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Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits! (Read 4263 times)
Dsmithy70
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #45 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 3:28pm
 
Rhet-Oracle wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 3:18pm:
I have no doubt that "ridiculous nonsense" is a state you are quite comfortable with. Truth on the other hand seems to confuse you.



Please educate me O Oracle.

Show me where my delusion lies

It will require more than oft quoted "17% interest rates" as if that's enough said.

I want details, I want comparisons

I CRAVE LEARNING & KNOWLEDGE.
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Doctor Jolly
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #46 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 3:38pm
 
Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 12:40pm:
Doctor Jolly wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 10:03am:
Hockey could balance the budget today if he increased taxes and cut spending.


Why would he blame labor for a decade of deficits, when he has complete control to deficit or not ?


As could have Swan. Perhaps just like your own home budget, spending less than your income is easier said than done when you have been lumbered with massive commitments and debt by your predecessor.

I guess Abbott could cut all welfare or massively increase income tax.  Would that work for you?


He could if he wanted a surplus.  It wouldnt be that big a cut. 
We have a 1 trillion dollar economy. We are talking about balancing that to within a few billion (less than 1%).   With that sort of leverage, in a dynamic world economy, forward estimates are very difficult to predict.

Swan found that out the hard way.  His forward estimates became flawed once tax revenue's dried up by a relatively small amount in the trillion dollars, but big enough to drive a deficit in the billions.

The added problem was Howard (and Swans) move from more stable tax base (income) to a more volatile tax base (trade), so the tax revenue is much more dynamic than it was in the 1980's.

Australia needs to ride out the storms.  Hockey saying he cant get a surplus for 10 years because of labor is rubish.  Hockey not aiming for a surplus for 10 years is because he hasnt got the knackers to ride it out, or is too timid change things too much.

He just ordered enough fighter jets to comfortably bring in a surplus. He's putting in a parental leave program which without it, could deliver a surplus.  You think he really wants a surplus ?
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Armchair_Politician
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #47 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 3:56pm
 
John S wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 2:43pm:
Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 9:15am:
FEDERAL Treasurer Joe Hockey says without deep cuts to spending in the budget Australia is heading for the longest period of continuing deficits in modern history. 
 
Treasury analysis predicts the country's deficits will stretch out to at least 2024 because of continued spending increases.

The warning provides a case for drastic cuts in the May budget, as the government on Monday received the final report from its Commission of Audit.

Mr Hockey said the government had to reduce expenditure, as well as try to increase revenue at the same time.

"Without changes to government spending the budget is in deficit for at least a decade," Mr Hockey told ABC radio.

"It would be the longest period of continuing deficits in modern history."

Asked if that meant the budget cuts had to be hard and deep, Mr Hockey said: "They've got to be fair, too".

"It is about making sure that everyone, everyone in the community helps to do the heavy lifting on repairing the budget," he said.

"This is not an ideological drive. This is about whether we want to simply sustain our quality of living, not even improve our quality of living.

"We have to make sure we live within our means."

Mr Hockey complained that Labor had left the government with "massive" spending increases in foreign aid and defence, and a poorly introduced National Disability Insurance Scheme.

"If we don't get on top of the proper management of the National Disability Insurance Scheme, not only would it not be sustainable, but it could end up as big a farce as the pink batts program or the $900 cheques program," he said.

The treasurer said the ageing population was also putting pressure on the budget.

When asked if it was sustainable to give a part pension to those with assets of more than a million dollars, Mr Hockey said "that's something that obviously needs to be taken into account".

"The aged pension is growing at a massive rate," he said.

"But also it's about our ageing population, and the fact is that we're living longer.

"The question is how do we sustain these sorts of payments, and ensure that they are sustainable in 10, 20 and 30 years time."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/breaking-news/australia-faces-decade-of-de...



So tell me arm_pit why should the government eg country be run like a business all the time.


Good idea, lets run it like Zimbabwe, where in late January 2013, they had an appalling $217 (yes, two hundred and seventeen dollars) in the Treasury and inflation was around the 30% mark not all that long ago. Good thinking!  Roll Eyes
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Dsmithy70
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #48 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 4:06pm
 
Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 3:56pm:
Good idea, lets run it like Zimbabwe, where in late January 2013, they had an appalling $217 (yes, two hundred and seventeen dollars) in the Treasury and inflation was around the 30% mark not all that long ago. Good thinking!



That's not the answer to the question teaspoon.

If you don't actually understand & are just parroting what you have heard/read from Newscorp just say so, there's plenty of leeway given to those who admit their ignorance.
Otherwise post up why about 30% of our nation should be thrown onto the scrapheap & left to starve because just like a racehorse who costs more to feed than he wins it would be cheaper to kill them which is exactly what a BUSINESS would do.
Cut losses

How does that sort of thinking advance our society, how does it advance us as individuals?
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REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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Rhet-Oracle
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #49 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 4:06pm
 
Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 3:28pm:
Rhet-Oracle wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 3:18pm:
I have no doubt that "ridiculous nonsense" is a state you are quite comfortable with. Truth on the other hand seems to confuse you.



Please educate me O Oracle.

Show me where my delusion lies

It will require more than oft quoted "17% interest rates" as if that's enough said.

I want details, I want comparisons

I CRAVE LEARNING & KNOWLEDGE.


Quote:
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”
Søren Kierkegaard


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Dsmithy70
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #50 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 4:07pm
 
Whats that supposed to be?

An answer?
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Karnal
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #51 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 4:13pm
 
Here's an answer, leftards.

STOP THE LABOR WASTE.


Any leftard doesn't like it, they can take it up with Mr Abbott.
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Bread and Butter
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #52 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 4:35pm
 
Stratos wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 1:37pm:
Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 9:04am:
Stratos wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 10:17am:
While I agree that Labor had some very poor economic management at times, you need to realise that a healthy economy is NOT measured by the surplus or defecit.  Unfortunately, largely through the media, it is often presented this way, and people with a lack of understanding of macro economics see it as an irresponsible spender living beyond their means, while when it comes to a large economy, often the opposite is needed in times of hardship.

Pollies need to show some nerve and:

A) Stop caving in to pressure from the media regarding the actual importance of a defecit or surplus

B) Stop using these things as political point scoring mechanisms and break the cycle.

Spending money on wasteful things doesn't help much, as Labor has done in the past, but if you think cutting programs and spending, taking billions out of the economy is going to help, you are wrong indeed.


Surplus and deficit is not the way to determine health but continued deficits would suggest economic problems.  Likewise with debt, it has its place but if the long-term direction is more debt than it suggest the economic balance is wrong.


Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 9:04am:
Likewise with debt, it has its place but if the long-term direction is more debt than it suggest the economic balance is wrong.


Yep.  The main problem is perception.  Pollies have dug their own grave on this one by focusing on a surplus as the be all and end all of a good economy, despite there being times when a defecit is economically the right thing to do.  If both sides weren't so obsessed with scoring sound bites just maybe we might get somewhere meaningful in discussing the budget.


You make a good point, but to be fair there has been the Labor party trying to criticise Howard for surpluses and then pretending that their own record deficits were of no consequence.

Real life teaches any family, group company or govt that there will be times when deficit spending is unavoidable.  But likewise, it cannot be continued for very long or else problems - usually bankruptcy - will emerge.  It is this latter point that Labor seems incapable of understanding. Keating was a vastly better treasurer than Swan and while he left debt and deficit he at least understood why and did not pretend that it was good as the current crop of lightweights do.
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Bread and Butter
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #53 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 4:38pm
 
Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 3:12pm:
cods wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 6:01am:
so single parents  were middle class welfare... I didnt know that.



Then perhaps you should stick to pink batts & tommo

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 9:10am:
Howard took a debt riddled, deficit driven economy and turned it into a debt-free, surplus economy with a large bank balance.


This is the kind of ridiculous nonsense that bugs me about blind liberal supporters.
Howard took on an economy that had been totally restructured & was still finding its feet.

Howard was gifted an infant modern economy which has grown into a robust teenager.





and what bugs me is the naivete that infects such limp commentary. You called it 'nonsense' and I invite you to find a single factually incorrect portion of what I said and you quoted. Opinion an comment might vary but facts don't.

Challenge?
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Bread and Butter
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #54 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 4:40pm
 
Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 3:28pm:
Rhet-Oracle wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 3:18pm:
I have no doubt that "ridiculous nonsense" is a state you are quite comfortable with. Truth on the other hand seems to confuse you.



Please educate me O Oracle.

Show me where my delusion lies

It will require more than oft quoted "17% interest rates" as if that's enough said.

I want details, I want comparisons

I CRAVE LEARNING & KNOWLEDGE.


I said

a) budget was in substantial surplus.
b) debt was gone (net debt obviously in case of an attack of pedantry)
c) money was in the bank
d) prior to 96 the country was heavily in debt
e) prior to 96 the country was running a high deficit.

Please tell me any of the above that was incorrect.
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #55 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 4:43pm
 
Karnal wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 4:13pm:
Here's an answer, leftards.

STOP THE LABOR WASTE.


Any leftard doesn't like it, they can take it up with Mr Abbott.


Oh, DO sod off.

You're becoming as tiresome as Arm-pit et al.

EDIT: An apology. NO-ONE could be THAT tiresome.
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...
 
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Dnarever
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #56 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 6:52pm
 
All this Hockey BS and yet no mini Budget to start in the right direction when he took over ???

The Liberals deficits are all their own.

The Libs have opened up unlimited and unaccountable borrowing and have the plans to use it on their spending programs.
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True Colours
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #57 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 7:06pm
 
Quote:
Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!




So Abbott's baby bonus for billionaires program and tax cuts for mining magnates and other wealthy folks have nothing to do with the deficit?

If the deficit is so bad why is Abbott putting his foot on the accelerator and driving us over the cliff with his maternity leave scheme and the scrapping of the mining and carbon taxes?

Getting rid of the negative gearing tax rort would help a lot too.
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #58 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 7:19pm
 
Quote:
...Treasurer Joe Hockey has been softening us up for the tough budget he’s preparing for next month...he’s studiously avoiding admitting there’s no way his spending cuts will get the budget back into lasting balance. He’s pretending all the problem is on the spending side (and all caused by Labor), when he knows the problem on the budget’s revenue side is just as big, if not worse.

Consider the facts. Collections from company tax – which account for about a fifth of total tax collections – aren’t likely to grow any faster than the economy (gross domestic product). And collections from indirect taxes – which include the goods and services tax and excises on alcohol, tobacco and petrol – are likely to grow a lot more slowly than GDP.

Collections from excises are declining relative to the rest of the economy, partly because John Howard abolished the indexation of the petrol excise...

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/joe-hockeys-budget-will-hurt-your-hip-pocket-20140401-zqp7v.html
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Re: Labor's legacy: a decade of deficits!
Reply #59 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 8:22pm
 
Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 7:10am:
perceptions_now wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 11:18pm:
Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 9:15am:
FEDERAL Treasurer Joe Hockey says without deep cuts to spending in the budget Australia is heading for the longest period of continuing deficits in modern history. 
 
Treasury analysis predicts the country's deficits will stretch out to at least 2024 because of continued spending increases.

The warning provides a case for drastic cuts in the May budget, as the government on Monday received the final report from its Commission of Audit.

Mr Hockey said the government had to reduce expenditure, as well as try to increase revenue at the same time.

"Without changes to government spending the budget is in deficit for at least a decade," Mr Hockey told ABC radio.

"It would be the longest period of continuing deficits in modern history."


Asked if that meant the budget cuts had to be hard and deep, Mr Hockey said: "They've got to be fair, too".

"It is about making sure that everyone, everyone in the community helps to do the heavy lifting on repairing the budget," he said.

"This is not an ideological drive. This is about whether we want to simply sustain our quality of living, not even improve our quality of living.

"We have to make sure we live within our means."

Mr Hockey complained that Labor had left the government with "massive" spending increases in foreign aid and defence, and a poorly introduced National Disability Insurance Scheme.

"If we don't get on top of the proper management of the National Disability Insurance Scheme, not only would it not be sustainable, but it could end up as big a farce as the pink batts program or the $900 cheques program," he said.

The treasurer said the ageing population was also putting pressure on the budget.

When asked if it was sustainable to give a part pension to those with assets of more than a million dollars, Mr Hockey said "that's something that obviously needs to be taken into account".

"The aged pension is growing at a massive rate," he said.

"But also it's about our ageing population, and the fact is that we're living longer.

"The question is how do we sustain these sorts of payments, and ensure that they are sustainable in 10, 20 and 30 years time."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/breaking-news/australia-faces-decade-of-de...


With OR without changes to government spending, IT IS VERY LIKELY THAT THE OZ BUDGET WILL BE IN DEFICIT FOR AT LEAST THE NEXT DECADE & QUITE POSSIBLY MORE, MUCH MORE!

AND, before anyone gets OVER-EXCITED, this calamity has arisen not just from OZ Labor, but also from OZ Liberals/Nationals AND from Labor/Liberal counterparts in many other countries, over many decades AND because WE/ THE PUBLIC swallowed to much -
C
redible
R
eliable
A
bundant
P
aradoxes
for far too long, from Politicians of all persuasions!



Oh, I forgot that you have a Masters in Economics and worked for decades in the finance industry that gives you such credibility to overrule the advice given to Hockey. Swan couldn't find his ass with both hands and a map. Unlike Swan, who has zero real-world experience in finance, Hockey was (prior to commencing his political career) a banking and finance lawyer. What qualifications do you have, besides your Masters in Economics???


Well, forgetting about my decades in the financial sector, the main thing that is needed is simply not to accept whatever is put to you, but to review the "so called facts", whatever that may be & see if reality matched up with the assertion AND IN MANY INSTANCES, WHAT POLITICIANS FROM ALL PERSUASIONS & ECONOMISTS ARE SAYING & HAVE SAID, IS WRONG!

As I have said previously, the major factors influencing Global & Local Economics are -
1) Demographics
2) Energy Supply
3) Technology
3) Climate Change


Oh & btw, I did spend over 4 decades in the financial sector and I did learn to accept nothing at face value & to question everything!

That said, I accept that Swan (& his lot) did very little right & even though Hockey (& his lot) is of the right, he also is doing very little right!
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