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Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits! (Read 4244 times)
crocodile
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #15 - Mar 31st, 2014 at 11:08pm
 
Bam wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 7:03pm:
crocodile wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 6:28pm:
If budget surpluses are the only metric that indicates sound economic management why is Gough Whitlam not put up high on a pedestal.

Good point.

The Whitlam government was the first government since the Second World War to make the delivery of surpluses a stated aim, in stark contrast to the previous Coalition government of Menzies/Holt/Gorton/McMahon that routinely ran deficits in almost every one of the 23 budgets that they handed down. Which government delivered more surpluses - Whitlam or Menzies/Holt/Gorton/McMahon? Which government delivered more deficits?


The point is not really that good. It just highlights the folly of using budget surpluses as some kind of barometer for economic performance. The thread title is nothing more than a flag waving exercise akin to cheering on one's favourite footy team.

You can delve back into history way, way back and find that the Howard years were about the only period where long term sustained surpluses prevailed. And this was really only helped by soaring commodity prices and the wholesale divestment of public assets.

Now that Joe has his hands on the tiller, through all his bluster he is quickly realising that the problems his predecessor faced are not too different to what lies ahead of him as well. On top of that, his methods of restoration aren't a whole lot different either.
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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #16 - Mar 31st, 2014 at 11:33pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 6:33pm:
We now have an infrastructure deficit.....Who was in charge when the coffers where bulging and blew it on buying votes instead of building infrastructure???

Huh Huh Huh


If that's the case why, pray tell, did Swan promise us a cast iron surplus in 2013 for 2 years......
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buzzanddidj
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #17 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 12:16am
 
crocodile wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 6:28pm:
If budget surpluses are the only metric that indicates sound economic management why is Gough Whitlam not put up high on a pedestal.






To MANY of us -
E.G. "Gough" Whitlam AC QC
and
"comrade"
- is immortalised on the HIGHEST of pedestal

The highlights of my recent - and first in 43 years - trip to Canberra, was being photographed by the official portrait of the
great man
, in the new Parliament House - and my first look at the
Whitlam
purchase - and "cultural sledge-hammer" - that delivered us from an "Appalachian wilderness"



...





( ... there's NOT much else THERE - though I might try AGAIN, in ANOTHER 43 years)





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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #18 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 12:17am
 
buzzanddidj wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 12:16am:
To MANY of us -
E.G. "Gough" Whitlam AC QC
and
"comrade"
- is immortalised on the HIGHEST of pedestal





That pretty much sums you up.
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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philperth2010
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #19 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 12:25am
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 11:33pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 6:33pm:
We now have an infrastructure deficit.....Who was in charge when the coffers where bulging and blew it on buying votes instead of building infrastructure???

Huh Huh Huh


If that's the case why, pray tell, did Swan promise us a cast iron surplus in 2013 for 2 years......


What has your comment got to do with the substance of my post....The global downturn has reduced revenue below forecasts and will continue to do so no matter what Hockey does.....Howard had the opportunity to build infrastructure that would have been better than buying votes!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #20 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 12:31am
 
Your comment Phil is as if you blame Howard and Costello (shock horror) for the fact that the current situation of budget deficits is ongoing.

Yet superbly seemed to have missed the point that Labor took a budget in surplus and then produced SIX DEFICITS in SIX BUDGETS.

Quite some achievement. Then again the party of the working class are hardly ideal for dealing with economic matters a tad above the level of boozing and pokie machines...  Wink

So - to your point - if it was all the fault of Howard and that things were very bad when ALP took over - then how come idiot Swan promised us all a surplus in 2013...

Then delivered a $23 BILLION DEFICIT!

If it were obvious the budget was in structural deficit when they took over - as you claim - why promise a surplus?????
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ian
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #21 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 12:42am
 
Labor inherited the GFC, Howard didnt have that to contend with. Howard was in power during the most favourable world  economic circumstances for australia  in history. He squandered the opportunity.
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buzzanddidj
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #22 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 12:49am
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 12:17am:
buzzanddidj wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 12:16am:
To MANY of us -
E.G. "Gough" Whitlam AC QC
and
"comrade"
- is immortalised on the HIGHEST of pedestal





That pretty much sums you up.







... and how many "pink elephant" stamps do you think FLATTERY will get you, sweet-cheeks ?



( ... and bear in MIND - these events took place LONG before you were a wet dream fed in with a chicken baster
)








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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'


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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #23 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 12:55am
 
ian wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 12:42am:
Labor inherited the GFC, Howard didnt have that to contend with. Howard was in power during the most favourable world  economic circumstances for australia  in history. He squandered the opportunity.



Hardly.
A country running to surplus.
A decent reward system for middle income families to get on in life.
An adherence to workplace relations reforms that were needed.
A strong border control policy.

Nope. I know I did pretty well in Australia partly as a result of Howard's policies and I know many that did.
I can't say the same for the disaster that followed it.
In fact I was glad to leave if I am honest.
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buzzanddidj
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #24 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 12:58am
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 12:31am:
Your comment Phil is as if you blame Howard and Costello (shock horror) for the fact that the current situation of budget deficits is ongoing.








buzzanddidj wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 5:07pm:
How
Howard's last budget
planted the
seeds of deficit


8 May 2013









Shadow treasurer Joe Hockey promises major cuts to spending and welfare if the coalition is elected while the government, having been forced to walk away from its budget surplus promise, is now cutting previously guaranteed benefits like increases in family benefit payments.


The focus on these sorts of welfare cuts begins the dismantling of policies that were central to John Howard and Peter Costello’s budgets, especially the pair’s final big-spending 2007 budget, which bestowed generous tax concessions – in areas such as superannuation – and transferred income to families that came to be dubbed “middle class welfare”.


In my comment piece on last year’s federal budget for The Conversation, I began with the proposition that “good policy should be free of surprises”.

Although governments need to pay for additional expenditure promises – like Gonski and the NDIS in this case – there is also the need to address the underlying structural problem of reducing existing expenditure when revenues fall.

All this is at a time when the carbon tax, the mining tax – and just about every tax – is not raising the expected revenue, and Treasury's forecasting performance is not looking good.

The point is that
fiscal policy should be made in the context of a long-term vision for the economy
.

This includes getting everyone who wants to into work, providing the public infrastructure needed to increase productivity, the right mix of private and government healthcare and education; and reform of the regulatory environment. We should see clear lines being drawn between the major parties with regard to their philosophy. However, in recent decades we haven’t seen much of this.

Under John Howard, the Liberal-National Party coalition government sought to position itself as good economic managers in contrast to Labor. It recorded budget surpluses after 1997-98 in every year except one (2001-02), with surpluses reaching around 1 per cent of GDP during its fourth term. The record economic growth led to huge windfalls in receipts from company income tax.

Falls in unemployment, jobs growth and wages growth greatly increased personal income tax receipts. While government expenditure as a proportion of GDP was fairly stable, albeit rising slightly, this has to be seen in the context of a switch from public provision of services to private provision. Consequently, there was less provision of government services but increasing government expenditure.

In the 2004-05 federal budget, treasurer Peter Costello announced the baby bonus, a lump sum payment of $3000 to parents receivable after the birth of each child. It has since risen from $3000 on commencement on July 1, 2004, to $4000 in 2005 and to $5000 on July 1, 2008, and is indexed to inflation. Wayne Swan subsequently reduced the baby bonus to $5000 from September 1, 2012, and to $3000 for second and subsequent children from mid-2013.

In the same budget there were other significant increases in benefits to families with children as well as tax cuts for all Australians. As more than one commentator pointed out, there was an incredible degree of giving with one hand and taking away with the other with inevitable administrative cost and waste.

The biggest single item of government expenditure is on social welfare. The majority of the recipients are middle income households due to the generosity of family payments. In 2007, even families with $100,000 in income were eligible for child support. In effect, what the Howard government built up is a system of massive transfers from middle income taxpayers back to middle income consumers. It might well have been more efficient to let these middle class households keep the money instead of paying extra tax.

In 2007, during the election campaign, further planned personal income tax cuts of $34 billion over five years were promised by both the Howard government and matched by Labor, with the latter firmly in its policy-copying “me too” election mode.

The result of policy-matching meant that the Howard government effectively locked  the next government into its tax reforms including raising tax thresholds and reducing the top tax rate of 45 cents per dollar, ultimately lowered to 40 cents per dollar.

https://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2013/5/8/federal-budget/how-howards...













...






...






...






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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'


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buzzanddidj
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #25 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 1:01am
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 12:55am:
ian wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 12:42am:
Labor inherited the GFC, Howard didnt have that to contend with. Howard was in power during the most favourable world  economic circumstances for australia  in history. He squandered the opportunity.



I did pretty well in Australia partly as a result of Howard's policies
.
I was glad to leave if I am honest.







Is THAT why you're still here ?







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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'


- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
 
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #26 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 1:07am
 
buzzanddidj wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 12:58am:
[quote author=Andrei.Hicks link=1396221316/20#20 date=1396276299]Your comment Phil is as if you blame Howard and Costello (shock horror) for the fact that the current situation of budget deficits is ongoing.








buzzanddidj wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 5:07pm:
How
Howard's last budget
planted the
seeds of deficit







Question still stands - why in 2011 and a further 2 years did Wayne Swan promise categorically a budget surplus then?
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #27 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 1:08am
 
buzzanddidj wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 1:01am:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 12:55am:
ian wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 12:42am:
Labor inherited the GFC, Howard didnt have that to contend with. Howard was in power during the most favourable world  economic circumstances for australia  in history. He squandered the opportunity.



I did pretty well in Australia partly as a result of Howard's policies
.
I was glad to leave if I am honest.







Is THAT why you're still here ?




Because I am an Australian citizen by birth interested in the country's well being.
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Sir Spot of Borg
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #28 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 3:38am
 
The "middle class" wealthfare is what should be cut - not the money for the poorest ppl . . . and they should stop selling the geese so they have some eggs. This government is ridiculous as was the howard government.

SOB
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #29 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 5:22am
 
Howard got rid of the $96 billion debt Keating left by cutting government services and privatising anything he could get his hands on. Yes he left with a surplus, but he also left just as the GFC hit and thousands of Australians lost everything.

Labor began reinstating most of the government services - not a cheap exercise and by the end of their term Australians had the healthiest savings we had seen in decades.

Labor brought back means testing and on a couple of occasions tried to reduce middle class welfare, but the screams of outrage were deafening.

And Hockey has the hide to blame Labor. Let's see how popular he's going to be if these promised harsh cuts affect those on middle and higher incomes, but they won't because Hockey won't start at the top. He'll work his way up from the bottom.

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