Australian Politics Forum - Where's the double dissolution Tony?

Armchair_Politician

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #45 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 12:15pm

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 12:07pm:

Bam wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:59am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:50am:

The legislation to repeal the carbon tax was defeated in the Senate recently.

For the second time, IIRC; if so, Abbott has a DD trigger.

The point is moot though because he won't use it. Not with a new Senate incoming, and not when he's behind in the polls.

I would like you to cite an authoritative reference to this claim. From my reading, the recent repeal was the first time the group of CT bills had been presented and last years was simply the CEFC bill. Now if I am wrong then please cite evidence of that. The complete silence of the media on all sides about this supposed DD does tend to support my position that it does not yet exist.

The repeal bills for the carbon tax AND mining tax have been rejected once. There needs to be a second rejection for there to be a trigger for a DD.

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Aussie

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #46 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 12:25pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:59am:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:57am:

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:21am:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:07am:

Bam wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 7:37am:

crocodile wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 11:08pm:

He won't seek one this term. He cannot demand one anyway. He may only request one. With a new senate about to be sworn in around 3 months from now it is extremely unlikely that the Governor General will grant a dissolution of parliament.

I doubt Abbott would even consider calling a DD election until he's tried getting the legislation through the new Senate. I also agree that the GG may decline a request for a DD election if a new Senate has yet to take their seats.

Abbott insists on demanding his way or nothing. All too often he's going to get nothing. He should learn to negotiate, then he may not get all of what he wants but he may get some of what he wants.

Australians won't long tolerate a Prime Minister that cannot negotiate.

Regardless of all the carry-on, the Constitution requires the legislation to be presented twice, 90 days apart. Until that has happened - in about 80 days time - the issue is moot. And from a practical standpoint, why would anyone in their right mind call a DD election literally days before a new and more friendly senate took its seat?

There seems to a pretty hysterical response by some on here to a situation that has not even arisen yet about an action that the voters themselves support!

The trigger can be pulled now, unless, of course, Abbott did not re-present this one last month.

Click here.

A correction Aussie. your reference was to just ONE bill, not the full CT repeal bills. So I return to my original point that the constitutional requirements for a DD do not exists and will not until mid June, mere weeks before the new senate.

Aussie is a legend at being wrong - a true master!

Did either of you read the link I gave and what I posted, including the caveat?

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #47 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 12:50pm

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 12:25pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:59am:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:57am:

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:21am:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:07am:

Bam wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 7:37am:

crocodile wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 11:08pm:

He won't seek one this term. He cannot demand one anyway. He may only request one. With a new senate about to be sworn in around 3 months from now it is extremely unlikely that the Governor General will grant a dissolution of parliament.

I doubt Abbott would even consider calling a DD election until he's tried getting the legislation through the new Senate. I also agree that the GG may decline a request for a DD election if a new Senate has yet to take their seats.

Abbott insists on demanding his way or nothing. All too often he's going to get nothing. He should learn to negotiate, then he may not get all of what he wants but he may get some of what he wants.

Australians won't long tolerate a Prime Minister that cannot negotiate.

Regardless of all the carry-on, the Constitution requires the legislation to be presented twice, 90 days apart. Until that has happened - in about 80 days time - the issue is moot. And from a practical standpoint, why would anyone in their right mind call a DD election literally days before a new and more friendly senate took its seat?

There seems to a pretty hysterical response by some on here to a situation that has not even arisen yet about an action that the voters themselves support!

The trigger can be pulled now, unless, of course, Abbott did not re-present this one last month.

Click here.

A correction Aussie. your reference was to just ONE bill, not the full CT repeal bills. So I return to my original point that the constitutional requirements for a DD do not exists and will not until mid June, mere weeks before the new senate.

Aussie is a legend at being wrong - a true master!

Did either of you read the link I gave and what I posted, including the caveat?

"The first bill of the package was voted down on Tuesday when Labor and Greens joined forces to reject a bill to scrap the $10 billion Clean Energy Finance Corporation (CEFC) after a debate lasting more than 10 hours." - This was the CEFC, NOT the carbon tax legislation. Therefore, Abbott has no trigger for calling a DD. Do you ever use your brain, or even have one?

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38770 Gender:	Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony? Reply #48 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 1:00pm "The first Bill of the package...." If that said, same first Bill was presented in March, 2014 to the Senate (and it is logical to assume it was) then, Abbott now has the trigger if he wants it.
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Bread and Butter

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #49 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 2:38pm

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 1:00pm:

"The first Bill of the package...."

If that said, same first Bill was presented in March, 2014 to the Senate (and it is logical to assume it was) then, Abbott now has the trigger if he wants it.

That is completely wrong. the legislation has to be identical in every way and rejected twice 90 days apart. Even a change in any of the wording invalidates it.

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olde.sault Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2913	Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony? Reply #50 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 2:52pm Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 4:20pm: https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/10155726_617957144... Go ahead Tony - pull the trigger. It's rude to talk about your suppositories, mate. Some things should not be brought up. What are you scared of?
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olde.sault

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #51 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 2:58pm

crocodile wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 11:08pm:

He won't seek one this term. He cannot demand one anyway. He may only request one. With a new senate about to be sworn in around 3 months from now it is extremely unlikely that the Governor General will grant a dissolution of parliament.

A double dissolution can't just be given on demand. However, if the leftoids and the green vermin keep rejecting that for which Abbott was given a mandate, he can ask the GG to dissolve both houses of parliament - as John Kerr d id in 1975.

Nothing to do with a promise - leftoid!

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Aussie

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #52 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:22pm

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 2:38pm:

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 1:00pm:

"The first Bill of the package...."

If that said, same first Bill was presented in March, 2014 to the Senate (and it is logical to assume it was) then, Abbott now has the trigger if he wants it.

That is completely wrong. the legislation has to be identical in every way and rejected twice 90 days apart. Even a change in any of the wording invalidates it.

Was the Bill, rejected in December, part of the package rejected in March, and was it exactly the same Bill?

Hence my caveat, which you seem to be ignoring for some reason.

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Bread and Butter

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #53 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:36pm

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:22pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 2:38pm:

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 1:00pm:

"The first Bill of the package...."

If that said, same first Bill was presented in March, 2014 to the Senate (and it is logical to assume it was) then, Abbott now has the trigger if he wants it.

That is completely wrong. the legislation has to be identical in every way and rejected twice 90 days apart. Even a change in any of the wording invalidates it.

Was the Bill, rejected in December, part of the package rejected in March, and was it exactly the same Bill?

Hence my caveat, which you seem to be ignoring for some reason.

IM not ignoring it at all and have answered it. It appears extremely obvious that a DD trigger does not exist as there has been zero media discussion of it. Don't you think something of that nature and implication would arouse a bit of media attention? Just get over it. There is no DD trigger and this entire thread is just another 'hate Abbott' thread with the usual degree of value and intelligence ie none.

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Aussie

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #54 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:46pm

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:36pm:

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:22pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 2:38pm:

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 1:00pm:

"The first Bill of the package...."

If that said, same first Bill was presented in March, 2014 to the Senate (and it is logical to assume it was) then, Abbott now has the trigger if he wants it.

That is completely wrong. the legislation has to be identical in every way and rejected twice 90 days apart. Even a change in any of the wording invalidates it.

Was the Bill, rejected in December, part of the package rejected in March, and was it exactly the same Bill?

Hence my caveat, which you seem to be ignoring for some reason.

IM not ignoring it at all and have answered it. It appears extremely obvious that a DD trigger does not exist as there has been zero media discussion of it. Don't you think something of that nature and implication would arouse a bit of media attention? Just get over it. There is no DD trigger and this entire thread is just another 'hate Abbott' thread with the usual degree of value and intelligence ie none.

I guess that means Abbott was careful not to re-present that December 2013 Bill in the same form (or maybe even at all,) in March, 2014 ~ to deliberately ensure he avoided establishing a trigger. That is pretty well (cynically) stage managed, don't you reckon?

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Bread and Butter

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #55 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:54pm

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:46pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:36pm:

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:22pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 2:38pm:

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 1:00pm:

"The first Bill of the package...."

If that said, same first Bill was presented in March, 2014 to the Senate (and it is logical to assume it was) then, Abbott now has the trigger if he wants it.

That is completely wrong. the legislation has to be identical in every way and rejected twice 90 days apart. Even a change in any of the wording invalidates it.

Was the Bill, rejected in December, part of the package rejected in March, and was it exactly the same Bill?

Hence my caveat, which you seem to be ignoring for some reason.

IM not ignoring it at all and have answered it. It appears extremely obvious that a DD trigger does not exist as there has been zero media discussion of it. Don't you think something of that nature and implication would arouse a bit of media attention? Just get over it. There is no DD trigger and this entire thread is just another 'hate Abbott' thread with the usual degree of value and intelligence ie none.

I guess that means Abbott was careful not to re-present that December 2013 Bill in the same form (or maybe even at all,) in March, 2014 ~ to deliberately ensure he avoided establishing a trigger. That is pretty well (cynically) stage managed, don't you reckon?

The cynicism was yours and horribly un-informed as well. the CEFC bill was sent early to assist with budget planning as it is a major financial instrument.

But the point remains that there is no DD trigger and never has been.

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #56 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:54pm

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:46pm:

I guess that means Abbott was careful not to re-present that December 2013 Bill in the same form (or maybe even at all,) in March, 2014 ~ to deliberately ensure he avoided establishing a trigger. That is pretty well (cynically) stage managed, don't you reckon?

I told ya Abbott is a coward.

He could have easily called a DD by now if he wanted to.

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Bread and Butter

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #57 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:00pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:54pm:

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:46pm:

I guess that means Abbott was careful not to re-present that December 2013 Bill in the same form (or maybe even at all,) in March, 2014 ~ to deliberately ensure he avoided establishing a trigger. That is pretty well (cynically) stage managed, don't you reckon?

I told ya Abbott is a coward.

He could have easily called a DD by now if he wanted to.

Why would he do that? Why would anyone in any circumstance go spoilng for a fight that cannot be won? Labor and the Greens will NEVER repeal the Carbon Tax so even presenting it once was simply to make a political point which will haunt labor next election. The real action is in the next senate where Labor and Greens do not hold a majority. A clever PM such as Abbott would be planning the repeal then. Only a stupid person would do what you are suggesting.

And before you go on your predictable rant, it is not a breach of electoral promise either.

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Bread and Butter

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #58 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:02pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:54pm:

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:46pm:

I guess that means Abbott was careful not to re-present that December 2013 Bill in the same form (or maybe even at all,) in March, 2014 ~ to deliberately ensure he avoided establishing a trigger. That is pretty well (cynically) stage managed, don't you reckon?

I told ya Abbott is a coward.

He could have easily called a DD by now if he wanted to.

If you are looking for cowards look no further than Kevin Rudd who had no less than TWO DD triggers and held a comfortable lead in the polls and still failed to use them. Mind you, the man stood for absolutely nothing beyond his own ego.

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Aussie

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Re: Where's the double dissolution Tony?
Reply #59 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:10pm

Quote:

The cynicism was yours and horribly un-informed as well. the CEFC bill was sent early to assist with budget planning as it is a major financial instrument.

But the point remains that there is no DD trigger and never has been.

You do not know that for certain and neither do I as we do not know if the December 2013 Bill was presented again in identical fashion in March, 2014. To take up your logic which is....because there is no schmenia clamour there is no trigger.....the only reason for that is ~ Abbott ensured one would not be created, by cowardly not re-presenting that 2013 Bill or altering it at 2014 re-presentation.

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