Australian Politics Forum - CFMEU fined $1.25m for defying Court

Dsmithy70

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Re: CFMEU fined $1.25m for defying Court
Reply #30 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:04am

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:19am:

In the meantime, the union from the OP engaged in illegal and obstructive behaviour and have been fined properly as a result. Care to comment?

Sure my example was to highlight the difference of treatment between "Building Unions" & "Building Companies"

The company illegally erected a sign which caused the death of 3 people walking down the street.

Quote:

The Herald Sun revealed in April that there were significant cracks in the base of the brick wall at least four months before it fell.

The City of Melbourne also confirmed that Grocon did not have a permit to attach a wooden hoarding to the wall.

Grocon have quite a few safety related issues & not just highlighted by Unions

Quote:

Builder Grocon's safety record has been attacked by a senior executive of one of Australia's biggest developers.

Leaked emails between senior executives at property developer Mirvac and Grocon reveal there were serious concerns through 2012 and 2011 about Grocon's work on a $200 million Docklands apartment project known as Tower 8.

The leaked emails will again place the spotlight on Grocon's safety record. It has come under scrutiny after the deaths in March of three pedestrians who were walking past Grocon's CUB site in Swanston Street when a wall collapsed on them.

Grocon's work as a builder on Mirvac's Tower 8 project was subject to complaints made by Mirvac's then project manager, Dominic McCarthy, about poor safety practices and intimidation.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/property/grocon-had-little-regard-for-safety-2013...

I thought intimidation was a union practice?? Huh

Quote:

Since the protest outside the Myer Emporium last August it has been one saftey shocker after another from Grocon.

March 28: Wall collapse Swanston St, 3 dead

March 25: Worker skewered in leg by reo bar following scaffold collapse, Myer Emporium site, Lonsdale St

March 21: Crane crews forced to work in 96km/h winds. Load dropped at cancer centre site putting crane out of action and riggers sent out to change crane ropes at Russell St

March 13: Blowout occurs while tensioning slab at Emporium site

February 18: Crane operator Bill Ramsay falls to his death at Emporium site

December 2012: Formwork collapse during concrete pour, Emporium site

October – December 2012: Excavation at cancer centre site undermines and cracks Royal Pde, closing it to traffic for months .

28 September 2012: Dogman’s load struck by lightning after crane works through electrical storm, Emporium

26 September 2012: Carpenter severs finger after being required to dog tower crane illegally, Footscray

Over the past 6 months CFMEU safety advisers have been called to Grocon sites more than 30 times. Grocon management has tried to stop our advisers entering and doing their work.

This is why the CFMEU will never give up our fight to have OHS and union reps elected on Grocon’s sites.

Safety – No Compromise!

So here we have a company that's illegally erected a billboard which contributed to the death of 3 innocent people, has other building companies calling them out for unsafe work practices & intimidation.

But who cops a fine?? The union representing the workers who are regularly killed & injured on site.

And here we have yet again a partisan political hack (trying) to score points because it apparently advantages his party if Unions are destroyed.

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REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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imcrookonit

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Re: CFMEU fined $1.25m for defying Court
Reply #31 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:07am

Supreme Court Hands Down Grocon Penalty

Statement by John Setka, CFMEU Secretary

The CFMEU was fined $1.25 million today in the Supreme Court over the protest at the Grocon Myer Emporium site in 2012.

The protest at the Myer site was about safety.

That's a matter of life and death for building workers. Since 2012, 23 workers have died on construction sites.

Building workers need someone on site who genuinely represents their interests, and that doesn't happen when that person is hand-picked by the boss.

The union is not seeking to be above the law. We want to save lives.

John Setka
CFMEU Secretary

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Bread and Butter

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Re: CFMEU fined $1.25m for defying Court
Reply #32 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:09am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:04am:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:19am:

In the meantime, the union from the OP engaged in illegal and obstructive behaviour and have been fined properly as a result. Care to comment?

Sure my example was to highlight the difference of treatment between "Building Unions" & "Building Companies"

The company illegally erected a sign which caused the death of 3 people walking down the street.

Quote:

The Herald Sun revealed in April that there were significant cracks in the base of the brick wall at least four months before it fell.

The City of Melbourne also confirmed that Grocon did not have a permit to attach a wooden hoarding to the wall.

Grocon have quite a few safety related issues & not just highlighted by Unions

Quote:

Builder Grocon's safety record has been attacked by a senior executive of one of Australia's biggest developers.

Leaked emails between senior executives at property developer Mirvac and Grocon reveal there were serious concerns through 2012 and 2011 about Grocon's work on a $200 million Docklands apartment project known as Tower 8.

The leaked emails will again place the spotlight on Grocon's safety record. It has come under scrutiny after the deaths in March of three pedestrians who were walking past Grocon's CUB site in Swanston Street when a wall collapsed on them.

Grocon's work as a builder on Mirvac's Tower 8 project was subject to complaints made by Mirvac's then project manager, Dominic McCarthy, about poor safety practices and intimidation.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/property/grocon-had-little-regard-for-safety-2013...

I thought intimidation was a union practice?? Huh

Quote:

Since the protest outside the Myer Emporium last August it has been one saftey shocker after another from Grocon.

March 28: Wall collapse Swanston St, 3 dead

March 25: Worker skewered in leg by reo bar following scaffold collapse, Myer Emporium site, Lonsdale St

March 21: Crane crews forced to work in 96km/h winds. Load dropped at cancer centre site putting crane out of action and riggers sent out to change crane ropes at Russell St

March 13: Blowout occurs while tensioning slab at Emporium site

February 18: Crane operator Bill Ramsay falls to his death at Emporium site

December 2012: Formwork collapse during concrete pour, Emporium site

October – December 2012: Excavation at cancer centre site undermines and cracks Royal Pde, closing it to traffic for months .

28 September 2012: Dogman’s load struck by lightning after crane works through electrical storm, Emporium

26 September 2012: Carpenter severs finger after being required to dog tower crane illegally, Footscray

Over the past 6 months CFMEU safety advisers have been called to Grocon sites more than 30 times. Grocon management has tried to stop our advisers entering and doing their work.

This is why the CFMEU will never give up our fight to have OHS and union reps elected on Grocon’s sites.

Safety – No Compromise!

So here we have a company that's illegally erected a billboard which contributed to the death of 3 innocent people, has other building companies calling them out for unsafe work practices & intimidation.

But who cops a fine?? The union representing the workers who are regularly killed & injured on site.

And here we have yet again a partisan political hack (trying) to score points because it apparently advantages his party if Unions are destroyed.

And if you were willing to discuss BOTH issues you might have a point but so far all you have done is come across as a political hack yourself. The building company clearly broke some regulations and no one and certainly not me, is arguing otherwise but if you read the OP you would see that is not the topic at hand.

Deflections are poor form in any debate and usually indicate a lack of knowledge of the topic of recognition that their position lacks substance.

Now, are you going to address the topic or continue your obvious and weak deflection?

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Dsmithy70

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Re: CFMEU fined $1.25m for defying Court
Reply #33 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:31am

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:09am:

And if you were willing to discuss BOTH issues you might have a point but so far all you have done is come across as a political hack yourself. The building company clearly broke some regulations and no one and certainly not me, is arguing otherwise but if you read the OP you would see that is not the topic at hand.

Deflections are poor form in any debate and usually indicate a lack of knowledge of the topic of recognition that their position lacks substance.

Now, are you going to address the topic or continue your obvious and weak deflection?

Wow are you serious?

You wish to debate substance & policy rather than just throw mud?

I hope you stick around whether your actually new or a sock trying something new(250 posts in 4 days suggests the latter).

As for the topic, the union defied a court order & have been subsequently fined, I think the fine is rather heavy considering the circumstance & the companies Work safety history but if we wish to maintain a society you just can't thumb your nose at the courts.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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Bread and Butter

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Re: CFMEU fined $1.25m for defying Court
Reply #34 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:48am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:31am:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:09am:

And if you were willing to discuss BOTH issues you might have a point but so far all you have done is come across as a political hack yourself. The building company clearly broke some regulations and no one and certainly not me, is arguing otherwise but if you read the OP you would see that is not the topic at hand.

Deflections are poor form in any debate and usually indicate a lack of knowledge of the topic of recognition that their position lacks substance.

Now, are you going to address the topic or continue your obvious and weak deflection?

Wow are you serious?

You wish to debate substance & policy rather than just throw mud?

I hope you stick around whether your actually new or a sock trying something new(250 posts in 4 days suggests the latter).

As for the topic, the union defied a court order & have been subsequently fined, I think the fine is rather heavy considering the circumstance & the companies Work safety history but if we wish to maintain a society you just can't thumb your nose at the courts.

So in the final sentence you actually addressed the OP. Congrats!

Now, if calling your blatant deflection as 'deflection' is your idea of throwing mud then I pity you. It is what it is and if you don't want more such' mud' then stick to the topic. Start a topic on work safety if you want and you might even find me largely in agreement. But your posts were and remain nothing more than a deflection.

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Dsmithy70 Gold Member Offline ire futuis vobismetipsis Posts: 13147 Newy Gender:	Re: CFMEU fined $1.25m for defying Court Reply #35 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 12:04pm Call it what you want, frankly I wasn't even addressing the topic but the poster. You remind me of someone but I'm leaving for a longweekend of poker. Hopefully I'll get the gold Medal
Back to top	REBELLION is not what most people think it is. REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself. Gavin Nascimento IP Logged

mantra

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Re: CFMEU fined $1.25m for defying Court
Reply #36 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 12:10pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:31am:

Wow are you serious?

You wish to debate substance & policy rather than just throw mud?

I hope you stick around whether your actually new or a sock trying something new(250 posts in 4 days suggests the latter).

They slip up eventually. A quote from the "Clarity of insults" thread....

Quote:

Don't confuse the swear word filter with the other rules. The rules about insults are context dependent.

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Bread and Butter

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Re: CFMEU fined $1.25m for defying Court
Reply #37 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 12:12pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 12:04pm:

Call it what you want, frankly I wasn't even addressing the topic but the poster.

You remind me of someone but I'm leaving for a longweekend of poker.
Hopefully I'll get the gold Medal

Addressing the poster and not the topic is hardly an improvement.

Enjoy your poker. Win big.

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John Smith

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Re: CFMEU fined $1.25m for defying Court
Reply #38 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:07pm

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:21am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 4:31pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 4:29pm:

Frances wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 4:08pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 12:34pm:

When will you reign in these militant unions, Electricity Bill? When?

Once Abbott reins in the militant corporations maybe?

Corporations are subject to normal business laws/governance. Unions operate with no such oversight, except (laughably) their own). Hence the incidences of corruption such as Thomson and Williamson...

Unions aren't subject to business laws and have no oversight? Pray tell !!

So under what laws were thommo and Williamson charged? Chinas?

You many be unaware but one of the industrial laws that Abbott proposes and the union and labor opposes is to make Unions come under the same governance and financial responsibility laws as ever other company. They are treated differently.

don't tell me you also believe they have no laws governing them? Grin

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith

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Re: CFMEU fined $1.25m for defying Court
Reply #39 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:10pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 12:04pm:

Call it what you want, frankly I wasn't even addressing the topic but the poster.

You remind me of someone but I'm leaving for a longweekend of poker.
Hopefully I'll get the gold Medal

nah ... its not longweekend ... I and some others had a run in with B&B the other day and he didn't once call anyone stupid ... it can't be longy

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Bread and Butter

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Re: CFMEU fined $1.25m for defying Court
Reply #40 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:10pm

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:07pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:21am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 4:31pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 4:29pm:

Frances wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 4:08pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 12:34pm:

When will you reign in these militant unions, Electricity Bill? When?

Once Abbott reins in the militant corporations maybe?

Corporations are subject to normal business laws/governance. Unions operate with no such oversight, except (laughably) their own). Hence the incidences of corruption such as Thomson and Williamson...

Unions aren't subject to business laws and have no oversight? Pray tell !!

So under what laws were thommo and Williamson charged? Chinas?

You many be unaware but one of the industrial laws that Abbott proposes and the union and labor opposes is to make Unions come under the same governance and financial responsibility laws as ever other company. They are treated differently.

don't tell me you also believe they have no laws governing them? Grin

I don't. But then again you didn't read my post correctly.

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John Smith

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Re: CFMEU fined $1.25m for defying Court
Reply #41 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 5:49pm

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:10pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:07pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:21am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 4:31pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 4:29pm:

Frances wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 4:08pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 12:34pm:

When will you reign in these militant unions, Electricity Bill? When?

Once Abbott reins in the militant corporations maybe?

Corporations are subject to normal business laws/governance. Unions operate with no such oversight, except (laughably) their own). Hence the incidences of corruption such as Thomson and Williamson...

Unions aren't subject to business laws and have no oversight? Pray tell !!

So under what laws were thommo and Williamson charged? Chinas?

You many be unaware but one of the industrial laws that Abbott proposes and the union and labor opposes is to make Unions come under the same governance and financial responsibility laws as ever other company. They are treated differently.

don't tell me you also believe they have no laws governing them? Grin

I don't. But then again you didn't read my post correctly.

No I read your post, it is you who either can't read or doesn't understand what he is reading.

The claim was unions aren't covered by business laws and have no oversight ... perhaps you could respond to that claim?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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