Australian Politics Forum - Where's the double dissolution Tony?

King FriYAY II

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #15 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 9:58am

buzzanddidj wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 12:27am:

crocodile wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 11:08pm:

He won't seek one this term. He cannot demand one anyway. He may only request one.

He'd be a FOOL to go for one - given his government's unprecedented plummet in the polls
- THIS early in the picture

Mind YOU - I'm hoping he MAY have just enough
blue-blood ARROGANCE
to go for it

Unprecedented??? Have you seem the ALP's plummets in the polls when in government?

Now "that's" a plummet.... Roll Eyes

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Frances Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3577 In a Castle in the Hills Gender:	Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony? Reply #16 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:05am Doctor Jolly wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 9:07am: he is a coward of the highest order. Although you can call Abbott a lot of things, I don't think you can call him a coward. To me his actions reek more of unrestrained and unprincipled political opportunism.
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Bread and Butter

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #17 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:07am

Bam wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 7:37am:

crocodile wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 11:08pm:

He won't seek one this term. He cannot demand one anyway. He may only request one. With a new senate about to be sworn in around 3 months from now it is extremely unlikely that the Governor General will grant a dissolution of parliament.

I doubt Abbott would even consider calling a DD election until he's tried getting the legislation through the new Senate. I also agree that the GG may decline a request for a DD election if a new Senate has yet to take their seats.

Abbott insists on demanding his way or nothing. All too often he's going to get nothing. He should learn to negotiate, then he may not get all of what he wants but he may get some of what he wants.

Australians won't long tolerate a Prime Minister that cannot negotiate.

Regardless of all the carry-on, the Constitution requires the legislation to be presented twice, 90 days apart. Until that has happened - in about 80 days time - the issue is moot. And from a practical standpoint, why would anyone in their right mind call a DD election literally days before a new and more friendly senate took its seat?

There seems to a pretty hysterical response by some on here to a situation that has not even arisen yet about an action that the voters themselves support!

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Bread and Butter

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #18 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:08am

King FriYAY II wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 9:58am:

buzzanddidj wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 12:27am:

crocodile wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 11:08pm:

He won't seek one this term. He cannot demand one anyway. He may only request one.

He'd be a FOOL to go for one - given his government's unprecedented plummet in the polls
- THIS early in the picture

Mind YOU - I'm hoping he MAY have just enough
blue-blood ARROGANCE
to go for it

Unprecedented??? Have you seem the ALP's plummets in the polls when in government?

Now "that's" a plummet.... Roll Eyes

The ALP in WA have dropped to 29% while the Libs have risen to 44%.

Very different results in polling when an election is imminent as opposed to an election in 2.5 years time.

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Bread and Butter

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #19 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:10am

I am not aware that the G-G even could decline a valid request for a DD. The G-G acts on the advice of the PM and pretty much never disagrees. The same is true of legislation which is not legally enacted until the G-G signs it into place which he is constitutionally not required to do.

The G-G would not refuse a constitutionally valid requires for a D-D

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Frances Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3577 In a Castle in the Hills Gender:	Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony? Reply #20 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:12am Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:07am: There seems to a pretty hysterical response by some on here to a situation that has not even arisen yet about an action that the voters themselves support! Not as hysterical as the way the right were carrying on here while Gillard was Prime Minister.
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Aussie

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #21 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:21am

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:07am:

Bam wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 7:37am:

crocodile wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 11:08pm:

He won't seek one this term. He cannot demand one anyway. He may only request one. With a new senate about to be sworn in around 3 months from now it is extremely unlikely that the Governor General will grant a dissolution of parliament.

I doubt Abbott would even consider calling a DD election until he's tried getting the legislation through the new Senate. I also agree that the GG may decline a request for a DD election if a new Senate has yet to take their seats.

Abbott insists on demanding his way or nothing. All too often he's going to get nothing. He should learn to negotiate, then he may not get all of what he wants but he may get some of what he wants.

Australians won't long tolerate a Prime Minister that cannot negotiate.

Regardless of all the carry-on, the Constitution requires the legislation to be presented twice, 90 days apart. Until that has happened - in about 80 days time - the issue is moot. And from a practical standpoint, why would anyone in their right mind call a DD election literally days before a new and more friendly senate took its seat?

There seems to a pretty hysterical response by some on here to a situation that has not even arisen yet about an action that the voters themselves support!

The trigger can be pulled now, unless, of course, Abbott did not re-present this one last month.

Click here.

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Bread and Butter

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #22 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:27am

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:21am:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:07am:

Bam wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 7:37am:

crocodile wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 11:08pm:

He won't seek one this term. He cannot demand one anyway. He may only request one. With a new senate about to be sworn in around 3 months from now it is extremely unlikely that the Governor General will grant a dissolution of parliament.

I doubt Abbott would even consider calling a DD election until he's tried getting the legislation through the new Senate. I also agree that the GG may decline a request for a DD election if a new Senate has yet to take their seats.

Abbott insists on demanding his way or nothing. All too often he's going to get nothing. He should learn to negotiate, then he may not get all of what he wants but he may get some of what he wants.

Australians won't long tolerate a Prime Minister that cannot negotiate.

Regardless of all the carry-on, the Constitution requires the legislation to be presented twice, 90 days apart. Until that has happened - in about 80 days time - the issue is moot. And from a practical standpoint, why would anyone in their right mind call a DD election literally days before a new and more friendly senate took its seat?

There seems to a pretty hysterical response by some on here to a situation that has not even arisen yet about an action that the voters themselves support!

The trigger can be pulled now, unless, of course, Abbott did not re-present this one last month.

Click here.

Thanks for that. Do you know if the bills were identical both times because they have to be for a DD. There has been no media reporting on having a DD trigger so it seems doubtful. Or perhaps they understand the common-sense attitude of questioning why any sane PM would go to a DD just a few months before a probably friendly senate? And I think I read somewhere that the complexities of senate voting means that a DD before July 1 is either not constitutional or has significant problems. Do you know what they are?

Either way, I remember Rudd having TWO separate DD triggers and he used neither and his electoral position was quite positive. Bob Hawke used a DD in 1984 and lost much of his majority. I think it spooked further PMs from using a DD except in dire situations of which this most definitely is not one.

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Aussie

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #23 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:39am

Quote:

Do you know if the bills were identical both times because they have to be for a DD.

No, I don't.

Quote:

There has been no media reporting on having a DD trigger so it seems doubtful. Or perhaps they understand the common-sense attitude of questioning why any sane PM would go to a DD just a few months before a probably friendly senate?

I have no idea how you conclude the Senate (after this weekend) is going to be more Abbott friendly on carbon tax repeal post July 1, given PUP (holding control there) has already made it quite plain there will be no repeal unless that is retrospective.

Quote:

And I think I read somewhere that the complexities of senate voting means that a DD before July 1 is either not constitutional or has significant problems. Do you know what they are?

I am aware of nothing (apart from the obvious need for a trigger) which prevents Abbott going before July 1.

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skippy. Gold Member Offline Posts: 20882 Gender:	Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony? Reply #24 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:40am But the basher claimed he would go to a DD if he didn't get his way, he didn't say he would wait until he had a suckhole senate, did he lie? I can't remember Rudd stamping his feet and saying he would go to a DD if he didn't get his way, got a link B& B?
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Bread and Butter

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #25 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:00am

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:39am:

Quote:

Do you know if the bills were identical both times because they have to be for a DD.

No, I don't.

Quote:

There has been no media reporting on having a DD trigger so it seems doubtful. Or perhaps they understand the common-sense attitude of questioning why any sane PM would go to a DD just a few months before a probably friendly senate?

I have no idea how you conclude the Senate (after this weekend) is going to be more Abbott friendly on carbon tax repeal post July 1, given PUP (holding control there) has already made it quite plain there will be no repeal unless that is retrospective.

Quote:

And I think I read somewhere that the complexities of senate voting means that a DD before July 1 is either not constitutional or has significant problems. Do you know what they are?

I am aware of nothing (apart from the obvious need for a trigger) which prevents Abbott going before July 1.

Recent polling shows PUP as unlikely to win a WA senate seat. Their polling has dropped badly and if Palmer has any political nous at all - which is doubtful - he would sense that people are not happy with him threatening to block everything - especially the Carbon Tax Repeal - that is not in his personal financial favour. The new senate will vote to repeal the DD and if Palmer is as stupid and ignorant as I suspect and votes to reject the repeal, the Abbott has his DD trigger and despite what polls are saying, would win.

People hate the Carbon tax and the even more strongly hate parties and senators that seek to block the clearly expressed will of the people. Palmer will find himself out of the lower house and no-one in the upper house.

Palmers dilemma is quite simple but I suspect will escape him as subtle things usually do. If he refuses to repeal, he will not get his money back and will continue to pay the tax for the foreseeable future. If he repeals, he will not get his money back. If Abbott goes to a DD, there are two outcomes: Abbott wins and the CT is repealed, he doesn't get his refund. If Labor wins the CT wont be repealed.

Now if you were palmer wouldn't you see that there is no option for a refund - ever - and that his only choice is to repeal or not repeal.

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Bread and Butter

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #26 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:02am

skippy. wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:40am:

But the basher claimed he would go to a DD if he didn't get his way, he didn't say he would wait until he had a suckhole senate, did he lie?
I can't remember Rudd stamping his feet and saying he would go to a DD if he didn't get his way, got a link B& B?

Your invective and shallow responses indicate that history and politics are not things you really understand. I would suggest that most people in the country would not expect him to simply rush off to a DD when a simpler solution was around the corner. And this is why Abbott is PM while you are...

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buzzanddidj

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #27 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:15am

King FriYAY II wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 9:58am:

buzzanddidj wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 12:27am:

crocodile wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 11:08pm:

He won't seek one this term. He cannot demand one anyway. He may only request one.

He'd be a FOOL to go for one - given his government's unprecedented plummet in the polls
- THIS early in the picture

Mind YOU - I'm hoping he MAY have just enough
blue-blood ARROGANCE
to go for it

Unprecedented??? Have you seem the ALP's plummets in the polls when in government?

Now "that's" a plummet.... Roll Eyes

I was referring to the
unprecedented fall from grace
in polling done during the
100 day "honeymoon" period

I'd assumed all and sundry was aware of those results ?

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Aussie

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #28 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:15am

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:00am:

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:39am:

Quote:

Do you know if the bills were identical both times because they have to be for a DD.

No, I don't.

Quote:

There has been no media reporting on having a DD trigger so it seems doubtful. Or perhaps they understand the common-sense attitude of questioning why any sane PM would go to a DD just a few months before a probably friendly senate?

I have no idea how you conclude the Senate (after this weekend) is going to be more Abbott friendly on carbon tax repeal post July 1, given PUP (holding control there) has already made it quite plain there will be no repeal unless that is retrospective.

Quote:

And I think I read somewhere that the complexities of senate voting means that a DD before July 1 is either not constitutional or has significant problems. Do you know what they are?

I am aware of nothing (apart from the obvious need for a trigger) which prevents Abbott going before July 1.

Recent polling shows PUP as unlikely to win a WA senate seat. Their polling has dropped badly and if Palmer has any political nous at all - which is doubtful - he would sense that people are not happy with him threatening to block everything - especially the Carbon Tax Repeal - that is not in his personal financial favour. The new senate will vote to repeal the DD and if Palmer is as stupid and ignorant as I suspect and votes to reject the repeal, the Abbott has his DD trigger and despite what polls are saying, would win.

People hate the Carbon tax and the even more strongly hate parties and senators that seek to block the clearly expressed will of the people. Palmer will find himself out of the lower house and no-one in the upper house.

Palmers dilemma is quite simple but I suspect will escape him as subtle things usually do. If he refuses to repeal, he will not get his money back and will continue to pay the tax for the foreseeable future. If he repeals, he will not get his money back. If Abbott goes to a DD, there are two outcomes: Abbott wins and the CT is repealed, he doesn't get his refund. If Labor wins the CT wont be repealed.

Now if you were palmer wouldn't you see that there is no option for a refund - ever - and that his only choice is to repeal or not repeal.

I don't know where you get your news from but this suggests you are wrong.

Click here.

PUP went to the Sept 2013 with a retrospective repeal of the carbon tax as part of its platform. PUP (with that Transport bloke) already has the balance of power in the Senate post July 1, and the outcome of this weekend's re-run is not going to change that.

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skippy.

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #29 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:20am

King FriYAY II wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 9:58am:

buzzanddidj wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 12:27am:

crocodile wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 11:08pm:

He won't seek one this term. He cannot demand one anyway. He may only request one.

He'd be a FOOL to go for one - given his government's unprecedented plummet in the polls
- THIS early in the picture

Mind YOU - I'm hoping he MAY have just enough
blue-blood ARROGANCE
to go for it

Unprecedented??? Have you seem the ALP's plummets in the polls when in government?

Now "that's" a plummet.... Roll Eyes

It shows how bad the basher is given he has the worst ever polls for a new government. Tongue

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