routes, strategies
Reply #34 - Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:11pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 11:55am:

Rider wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 11:47am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 11:31am:

Rider wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 11:25am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 11:07am:

Rhet-Oracle wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 11:00am:

So have any illegals entered the country by travelling inside containers to get here, or is this just another ABC article based on their bias, and which the weak minded on this forum are happy to post for want of something more substantial and real to worry about?

"Illegals" come by plane.

Overstaying a Visa is a totally different issue. Any 'illegal' who comes by plane is turned around at the airport and 'towed back' via air Grin

Incorrect.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/illegal-immigrants-arrive-by-plane/story-e6fr...

Visa overstayers are illegal immigrants, or, "illegals" as some like to call them.

Asylum seekers are neither illegal, nor immigrants.

Visa overstayers are Unlawful Non-Citizens - not Illegal Immigrants as they have chosen not to apply for migration, rather they have illegally assumed it - for someone who has been banging on about this for months you should use the correct terminology.

I'm afraid old mate you'll have to stay back for detention this afternoon and write 100 times on the blackboard, "Unlawful Non-Citizens are not the same as Illegal Immigrants"...

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/86overstayers-and-other-unlawful-non-ci...

Illegal immigrants is not the term I use.

You failed to notice that I said "as some like to call them" (some, but not me).

I know exactly what terms are the correct ones, and asylum seekers are neither "illegals" nor "illegal immigrants".

yeah .. nah... you said..
Incorrect.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/illegal-immigrants-arrive-by-plane/story-e6fr...

Visa overstayers are illegal immigrants, or, "illegals" as some like to call them.

Asylum seekers are niether illegal, nor immigrants.

Not sure where seeking a better economic lifestyle meets the criteria for asylum however??? Surely such applicants should be going through valid immigration channels.....call me crazy Cool

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: People smugglers choosing new routes, strategies
Reply #35 - Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:15pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:07pm:

Rhet-Oracle wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:00pm:

They are illegal border transgressors, they are not asylum seekers because you say they are. They are country shoppers who thought they would get what they want by paying people smugglers to gain ILLEGAL entry.

End of.

First, they are asylum seekers because they say they are (it has nothing to do with me).

Anybody who says "I claim asylum" is indeed a genuine asylum seeker. They may not, however, turn out to be genuine refugees, but they are most certainly genuine asylum seekers. You seem to have trouble understanding the difference between the two terms.

Secondly, could you please provide a reference to the piece of legislation which says that it is illegal for an asylum seeker to transgress borders (specific section of the act, if you would be so kind).

Cheers.

If we apply your logic to the real world, Ivan Milat must also be innocent - because he says he is!

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Stratos

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Re: People smugglers choosing new routes, strategies
Reply #36 - Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:16pm

Rider wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:11pm:

Surely such applicants should be going through valid immigration channels.....call me crazy

Another valid question, is why would they NOT try and fly here. It is cheaper, quicker, and waaaay safer. There are many reasons however that refugees may not be able to get their papers in order, such as:

1. Many refugees are fleeing a country where they are a minority group, and are not allowed to get official papers from the government that doesn't like them
2. They are asked to destroy them by people smugglers as a condition of their passage
3. When they are fleeing, it could be dangerous for them to be identified by officials in their own country.
4. They are fleeing and may not have time to get correct papers if possible

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Stratos

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Re: People smugglers choosing new routes, strategies
Reply #37 - Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:18pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:15pm:

If we apply your logic to the real world, Ivan Milat must also be innocent - because he says he is!

You need to look at the definition of "asylum seeker" and see how it is different from "refugee".

An asylum seeker is not necessarily a refugee, is is someone who (massive shock) is seeking asylum. Whether or not they are granted it is entirely another matter.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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King FriYAY II Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2109	Re: People smugglers choosing new routes, strategies Reply #38 - Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:19pm St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 10:41am: So we are going to keep bleeding money stopping people who want to come here. Who craes what "they want"? And are you including all 50,000,000 displaced people around the world?
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Big Dave

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Re: People smugglers choosing new routes, strategies
Reply #39 - Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:19pm

Stratos wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:16pm:

Rider wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:11pm:

Surely such applicants should be going through valid immigration channels.....call me crazy

Another valid question, is why would they NOT try and fly here. It is cheaper, quicker, and waaaay safer. There are many reasons however that refugees may not be able to get their papers in order, such as:

1. Many refugees are fleeing a country where they are a minority group, and are not allowed to get official papers from the government that doesn't like them
2. They are asked to destroy them by people smugglers as a condition of their passage
3. When they are fleeing, it could be dangerous for them to be identified by officials in their own country.
4. They are fleeing and may not have time to get correct papers if possible

Or it's because the government can find out who they actually are. Example Pakistani and not Afghan at all.

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King FriYAY II

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Re: People smugglers choosing new routes, strategies
Reply #40 - Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:25pm

Stratos wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:16pm:

Rider wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:11pm:

Surely such applicants should be going through valid immigration channels.....call me crazy

Another valid question, is why would they NOT try and fly here. It is cheaper, quicker, and waaaay safer. There are many reasons however that refugees may not be able to get their papers in order, such as:

1. Many refugees are fleeing a country where they are a minority group, and are not allowed to get official papers from the government that doesn't like them
2. They are asked to destroy them by people smugglers as a condition of their passage
3. When they are fleeing, it could be dangerous for them to be identified by officials in their own country.
4. They are fleeing and may not have time to get correct papers if possible

Do they walk to Indonesia?

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St George of the Garden

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Re: People smugglers choosing new routes, strategies
Reply #41 - Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:28pm

Rhet-Oracle wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:00pm:

They are illegal border transgressors, they are not asylum seekers because you say they are. They are country shoppers who thought they would get what they want by paying people smugglers to gain ILLEGAL entry.

End of.

Oh god.

There are no other countries in our region who have signed up to the UNHCR. Well, Cambodia has but is dirt poor.

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I want Muso as GMod. Bring back Muso!

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: People smugglers choosing new routes, strategies Reply #42 - Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:42pm King FriYAY II wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:25pm: Do they walk to Indonesia? It is much easier to get to Indonesia on false documents, but not so much when travelling to Australia. These false documents are usually seized by the smugglers upon use.
Back to top	Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm: Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act IP Logged

Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: People smugglers choosing new routes, strategies Reply #43 - Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:48pm So they are criminals using criminal means to enter other countries.
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woody2014

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Re: People smugglers choosing new routes, strategies
Reply #44 - Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:50pm

Stratos wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:42pm:

King FriYAY II wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:25pm:

Do they walk to Indonesia?

It is much easier to get to Indonesia on false documents, but not so much when travelling to Australia. These false documents are usually seized by the smugglers upon use.

OK SO They criminals with false docs ,,SENDEM BACK Grin

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THE DUMB LEFTIES ON THIS BOARD DONT KNOW IF THERE WINDING THEIR ARSE OR SCRATCHING THEIR WATCH

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