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Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits! (Read 4226 times)
crocodile
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #30 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 8:41am
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 1:07am:
buzzanddidj wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 12:58am:
[quote author=Andrei.Hicks link=1396221316/20#20 date=1396276299]Your comment Phil is as if you blame Howard and Costello (shock horror) for the fact that the current situation of budget deficits is ongoing.








buzzanddidj wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 5:07pm:
How
Howard's last budget
planted the
seeds of deficit







Question still stands - why in 2011 and a further 2 years did Wayne Swan promise categorically a budget surplus then?


Just a quick look at the 2011 budget papers.

http://www.budget.gov.au/2011-12/content/myefo/html/02_part_2-03.htm

It appears that the forward estimates from treasury were way off. Take a look at projected nominal GDP growth for 2012 and 2013 and you will see that treasury forecasts were 6.25% and 5% respectively.

History tells us that it was actually less than half these figures. Like it or not, that is the reason for the promised surpluses and their respective deterioration into deficits.
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perceptions_now
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #31 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 11:18pm
 
Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 9:15am:
FEDERAL Treasurer Joe Hockey says without deep cuts to spending in the budget Australia is heading for the longest period of continuing deficits in modern history. 
 
Treasury analysis predicts the country's deficits will stretch out to at least 2024 because of continued spending increases.

The warning provides a case for drastic cuts in the May budget, as the government on Monday received the final report from its Commission of Audit.

Mr Hockey said the government had to reduce expenditure, as well as try to increase revenue at the same time.

"Without changes to government spending the budget is in deficit for at least a decade," Mr Hockey told ABC radio.

"It would be the longest period of continuing deficits in modern history."


Asked if that meant the budget cuts had to be hard and deep, Mr Hockey said: "They've got to be fair, too".

"It is about making sure that everyone, everyone in the community helps to do the heavy lifting on repairing the budget," he said.

"This is not an ideological drive. This is about whether we want to simply sustain our quality of living, not even improve our quality of living.

"We have to make sure we live within our means."

Mr Hockey complained that Labor had left the government with "massive" spending increases in foreign aid and defence, and a poorly introduced National Disability Insurance Scheme.

"If we don't get on top of the proper management of the National Disability Insurance Scheme, not only would it not be sustainable, but it could end up as big a farce as the pink batts program or the $900 cheques program," he said.

The treasurer said the ageing population was also putting pressure on the budget.

When asked if it was sustainable to give a part pension to those with assets of more than a million dollars, Mr Hockey said "that's something that obviously needs to be taken into account".

"The aged pension is growing at a massive rate," he said.

"But also it's about our ageing population, and the fact is that we're living longer.

"The question is how do we sustain these sorts of payments, and ensure that they are sustainable in 10, 20 and 30 years time."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/breaking-news/australia-faces-decade-of-de...


With OR without changes to government spending, IT IS VERY LIKELY THAT THE OZ BUDGET WILL BE IN DEFICIT FOR AT LEAST THE NEXT DECADE & QUITE POSSIBLY MORE, MUCH MORE!

AND, before anyone gets OVER-EXCITED, this calamity has arisen not just from OZ Labor, but also from OZ Liberals/Nationals AND from Labor/Liberal counterparts in many other countries, over many decades AND because WE/ THE PUBLIC swallowed to much -
C
redible
R
eliable
A
bundant
P
aradoxes
for far too long, from Politicians of all persuasions!

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philperth2010
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #32 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 11:59pm
 
Good to hear from you again Perc.....I agree the Coalition, ALP and Greens have all contributed to this problem.....However the problem is mostly because of a Global downturn that cannot be fixed by tinkering with the Australian budget.....No one can fix what is out of their control!!!

Huh Huh Huh
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #33 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 6:01am
 
mantra wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 5:22am:
Howard got rid of the $96 billion debt Keating left by cutting government services and privatising anything he could get his hands on. Yes he left with a surplus, but he also left just as the GFC hit and thousands of Australians lost everything.

Labor began reinstating most of the government services - not a cheap exercise and by the end of their term Australians had the healthiest savings we had seen in decades.

Labor brought back means testing and on a couple of occasions tried to reduce middle class welfare, but the screams of outrage were deafening.

And Hockey has the hide to blame Labor. Let's see how popular he's going to be if these promised harsh cuts affect those on middle and higher incomes, but they won't because Hockey won't start at the top. He'll work his way up from the bottom.




so single parents  were middle class welfare... I didnt know that. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #34 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 7:10am
 
perceptions_now wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 11:18pm:
Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 9:15am:
FEDERAL Treasurer Joe Hockey says without deep cuts to spending in the budget Australia is heading for the longest period of continuing deficits in modern history. 
 
Treasury analysis predicts the country's deficits will stretch out to at least 2024 because of continued spending increases.

The warning provides a case for drastic cuts in the May budget, as the government on Monday received the final report from its Commission of Audit.

Mr Hockey said the government had to reduce expenditure, as well as try to increase revenue at the same time.

"Without changes to government spending the budget is in deficit for at least a decade," Mr Hockey told ABC radio.

"It would be the longest period of continuing deficits in modern history."


Asked if that meant the budget cuts had to be hard and deep, Mr Hockey said: "They've got to be fair, too".

"It is about making sure that everyone, everyone in the community helps to do the heavy lifting on repairing the budget," he said.

"This is not an ideological drive. This is about whether we want to simply sustain our quality of living, not even improve our quality of living.

"We have to make sure we live within our means."

Mr Hockey complained that Labor had left the government with "massive" spending increases in foreign aid and defence, and a poorly introduced National Disability Insurance Scheme.

"If we don't get on top of the proper management of the National Disability Insurance Scheme, not only would it not be sustainable, but it could end up as big a farce as the pink batts program or the $900 cheques program," he said.

The treasurer said the ageing population was also putting pressure on the budget.

When asked if it was sustainable to give a part pension to those with assets of more than a million dollars, Mr Hockey said "that's something that obviously needs to be taken into account".

"The aged pension is growing at a massive rate," he said.

"But also it's about our ageing population, and the fact is that we're living longer.

"The question is how do we sustain these sorts of payments, and ensure that they are sustainable in 10, 20 and 30 years time."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/breaking-news/australia-faces-decade-of-de...


With OR without changes to government spending, IT IS VERY LIKELY THAT THE OZ BUDGET WILL BE IN DEFICIT FOR AT LEAST THE NEXT DECADE & QUITE POSSIBLY MORE, MUCH MORE!

AND, before anyone gets OVER-EXCITED, this calamity has arisen not just from OZ Labor, but also from OZ Liberals/Nationals AND from Labor/Liberal counterparts in many other countries, over many decades AND because WE/ THE PUBLIC swallowed to much -
C
redible
R
eliable
A
bundant
P
aradoxes
for far too long, from Politicians of all persuasions!



Oh, I forgot that you have a Masters in Economics and worked for decades in the finance industry that gives you such credibility to overrule the advice given to Hockey. Swan couldn't find his ass with both hands and a map. Unlike Swan, who has zero real-world experience in finance, Hockey was (prior to commencing his political career) a banking and finance lawyer. What qualifications do you have, besides your Masters in Economics???
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #35 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 9:04am
 
Stratos wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 10:17am:
While I agree that Labor had some very poor economic management at times, you need to realise that a healthy economy is NOT measured by the surplus or defecit.  Unfortunately, largely through the media, it is often presented this way, and people with a lack of understanding of macro economics see it as an irresponsible spender living beyond their means, while when it comes to a large economy, often the opposite is needed in times of hardship.

Pollies need to show some nerve and:

A) Stop caving in to pressure from the media regarding the actual importance of a defecit or surplus

B) Stop using these things as political point scoring mechanisms and break the cycle.

Spending money on wasteful things doesn't help much, as Labor has done in the past, but if you think cutting programs and spending, taking billions out of the economy is going to help, you are wrong indeed.


Surplus and deficit is not the way to determine health but continued deficits would suggest economic problems.  Likewise with debt, it has its place but if the long-term direction is more debt than it suggest the economic balance is wrong.
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #36 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 9:10am
 
buzzanddidj wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 5:07pm:
How
Howard's last budget
planted the
seeds of deficit


8 May 2013



http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2007/10/15/newshowardcostello_wideweb__470x319...






Shadow treasurer Joe Hockey promises major cuts to spending and welfare if the coalition is elected while the government, having been forced to walk away from its budget surplus promise, is now cutting previously guaranteed benefits like increases in family benefit payments.


The focus on these sorts of welfare cuts begins the dismantling of policies that were central to John Howard and Peter Costello’s budgets, especially the pair’s final big-spending 2007 budget, which bestowed generous tax concessions – in areas such as superannuation – and transferred income to families that came to be dubbed “middle class welfare”.


In my comment piece on last year’s federal budget for The Conversation, I began with the proposition that “good policy should be free of surprises”.

Although governments need to pay for additional expenditure promises – like Gonski and the NDIS in this case – there is also the need to address the underlying structural problem of reducing existing expenditure when revenues fall.

All this is at a time when the carbon tax, the mining tax – and just about every tax – is not raising the expected revenue, and Treasury's forecasting performance is not looking good.

The point is that
fiscal policy should be made in the context of a long-term vision for the economy
.

This includes getting everyone who wants to into work, providing the public infrastructure needed to increase productivity, the right mix of private and government healthcare and education; and reform of the regulatory environment. We should see clear lines being drawn between the major parties with regard to their philosophy. However, in recent decades we haven’t seen much of this.

Under John Howard, the Liberal-National Party coalition government sought to position itself as good economic managers in contrast to Labor. It recorded budget surpluses after 1997-98 in every year except one (2001-02), with surpluses reaching around 1 per cent of GDP during its fourth term. The record economic growth led to huge windfalls in receipts from company income tax.

Falls in unemployment, jobs growth and wages growth greatly increased personal income tax receipts. While government expenditure as a proportion of GDP was fairly stable, albeit rising slightly, this has to be seen in the context of a switch from public provision of services to private provision. Consequently, there was less provision of government services but increasing government expenditure.

In the 2004-05 federal budget, treasurer Peter Costello announced the baby bonus, a lump sum payment of $3000 to parents receivable after the birth of each child. It has since risen from $3000 on commencement on July 1, 2004, to $4000 in 2005 and to $5000 on July 1, 2008, and is indexed to inflation. Wayne Swan subsequently reduced the baby bonus to $5000 from September 1, 2012, and to $3000 for second and subsequent children from mid-2013.

In the same budget there were other significant increases in benefits to families with children as well as tax cuts for all Australians. As more than one commentator pointed out, there was an incredible degree of giving with one hand and taking away with the other with inevitable administrative cost and waste.

The biggest single item of government expenditure is on social welfare. The majority of the recipients are middle income households due to the generosity of family payments. In 2007, even families with $100,000 in income were eligible for child support. In effect, what the Howard government built up is a system of massive transfers from middle income taxpayers back to middle income consumers. It might well have been more efficient to let these middle class households keep the money instead of paying extra tax.

In 2007, during the election campaign, further planned personal income tax cuts of $34 billion over five years were promised by both the Howard government and matched by Labor, with the latter firmly in its policy-copying “me too” election mode.

The result of policy-matching meant that the Howard government effectively locked  the next government into its tax reforms including raising tax thresholds and reducing the top tax rate of 45 cents per dollar, ultimately lowered to 40 cents per dollar.

https://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2013/5/8/federal-budget/how-howards...




This is the kind of ridiculous nonsense that bugs me about blind labor supporters. Howard took a debt riddled, deficit driven economy and turned it into a debt-free, surplus economy with a large bank balance. Labor takes over and in just 6 years we have the worst debt and deficit in our history and you want to blame Howard??

One of my big regrets was voting Howard out.  If he had stayed the GFC would have been met and conquered with little deficit and little debt and we would now be powering our way back to economic strength. Instead, we are languishing under the weight of heavy debt and massive unaffordable spending programs.
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Doctor Jolly
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #37 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 10:03am
 
Hockey could balance the budget today if he increased taxes and cut spending.


Why would he blame labor for a decade of deficits, when he has complete control to deficit or not ?
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #38 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 12:40pm
 
Doctor Jolly wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 10:03am:
Hockey could balance the budget today if he increased taxes and cut spending.


Why would he blame labor for a decade of deficits, when he has complete control to deficit or not ?


As could have Swan. Perhaps just like your own home budget, spending less than your income is easier said than done when you have been lumbered with massive commitments and debt by your predecessor.

I guess Abbott could cut all welfare or massively increase income tax.  Would that work for you?
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Stratos
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #39 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 1:37pm
 
Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 9:04am:
Stratos wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 10:17am:
While I agree that Labor had some very poor economic management at times, you need to realise that a healthy economy is NOT measured by the surplus or defecit.  Unfortunately, largely through the media, it is often presented this way, and people with a lack of understanding of macro economics see it as an irresponsible spender living beyond their means, while when it comes to a large economy, often the opposite is needed in times of hardship.

Pollies need to show some nerve and:

A) Stop caving in to pressure from the media regarding the actual importance of a defecit or surplus

B) Stop using these things as political point scoring mechanisms and break the cycle.

Spending money on wasteful things doesn't help much, as Labor has done in the past, but if you think cutting programs and spending, taking billions out of the economy is going to help, you are wrong indeed.


Surplus and deficit is not the way to determine health but continued deficits would suggest economic problems.  Likewise with debt, it has its place but if the long-term direction is more debt than it suggest the economic balance is wrong.


Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 9:04am:
Likewise with debt, it has its place but if the long-term direction is more debt than it suggest the economic balance is wrong.


Yep.  The main problem is perception.  Pollies have dug their own grave on this one by focusing on a surplus as the be all and end all of a good economy, despite there being times when a defecit is economically the right thing to do.  If both sides weren't so obsessed with scoring sound bites just maybe we might get somewhere meaningful in discussing the budget.
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #40 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 2:43pm
 
Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 9:15am:
FEDERAL Treasurer Joe Hockey says without deep cuts to spending in the budget Australia is heading for the longest period of continuing deficits in modern history. 
 
Treasury analysis predicts the country's deficits will stretch out to at least 2024 because of continued spending increases.

The warning provides a case for drastic cuts in the May budget, as the government on Monday received the final report from its Commission of Audit.

Mr Hockey said the government had to reduce expenditure, as well as try to increase revenue at the same time.

"Without changes to government spending the budget is in deficit for at least a decade," Mr Hockey told ABC radio.

"It would be the longest period of continuing deficits in modern history."

Asked if that meant the budget cuts had to be hard and deep, Mr Hockey said: "They've got to be fair, too".

"It is about making sure that everyone, everyone in the community helps to do the heavy lifting on repairing the budget," he said.

"This is not an ideological drive. This is about whether we want to simply sustain our quality of living, not even improve our quality of living.

"We have to make sure we live within our means."

Mr Hockey complained that Labor had left the government with "massive" spending increases in foreign aid and defence, and a poorly introduced National Disability Insurance Scheme.

"If we don't get on top of the proper management of the National Disability Insurance Scheme, not only would it not be sustainable, but it could end up as big a farce as the pink batts program or the $900 cheques program," he said.

The treasurer said the ageing population was also putting pressure on the budget.

When asked if it was sustainable to give a part pension to those with assets of more than a million dollars, Mr Hockey said "that's something that obviously needs to be taken into account".

"The aged pension is growing at a massive rate," he said.

"But also it's about our ageing population, and the fact is that we're living longer.

"The question is how do we sustain these sorts of payments, and ensure that they are sustainable in 10, 20 and 30 years time."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/breaking-news/australia-faces-decade-of-de...



So tell me arm_pit why should the government eg country be run like a business all the time.
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olde.sault
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #41 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 3:01pm
 
Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 10:04am:
Kat wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 9:43am:
John Smith wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 9:25am:
Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 9:16am:
This is what happens when you have an economic illiterate like Swan running the country's finances. Swan's attempt to spend his way out of trouble has just created more problems that Abbott/Hockey now have to try to deal with. Thanks for the massive debt, Wayne! Angry


why? because Hockey says so? .... does he even know how to turn on his calculator?  Grin Grin Grin Grin


How many times do this clown's BS claims about Swan, Labor and the economy
have to be refuted before it sinks in that he is dead wrong?

He is not posting a fact, or even an opinion, he is posting a proven, demonstrable
and acknowledged (world-wide, by experts) lie.

And he does so on an almost daily basis.

It may not be trolling, but in my book it's definitely spamming.


Wow, talk about delusional! What about Swan's $300bn+ debt? What about his numerous/record deficits? What about his wasteful spending? Swan is never going to be talked about in good terms as a former Treasurer, only the damage he did will be remembered - and there's plenty of that to be seen and felt even now!


There is a part of every leftoid's brain that is always blocked to fact - they are all the same and there is always a problem when a spouse votes conservatively--  Pity such unions!
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #42 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 3:06pm
 
crocodile wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 8:41am:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 1:07am:
buzzanddidj wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 12:58am:
[quote author=Andrei.Hicks link=1396221316/20#20 date=1396276299]Your comment Phil is as if you blame Howard and Costello (shock horror) for the fact that the current situation of budget deficits is ongoing.








buzzanddidj wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 5:07pm:
How
Howard's last budget
planted the
seeds of deficit







Question still stands - why in 2011 and a further 2 years did Wayne Swan promise categorically a budget surplus then?


Just a quick look at the 2011 budget papers.

http://www.budget.gov.au/2011-12/content/myefo/html/02_part_2-03.htm

It appears that the forward estimates from treasury were way off. Take a look at projected nominal GDP growth for 2012 and 2013 and you will see that treasury forecasts were 6.25% and 5% respectively.

History tells us that it was actually less than half these figures. Like it or not, that is the reason for the promised surpluses and their respective deterioration into deficits.


Leftoids only believe what sits comfortably in their blocked brains.

If you watch Q & A on Channel 2 you'' see all the leftoids always grinning which points to mental derangement.
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #43 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 3:12pm
 
cods wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 6:01am:
so single parents  were middle class welfare... I didnt know that.



Then perhaps you should stick to pink batts & tommo

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 9:10am:
Howard took a debt riddled, deficit driven economy and turned it into a debt-free, surplus economy with a large bank balance.


This is the kind of ridiculous nonsense that bugs me about blind liberal supporters.
Howard took on an economy that had been totally restructured & was still finding its feet.

Howard was gifted an infant modern economy which has grown into a robust teenager.



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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #44 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 3:18pm
 
Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 3:12pm:
cods wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 6:01am:
so single parents  were middle class welfare... I didnt know that.



Then perhaps you should stick to pink batts & tommo

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 9:10am:
Howard took a debt riddled, deficit driven economy and turned it into a debt-free, surplus economy with a large bank balance.


This is the kind of ridiculous nonsense that bugs me about blind liberal supporters.
Howard took on an economy that had been totally restructured & was still finding its feet.

Howard was gifted an infant modern economy which has grown into a robust teenager.





I have no doubt that "ridiculous nonsense" is a state you are quite comfortable with. Truth on the other hand seems to confuse you.
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