Australian Politics Forum - Time for Abbott's wake up call

Gnads

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Re: Time for Abbott's wake up call
Reply #15 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:19am

Pantheon wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:02am:

The less assets the Government owns the better, but at the same time, there needs to be check and balances to percent monopoly from developing, basic capitalism 101.

Privately owned business and assets have a profit incentive to cut costs and be more efficient. If you work for a government run industry, managers do not usually share in any profits. However, a private firm is interested in making profit and so it is more likely to cut costs and be efficient.

Also Often state own business and assets are open to Political Interference. They are motivated by political pressures rather than sound economic and business sense. For example a state enterprise may employ surplus workers which is inefficient. The government may be reluctant to get rid of the workers because of the negative publicity involved in job losses. Therefore, state owned enterprises often employ too many workers increasing inefficiency.

Selling assets off will reduce the burden on government, If worst comes to worst, we can just re-nationalized it all from national and international owners.

Essential services such as electricity, gas & water supply should never be in the hands of private enterprise.

Since the introduction of the "Competition Policies" .... where have you seen any benefits to consumers in reduced pricing caused by "said" competition?

The only saving & cost cutting is to the benefit of the company as they slash & burn to cut costs, increase profits & charge consumers more.

If a claim(privatisation & increased competition = cheaper prices & more employment) is proven to be false then why do people like you keep espousing it's benefits?

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Time for Abbott's wake up call
Reply #16 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:21am

Rubin wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 7:01pm:

red baron wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 6:52pm:

The problem is that you vote for a Party on their policies then they go power crazy and lose sight of what it was that put them in, in the first place.

Labor self destructed in exactly the same manner. Roll Eyes

This comment is absolutely spot on.

This is why we will have one term state and federal governments for decades to come. They are the same so we vote one bad lot out just to replace them with another bad lot.

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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Kat

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Socialism IS the answer.

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Re: Time for Abbott's wake up call
Reply #17 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:37am

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:21am:

Rubin wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 7:01pm:

red baron wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 6:52pm:

The problem is that you vote for a Party on their policies then they go power crazy and lose sight of what it was that put them in, in the first place.

Labor self destructed in exactly the same manner. Roll Eyes

This comment is absolutely spot on.

This is why we will have one term state and federal governments for decades to come. They are the same so we vote one bad lot out just to replace them with another bad lot.

And they never seem to learn from their mistakes.

The Maggot's attempts to sneak the rotting, mouldering corpse of Work(no)Choices in
through the back door despite it being a primary reason for the fools losing power last
time, for example.

Labor (both federally and here in NSW) appears to be at least trying to, but all the Libs
are interested in doing is expanding and compounding theirs.

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Pantheon

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Re: Time for Abbott's wake up call
Reply #18 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:41am

Gnads wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:19am:

Pantheon wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:02am:

The less assets the Government owns the better, but at the same time, there needs to be check and balances to percent monopoly from developing, basic capitalism 101.

Privately owned business and assets have a profit incentive to cut costs and be more efficient. If you work for a government run industry, managers do not usually share in any profits. However, a private firm is interested in making profit and so it is more likely to cut costs and be efficient.

Also Often state own business and assets are open to Political Interference. They are motivated by political pressures rather than sound economic and business sense. For example a state enterprise may employ surplus workers which is inefficient. The government may be reluctant to get rid of the workers because of the negative publicity involved in job losses. Therefore, state owned enterprises often employ too many workers increasing inefficiency.

Selling assets off will reduce the burden on government, If worst comes to worst, we can just re-nationalized it all from national and international owners.

Essential services such as electricity, gas & water supply should never be in the hands of private enterprise.

Since the introduction of the "Competition Policies" .... where have you seen any benefits to consumers in reduced pricing caused by "said" competition?

The only saving & cost cutting is to the benefit of the company as they slash & burn to cut costs, increase profits & charge consumers more.

If a claim(privatisation & increased competition = cheaper prices & more employment) is proven to be false then why do people like you keep espousing it's benefits?

First what Competition Policies? All i see is regulation that benefit the large corporation and support current monopoly (both Labor and Liberals)

And charging consumers more is counterproductive and only large corporation and monopolies are able to get away with that. If prices are to high you would just stop buying that product and your the cheaper competitor's produced, in our system of large corporation and monopolies we don't have that Luxury and there can be ripped off.

And we can say the same thing about socialism, a system that has always payed its workers lest than capitalist counties have, made them work in worst conditions and of collapse after 80 years, compare to capitalist 250 years and counting.

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[b][center]Socialism had been tried on every continent on earth. In light of its results, it's time to question the motives of its advocates.

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woody2014

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Re: Time for Abbott's wake up call
Reply #19 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:41am

Kat wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:37am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:21am:

Rubin wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 7:01pm:

red baron wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 6:52pm:

The problem is that you vote for a Party on their policies then they go power crazy and lose sight of what it was that put them in, in the first place.

Labor self destructed in exactly the same manner. Roll Eyes

This comment is absolutely spot on.

This is why we will have one term state and federal governments for decades to come. They are the same so we vote one bad lot out just to replace them with another bad lot.

And they never seem to learn from their mistakes.

The Maggot's attempts to sneak the rotting, mouldering corpse of Work(no)Choices in
through the back door despite it being a primary reason for the fools losing power last
time, for example.

Labor (both federally and here in NSW) appears to be at least trying to, but all the Libs
are interested in doing is expanding and compounding theirs.

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THE DUMB LEFTIES ON THIS BOARD DONT KNOW IF THERE WINDING THEIR ARSE OR SCRATCHING THEIR WATCH

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Bread and Butter

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Re: Time for Abbott's wake up call
Reply #20 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:52am

I am old enough to remember the pre-privatisation days and they are not quite as golden as you recall. Power blackouts, while not common pre se, were not Uncommon. Now they virtually only occur due to accidents such as cars taking down poles or the rare transmission failure after which the alternative supply lines come into play within minutes - something that is relatively recent.

Yes, it is more expensive now, but I think blaming private enterprise for that is a bit convenient.

I remember banking when it was government regulated and partly government owned and getting a loan was a nightmare. banking hours were between 1 and 2pm on alternative Fridays.

Water supply is now significantly more reliable and of better quality.

I say these things to remind those on here that there is no evidence privatisation is intrinsically bad. There have been some bad examples but also some good ones, as identified above. The opinion expressed by many of you that somehow govt owned business is more effective, more profitable and more likely to innovate and provide better service is at all odds to history.

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Kat

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Socialism IS the answer.

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Re: Time for Abbott's wake up call
Reply #21 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:53am

woody2014 wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:41am:

Kat wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:37am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:21am:

Rubin wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 7:01pm:

red baron wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 6:52pm:

The problem is that you vote for a Party on their policies then they go power crazy and lose sight of what it was that put them in, in the first place.

Labor self destructed in exactly the same manner. Roll Eyes

This comment is absolutely spot on.

This is why we will have one term state and federal governments for decades to come. They are the same so we vote one bad lot out just to replace them with another bad lot.

And they never seem to learn from their mistakes.

The Maggot's attempts to sneak the rotting, mouldering corpse of Work(no)Choices in
through the back door despite it being a primary reason for the fools losing power last
time, for example.

Labor (both federally and here in NSW) appears to be at least trying to, but all the Libs
are interested in doing is expanding and compounding theirs.

Yes, yuck it up, clown, while you can.

The Emperor's lack of sartorial accoutrements is becoming more obvious by the day
and it's funny watching you fanbois still blindly supporting the unsupportable.

The 'swinging voters' are beginning to realise that they voted for an abject failure
but you rusted-ons will never see, because you won't look.

Give the grubs another year, and it's a fair bet that their only remaining supporters
will be the aforementioned ignorant rusted-ons.

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scotty 1969 Full Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 135 melbourne Gender:	Re: Time for Abbott's wake up call Reply #22 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:59am the working and middle class in this country is in dire need of a third party. none of the parties truly represent their interests.
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Bread and Butter Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 390 Gender:	Re: Time for Abbott's wake up call Reply #23 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:04am scotty 1969 wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:59am: the working and middle class in this country is in dire need of a third party. none of the parties truly represent their interests. And what interests are those? Let me think: tax the rich, penalise the rich, nationalise their companies. Right?
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Kat

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Socialism IS the answer.

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Re: Time for Abbott's wake up call
Reply #24 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:10am

Pantheon wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:41am:

Gnads wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:19am:

Pantheon wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:02am:

The less assets the Government owns the better, but at the same time, there needs to be check and balances to percent monopoly from developing, basic capitalism 101.

Privately owned business and assets have a profit incentive to cut costs and be more efficient. If you work for a government run industry, managers do not usually share in any profits. However, a private firm is interested in making profit and so it is more likely to cut costs and be efficient.

Also Often state own business and assets are open to Political Interference. They are motivated by political pressures rather than sound economic and business sense. For example a state enterprise may employ surplus workers which is inefficient. The government may be reluctant to get rid of the workers because of the negative publicity involved in job losses. Therefore, state owned enterprises often employ too many workers increasing inefficiency.

Selling assets off will reduce the burden on government, If worst comes to worst, we can just re-nationalized it all from national and international owners.

Essential services such as electricity, gas & water supply should never be in the hands of private enterprise.

Since the introduction of the "Competition Policies" .... where have you seen any benefits to consumers in reduced pricing caused by "said" competition?

The only saving & cost cutting is to the benefit of the company as they slash & burn to cut costs, increase profits & charge consumers more.

If a claim(privatisation & increased competition = cheaper prices & more employment) is proven to be false then why do people like you keep espousing it's benefits?

First what Competition Policies? All i see is regulation that benefit the large corporation and support current monopoly (both Labor and Liberals)

And charging consumers more is counterproductive and only large corporation and monopolies are able to get away with that. If prices are to high you would just stop buying that product and your the cheaper competitor's produced, in our system of large corporation and monopolies we don't have that Luxury and there can be ripped off.

And we can say the same thing about socialism, a system that has always payed its workers lest than capitalist counties have, made them work in worst conditions and of collapse after 80 years, compare to capitalist 250 years and counting.

That was Communism, not socialism.

Communism (or Socialism - capital S) is not the same thing as socialism (lower-case s).

Not the same thing at all, no-where near it, in fact.

Without an element of socialism, capitalism turns into the fascism we currently suffer
under here and in the UK (for example).

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Time for Abbott's wake up call
Reply #25 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:17am

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:52am:

I am old enough to remember the pre-privatisation days and they are not quite as golden as you recall. Power blackouts, while not common pre se, were not Uncommon. Now they virtually only occur due to accidents such as cars taking down poles or the rare transmission failure after which the alternative supply lines come into play within minutes - something that is relatively recent.

Yes, it is more expensive now, but I think blaming private enterprise for that is a bit convenient.

I remember banking when it was government regulated and partly government owned and getting a loan was a nightmare. banking hours were between 1 and 2pm on alternative Fridays.

Water supply is now significantly more reliable and of better quality.

I say these things to remind those on here that there is no evidence privatisation is intrinsically bad. There have been some bad examples but also some good ones, as identified above. The opinion expressed by many of you that somehow govt owned business is more effective, more profitable and more likely to innovate and provide better service is at all odds to history.

So - we are to believe that:-

> Improvements in technology etc, which could equally have gone ahead under government control of power, only make a difference to 'black-outs' when in private hands at prohibitive cost to the end user?

> Easier access to money in borrowing is a good thing, when the market shows signs of over-lending on too little hard collateral (property accumulation in the Alan bond mode)?

> Improvements in technology etc, which could equally have gone ahead under government control of water, only make a difference when in private hands at prohibitive cost to the end user?

I think not, and I sincerely doubt we need 'CEOs' of the like of Arfur Sin of Dinos to organise our water at mega salary and $20million+ bonus for good work.

The structure to do any needed changes was already in place without 'privatisation', and his 'contribution' is to sit at the head and twiddle his thumbs as a reward for his years of loyal service to the Liberal party.

All costs associated are passed down to the end user.....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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mantra

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Re: Time for Abbott's wake up call
Reply #26 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:18am

scotty 1969 wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:59am:

the working and middle class in this country is in dire need of a third party. none of the parties truly represent their interests.

Of course not, although they pretend they do. They have to answer to their global bosses, not us.

A moderate third party to represent our interests would be good, but it means if they came to power the multinationals wouldn't reap their usual profits.

As much as we love to think of ourselves as an independent and free nation, we're not. We have to do what we're told and take what we're given. We are just a little blob on the map which has excellent mineral resources and a compliant national management.

A benign third party would be a threat to everything politicians stand for.

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Gnads

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Re: Time for Abbott's wake up call
Reply #27 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:22am

Kat wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:10am:

Pantheon wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:41am:

Gnads wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:19am:

Pantheon wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:02am:

The less assets the Government owns the better, but at the same time, there needs to be check and balances to percent monopoly from developing, basic capitalism 101.

Privately owned business and assets have a profit incentive to cut costs and be more efficient. If you work for a government run industry, managers do not usually share in any profits. However, a private firm is interested in making profit and so it is more likely to cut costs and be efficient.

Also Often state own business and assets are open to Political Interference. They are motivated by political pressures rather than sound economic and business sense. For example a state enterprise may employ surplus workers which is inefficient. The government may be reluctant to get rid of the workers because of the negative publicity involved in job losses. Therefore, state owned enterprises often employ too many workers increasing inefficiency.

Selling assets off will reduce the burden on government, If worst comes to worst, we can just re-nationalized it all from national and international owners.

Essential services such as electricity, gas & water supply should never be in the hands of private enterprise.

Since the introduction of the "Competition Policies" .... where have you seen any benefits to consumers in reduced pricing caused by "said" competition?

The only saving & cost cutting is to the benefit of the company as they slash & burn to cut costs, increase profits & charge consumers more.

If a claim(privatisation & increased competition = cheaper prices & more employment) is proven to be false then why do people like you keep espousing it's benefits?

First what Competition Policies? All i see is regulation that benefit the large corporation and support current monopoly (both Labor and Liberals)

And charging consumers more is counterproductive and only large corporation and monopolies are able to get away with that. If prices are to high you would just stop buying that product and your the cheaper competitor's produced, in our system of large corporation and monopolies we don't have that Luxury and there can be ripped off.

And we can say the same thing about socialism, a system that has always payed its workers lest than capitalist counties have, made them work in worst conditions and of collapse after 80 years, compare to capitalist 250 years and counting.

That was Communism, not socialism.

Communism (or Socialism - capital S) is not the same thing as socialism (lower-case s).

Not the same thing at all, no-where near it, in fact.

Without an element of socialism, capitalism turns into the fascism we currently suffer
under here and in the UK (for example).

Exactly ..... seems Ahovking hasn't heard of Fred Hilmer either. re. Open Competition Policy.

I say again .... supply of essential services should never be in the hands of private enterprise ..... as it should never be a money making enterprise for greedy CEO's, Executives & Shareholders.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Bread and Butter

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Re: Time for Abbott's wake up call
Reply #28 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:31am

Kat wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:10am:

Pantheon wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:41am:

Gnads wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:19am:

Pantheon wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:02am:

The less assets the Government owns the better, but at the same time, there needs to be check and balances to percent monopoly from developing, basic capitalism 101.

Privately owned business and assets have a profit incentive to cut costs and be more efficient. If you work for a government run industry, managers do not usually share in any profits. However, a private firm is interested in making profit and so it is more likely to cut costs and be efficient.

Also Often state own business and assets are open to Political Interference. They are motivated by political pressures rather than sound economic and business sense. For example a state enterprise may employ surplus workers which is inefficient. The government may be reluctant to get rid of the workers because of the negative publicity involved in job losses. Therefore, state owned enterprises often employ too many workers increasing inefficiency.

Selling assets off will reduce the burden on government, If worst comes to worst, we can just re-nationalized it all from national and international owners.

Essential services such as electricity, gas & water supply should never be in the hands of private enterprise.

Since the introduction of the "Competition Policies" .... where have you seen any benefits to consumers in reduced pricing caused by "said" competition?

The only saving & cost cutting is to the benefit of the company as they slash & burn to cut costs, increase profits & charge consumers more.

If a claim(privatisation & increased competition = cheaper prices & more employment) is proven to be false then why do people like you keep espousing it's benefits?

First what Competition Policies? All i see is regulation that benefit the large corporation and support current monopoly (both Labor and Liberals)

And charging consumers more is counterproductive and only large corporation and monopolies are able to get away with that. If prices are to high you would just stop buying that product and your the cheaper competitor's produced, in our system of large corporation and monopolies we don't have that Luxury and there can be ripped off.

And we can say the same thing about socialism, a system that has always payed its workers lest than capitalist counties have, made them work in worst conditions and of collapse after 80 years, compare to capitalist 250 years and counting.

That was Communism, not socialism.

Communism (or Socialism - capital S) is not the same thing as socialism (lower-case s).

Not the same thing at all, no-where near it, in fact.

Without an element of socialism, capitalism turns into the fascism we currently suffer
under here and in the UK (for example).

If you think this is a fascist country and economic system then I weep for your education - assuming you had any.

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Bread and Butter

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Re: Time for Abbott's wake up call
Reply #29 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:33am

mantra wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:18am:

scotty 1969 wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:59am:

the working and middle class in this country is in dire need of a third party. none of the parties truly represent their interests.

Of course not, although they pretend they do. They have to answer to their global bosses, not us.

A moderate third party to represent our interests would be good, but it means if they came to power the multinationals wouldn't reap their usual profits.

As much as we love to think of ourselves as an independent and free nation, we're not. We have to do what we're told and take what we're given. We are just a little blob on the map which has excellent mineral resources and a compliant national management.

A benign third party would be a threat to everything politicians stand for.

That sounds quite absurd and silly. what 'international bosses' do the ALP or Coalition bow to? I've seen none. What might be confusing to you is economic and global reality, but not subservience.

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