Australian Politics Forum - Labor's petulance on display

John S

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Re: Labor's petulance on display
Reply #105 - Mar 28^th, 2014 at 8:59am

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 8:39am:

I am more than happy to provide evidence, however I am unwilling to repeatedly 'prove' that which needs no proof. Good debating will typically stipulate to that which is already well known and accepted. Poor debating however, resorts to demanding the opponent prove conclusively every point in an attempt to bog down a debate. This is usually done because the opponent cannot debate effectively. Another possibility is that the opponent genuinely wants proof because they are so lamentably uninformed or lumbered with so poor a memory that they cannot remember these facts. Neither example is a debater of any substance.

A good debater would supply links to back up his argument otherwise it looks like he is telling porkys

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jiminy cricket Junior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 81 Gender:	Re: Labor's petulance on display Reply #106 - Mar 28^th, 2014 at 9:06am Its difficult to try and educate the ignorant when you have the pile on mentality of a forum like this where ignorance is supported and cheered on at every step of the stupid.
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St George of the Garden

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Re: Labor's petulance on display
Reply #107 - Mar 28^th, 2014 at 9:09am

jiminy cricket wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 9:06am:

Its difficult to try and educate the ignorant when you have the pile on mentality of a forum like this where ignorance is supported and cheered on at every step of the stupid.

Helps to have a decent argument and a few facts.

Here is a fact: 99:0

Another:
“Bronnie: Where’s the Member for Perth?

Burke: At the Dispatch Box.”

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mozzaok

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Re: Labor's petulance on display
Reply #108 - Mar 28^th, 2014 at 9:10am

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 7:36pm:

Aussie wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 7:19pm:

Quote:

..and unsavoury history or rorting travel expenses.

Evidence please, and when you provide same, please distinguish Slipper's 'rorts' from............oh.............let's take......say...........Abbott's.

So another of the bully-boy tactics by demanding proof of facts that are already in the public domain and well-known? He was required to repay significant amounts by the Department of Finance on multiple occasions.

Now if you wish to debate properly it would be helpful to stipulate to facts - however inconvenient - that are demonstrably true rather than employ the bully boy tactics of demanding 'proof' at every stage. It is beneath those debaters of substance.

God knows who you are B&B, but what you are is a self important buffoon. Grin

Aussie's question was absolutely reasonable, and because you choose to obfuscate does not mean you actually answered it.

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John S

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Re: Labor's petulance on display
Reply #109 - Mar 28^th, 2014 at 9:22am

mozzaok wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 9:10am:

God knows who you are B&B, but what you are is a self important buffoon. Grin

Aussie's question was absolutely reasonable, and because you choose to obfuscate does not mean you actually answered it.

He reminds me of blackadder that was a member about 6 months ago and come on here and abuse everyone that didn't agree with him.

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Bread and Butter

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Re: Labor's petulance on display
Reply #110 - Mar 28^th, 2014 at 9:24am

St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 8:46am:

You haven’t offered proof in a single thread. You just advance opinions and won’t retreat from them when shown your facts are wrong.

Very few facts have been offered and in your case, have been uniquely wrong every time. Your technical expertise is truly dreadful as well as hopelessly jaundiced.

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St George of the Garden

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Re: Labor's petulance on display
Reply #111 - Mar 28^th, 2014 at 9:25am

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 9:24am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 8:46am:

You haven’t offered proof in a single thread. You just advance opinions and won’t retreat from them when shown your facts are wrong.

Very few facts have been offered and in your case, have been uniquely wrong every time. Your technical expertise is truly dreadful as well as hopelessly jaundiced.

Wow, you got some rose colored glasses on there, boy.

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Bread and Butter

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Re: Labor's petulance on display
Reply #112 - Mar 28^th, 2014 at 9:27am

mozzaok wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 9:10am:

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 7:36pm:

Aussie wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 7:19pm:

Quote:

..and unsavoury history or rorting travel expenses.

Evidence please, and when you provide same, please distinguish Slipper's 'rorts' from............oh.............let's take......say...........Abbott's.

So another of the bully-boy tactics by demanding proof of facts that are already in the public domain and well-known? He was required to repay significant amounts by the Department of Finance on multiple occasions.

Now if you wish to debate properly it would be helpful to stipulate to facts - however inconvenient - that are demonstrably true rather than employ the bully boy tactics of demanding 'proof' at every stage. It is beneath those debaters of substance.

God knows who you are B&B, but what you are is a self important buffoon. Grin

Aussie's question was absolutely reasonable, and because you choose to obfuscate does not mean you actually answered it.

So to address the issue, are you also going to pretend that Slippers long line of indiscretions including travel rorts are NOT public information and NOT well-known, especially on a politics forum? Does the fact he has actually been criminally charged with one such offence not something of which everyone here is clearly aware?

Of what value is it to 'prove' that which is already well known and accepted, unless of course you want to contend that until proven guilty in a court of law, Slipper's character remains unimpeachable? That level of proof would render almost every 'fact' presented here as inadmissible.

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jiminy cricket Junior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 81 Gender:	Re: Labor's petulance on display Reply #113 - Mar 28^th, 2014 at 9:35am You should have seen the great Thommo defence of 2012. Its still ongoing with disbelief and excuses for behavior. They will trot out reams of pages from Independent Australia in a laughable attempt at defending the indefendable.
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Bam

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Re: Labor's petulance on display
Reply #114 - Mar 28^th, 2014 at 9:37am

Grendel wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 9:42pm:

Kat wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 5:20pm:

mozzaok wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 4:35pm:

I have seen Bronwyn Bishop as speaker a few times, and I have to admit I was surprised at how blatantly she displayed her bias.
She does not even pretend to be fair or even handed, which does seem to give legitimacy to Labor putting forward the motion they did, and in the words they chose to do so.
I know people disparage Slipper for his previous transgressions, but you could see he really did try to fulfill the role of speaker as fairly, and honorably as he could, and I think it must be a long time since we have had such a cavalier disdain for the honour needed in the role of speaker, as displayed by Bishop.

Good post. Agreed.

Do you both agree that Anna Burke was blatantly biased too?
If not... you're both biased and have no credibility

If Burke was so blatantly biased, why didn't Abbott move a motion of no confidence in her? With the tight numbers of the 43rd parliament, it would have had a chance of succeeding if she was too biased.

Do you know why Slipper resigned as Speaker? He had lost the confidence of the House; Oakeshott and Windsor saw him privately to tell him that they would support a no confidence motion against him if one were moved, so he resigned. Pledging support on confidence in the Government is not the same thing as providing confidence in the Government's choice of Speaker.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Bam Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21905 Gender:	Re: Labor's petulance on display Reply #115 - Mar 28^th, 2014 at 9:39am Grendel wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 9:52pm: john_g wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 8:08pm: Can anyone tell me how Burke was any better/less biased? She wasn't and she allowed every question to go unanswered.... And ... BOOM! What little credibility you had left disappeared with this silly response.
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John S

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Re: Labor's petulance on display
Reply #116 - Mar 28^th, 2014 at 9:45am

For weeks, Australians have been calling the bias of the Speaker, Bronwyn Bishop into question. From across the spectrum – not just left, but also right (Sky News editor, Peter van Onselen has describer Bishop as “a disgraceful Speaker, plain and simple. A shocking selection”).

During Question Time yesterday, Tony Burke moved a motion to debate no confidence in the speaker. Leave was not granted by the Government. This was moved again two minutes later by Tony Burke.

Here is Tony Burke speech from Hansard

Anthony Albanese second the motion This is his speech from Hansard

In all fairness here is Christopher Pyne speech from Hansard

It should be noted, that despite the outrage the members of Opposition were reading from a prepared speech, so was Christopher Pyne.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Labor's petulance on display
Reply #117 - Mar 28^th, 2014 at 9:46am

Bam wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 9:39am:

Grendel wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 9:52pm:

john_g wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 8:08pm:

Can anyone tell me how Burke was any better/less biased?

She wasn't and she allowed every question to go unanswered....

And ... BOOM! What little credibility you had left disappeared with this silly response.

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Bam

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Re: Labor's petulance on display
Reply #118 - Mar 28^th, 2014 at 10:04am

Grendel wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 9:49pm:

Bam wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 6:07pm:

Grendel wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 5:00pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 4:10pm:

Grendel wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 3:20pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 2:43pm:

Normally the speaker is biased, we know this. But for one side to actually come out and say they are the MOST biased? hmmm, tells me that she must be pretty biased. Duchess Bishop must quit.

No it tells you how biased and childish this bunch of ALP members are.
Dreyfus has deserved the boot many times and not got it under a Labor speakership.
Anna Burke was very biased and allowed the ALP to do whatever they pleased and continually fail to answer questions.
She has no credibility or right to criticise anyone.

Care to show us examples, oh dear conservative leftie?
Or are you doing your usual finger at lips and shake routine?

Perhaps you missed parliament on tv under Burke.
So why are you here debating stuff you are ignorant of.
I saw it I know how biased she was even Jenkins was biased but you didn't see the Coalition arc up the way these prats do.

That's not true.

yes it is...

Considering that your credibility has already been shot to pieces with quite ridiculous pronouncements on this issue, I am disinclined to accept this without reliable proof from third-party sources.

Quote:

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In the last parliament, the Coalition moved to suspend standing orders in almost every sitting week of the last parliament, far more than is usual. You tell me that every occasion was justified.

I already made my point you seem to be avoiding the main one on purpose.

Says the poster who introduced irrelevancies in an obvious attempt to deflect the topic. It is you that is avoiding points, introduced irrelevancies regarding former Speaker Burke to derail the topic.

You have also refused to provide any evidence when asked.

I have addressed it in other places or others have already discussed it making it unnecessary for me to do so. Why repeat what others have said?

And despite your occasional claims to the contrary, you take the Coalition's line on almost every topic. Your adherence to the Coalition's narrow perspective is closer than many other right-leaning posters.

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In the last Parliament, The Coalition denied pairs for stupid reasons - the first time any Federal Opposition did that since before the last time that the United Australia Party was in office. You tell me that every denial of a pair was justified.

During this parliament, this crap Speaker has denied points of order before they have even been made and indulged in numerous other examples of bias. Calling "Madam Speaker" is grounds for ejection! Really! You tell me that every ejection from Parliament was justified and every denial of points of order was justified.

Did I say she was a great Speaker? No... Did I say she was a good speaker? No. your point would be then????? So far, Anna Burke was the most blatantly biased Speaker I've ever seen... Bishop has a way to go to match her yet.

Let me spell it out for you very simply.

Bishop "named" an ALP member - a serious sanction that suspends him for 24 hours - for calling out "Madam Speaker". He used the proper form of address, yet was thrown out for it! That is quite a blatant display of bias.

You show me one example - just one will do - where Speaker Burke named a member for addressing her as "Madam Speaker". Or even one example where Speaker Burke asked someone to leave the chamber for addressing her as "Madam Speaker". Then your view that Burke was at least as biased as Bishop would have some weight.

To help you, here is the link to the House Hansard. Go for it.

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John Smith

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Re: Labor's petulance on display
Reply #119 - Mar 28^th, 2014 at 10:08am

Abbott tried to pull a no confidence motion on the last labor governemtn almost every week of parliament, and not a peep from armpit about the libs petulance .... says more about armpit than it does anyone else

and anyone who is claiming Bishop isn't biased has rocks on their head ... QT was already a laughing stock but somehow Bishop has managed to drag from the already low of in the gutters down to the sewers .... who'd have thought it could have gotten worse? Disgraceful behaviour from her

Speaker should be independant of any political party.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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