Australian Politics Forum - How gullible are some people?

Life_goes_on

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #120 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:53pm

Frances wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:17pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:03pm:

none of whom were alive when Jesus was there

Rather disingenuous of you to ignore whatever evidence there is and ask for something you know doesn't exist. Ancient Roman archives? What Ancient Roman archives?

In those days, I doubt it took much for a fictional story to be passed on as fact and believed by the bulk of the population within a short period of time.

How many people these days believe that Ned Kelly's last words were "Such is life"?

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #121 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 4:23am

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:38pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:19pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:05pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:54pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 2:53pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 12:20pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 12:15pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 12:06pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 12:00pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:46am:

You want gullible:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cZQLzkZrlUg/UOMXeZ431PI/AAAAAAAAF2E/gQBGSWkA_ic/s1600/...

Well done on demonstrating yet again the paucity of your debating style by using a deflection. And your case was weakened pretty substantially by denying His existence in the first place. So far, you are not doing real well at this.

The title of this thread is: "How gullible are some people?"

My answer is: "Very".

Exhibit A:

"His existence is beyond doubt. There is far more evidence for Jesus' existence than most figures of antiquity."

Then why don't you cite references to support your position?

Doesn't work that way, old chum.

You are the one claiming that Jesus Christ existed: it's up to you to provide evidence.

However, I can play your childish game if you wish ...

The world was created by an invisible purple unicorn that lives at the bottom of my garden.

You think I'm wrong? Well, in that case, why don't you cite references to support your position?

It would be quite easy to do, but the problem is ...

" ... I can't do it."

That's all you had to say.

No need to lie among friends.

God bless you (or Jesus, or whatever fictional character it is that you follow).

Love to chat, but I have some book reviews to do for Amazon.

Cheers.

There are few more lame or self-defeating actions in a debate than to misquote or quote out of context your opponent. It is completely in line with my claim that you are debating well outside your division.

Then why don't you cite references to support your position?

Debating 101. I began with the well-established de facto position. You are the interloper claiming it is wrong. You are required by any rules of reasonable debate to substantiate your claim in at least prima facie fashion to avoid pointless argument of the already proven.

Now when you can come up with a prima facie argument then we can start. In the meantime you just look under-prepared and certainly, under-informed.

The vast majority of humanity dont believe in your jesus. Some believe in other ppl (like Krishna and mohammed) but some dont believe in any of them. Yours is not the default position.

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #122 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 4:36am

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 6:30pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 6:08pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 5:57pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 5:54pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 5:48pm:

the significant long-held assumption from history etc is that Jesus existed and is an assumption that has been held since the first century.

thats it? thats all you've got? an assumption

http://collegetimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Ashton-Kutcher-laughing.gif

hillarious

Are there any words longer than 4 letters that you actually understand.

of course ... do you understand what His existence is beyond doubt. There is far more evidence for Jesus' existence than most figures of antiquity means?

Yes, it is called the restating of a well established fact of history. It is not 'making a claim'. Try using words with a degree of precision and the world makes a lot more sense.

Well established in your mind maybe. It was never ain any of my history books. Havent seen it in any non-fiction books in fact.

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #123 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 4:37am

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 6:55pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 6:32pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 6:30pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 6:08pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 5:57pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 5:54pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 5:48pm:

the significant long-held assumption from history etc is that Jesus existed and is an assumption that has been held since the first century.

thats it? thats all you've got? an assumption

http://collegetimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Ashton-Kutcher-laughing.gif

hillarious

Are there any words longer than 4 letters that you actually understand.

of course ... do you understand what His existence is beyond doubt. There is far more evidence for Jesus' existence than most figures of antiquity means?

Yes, it is called the restating of a well established fact of history. It is not 'making a claim'. Try using words with a degree of precision and the world makes a lot more sense.

"beyond doubt", and now "fact".

Oh, this just gets better and better.

Your cynicism suits you well. It encompasses and arrogant and yet clearly bereft soul.

For all your words, you never actually seem to engage the debate, just stand around trying to look smart and I am sure some do think so, but the clever see you as someone of little substance or consequence. I've not yet once seen you formulate an argument on anything at all that goes beyond mindless pedantry of a word or phrase that you mis-use anyhow.

In a public debate with rules and moderators you would die in seconds. I submit that it is actually impossible to prove anything to you - not because you are very clever, but rather because you are very stupid.

in an actual debate ad-hominem isnt allowed

SOB

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Frances

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #124 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 7:43am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 4:37am:

in an actual debate ad-hominem isnt allowed

And, in actual debate, you're supposed to stick pretty much to the subject at hand, which in this thread concerns a relic purporting to be the Holy Grail, and the gullibility or otherwise of the people who believe the claim.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #125 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 7:59am

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 6:55pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 6:32pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 6:30pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 6:08pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 5:57pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 5:54pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 5:48pm:

the significant long-held assumption from history etc is that Jesus existed and is an assumption that has been held since the first century.

thats it? thats all you've got? an assumption

http://collegetimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Ashton-Kutcher-laughing.gif

hillarious

Are there any words longer than 4 letters that you actually understand.

of course ... do you understand what His existence is beyond doubt. There is far more evidence for Jesus' existence than most figures of antiquity means?

Yes, it is called the restating of a well established fact of history. It is not 'making a claim'. Try using words with a degree of precision and the world makes a lot more sense.

"beyond doubt", and now "fact".

Oh, this just gets better and better.

Your cynicism suits you well. It encompasses and arrogant and yet clearly bereft soul.

For all your words, you never actually seem to engage the debate, just stand around trying to look smart and I am sure some do think so, but the clever see you as someone of little substance or consequence. I've not yet once seen you formulate an argument on anything at all that goes beyond mindless pedantry of a word or phrase that you mis-use anyhow.

In a public debate with rules and moderators you would die in seconds. I submit that it is actually impossible to prove anything to you - not because you are very clever, but rather because you are very stupid.

"beyond doubt" ... "fact" Undecided

You really should learn the meaning of words before posting them in public forums.

'Faith', is more apt in this situation.

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Frances

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #126 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 8:19am

Frances wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 7:43am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 4:37am:

in an actual debate ad-hominem isnt allowed

And, in actual debate, you're supposed to stick pretty much to the subject at hand, which in this thread concerns a relic purporting to be the Holy Grail, and the gullibility or otherwise of the people who believe the claim.

But obviously that is not going to happen here.....

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Quantum

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #127 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 8:25am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 4:36am:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 6:30pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 6:08pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 5:57pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 5:54pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 5:48pm:

the significant long-held assumption from history etc is that Jesus existed and is an assumption that has been held since the first century.

thats it? thats all you've got? an assumption

http://collegetimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Ashton-Kutcher-laughing.gif

hillarious

Are there any words longer than 4 letters that you actually understand.

of course ... do you understand what His existence is beyond doubt. There is far more evidence for Jesus' existence than most figures of antiquity means?

Yes, it is called the restating of a well established fact of history. It is not 'making a claim'. Try using words with a degree of precision and the world makes a lot more sense.

Well established in your mind maybe. It was never ain any of my history books. Havent seen it in any non-fiction books in fact.

SOB

Either was the Holocaust. In fact your knowledge of history is itself a holocaust of all things sane.

You have by far the least about of historical knowledge of anyone I have ever been in communication with. There are kindergarten kids with a better understanding of the past than you do. If you think that history books that look at the world 2000 years ago do not have Jesus recorded in them, then you have simply never read any of them.

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John Smith

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #128 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 8:35am

Frances wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:17pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:03pm:

none of whom were alive when Jesus was there

Rather disingenuous of you to ignore whatever evidence there is and ask for something you know doesn't exist. Ancient Roman archives? What Ancient Roman archives?

ignore evidence? you've not presented any evidence apart from heresay, decades after the event .... what was there to ignore?

There have been many finding of Roman records over the centuries, including many at about the time Jesus lived. And yet, to my knowledge, (I think if they had the church would have made sure everyone was aware of it) none ever mentioned Jesus and all his miracles ... but as I said earlier, they did find a record of a man called Jesus who was crucified on the cross ... no mention of any resurrection or anything else though ... Unusual don't you think considering the Romans were very good record keepers????

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74446 Gender:	Re: How gullible are some people? Reply #129 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 8:36am ... wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:06pm: John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:03pm: surely if half the miracles attributed to him were true, the romans would have some records of it somewhere?? It was 2000 years ago. What kind of records did you want? His drivers license, passport and tax file number? a photo
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Kat

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #130 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 8:45am

John Smith wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 8:36am:

... wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:06pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:03pm:

surely if half the miracles attributed to him were true, the romans would have some records of it somewhere??

It was 2000 years ago. What kind of records did you want? His drivers license, passport and tax file number?

a photo

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #131 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 8:59am

Quantum wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 8:25am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 4:36am:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 6:30pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 6:08pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 5:57pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 5:54pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 5:48pm:

the significant long-held assumption from history etc is that Jesus existed and is an assumption that has been held since the first century.

thats it? thats all you've got? an assumption

http://collegetimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Ashton-Kutcher-laughing.gif

hillarious

Are there any words longer than 4 letters that you actually understand.

of course ... do you understand what His existence is beyond doubt. There is far more evidence for Jesus' existence than most figures of antiquity means?

Yes, it is called the restating of a well established fact of history. It is not 'making a claim'. Try using words with a degree of precision and the world makes a lot more sense.

Well established in your mind maybe. It was never ain any of my history books. Havent seen it in any non-fiction books in fact.

SOB

Either was the Holocaust. In fact your knowledge of history is itself a holocaust of all things sane.

You have by far the least about of historical knowledge of anyone I have ever been in communication with. There are kindergarten kids with a better understanding of the past than you do. If you think that history books that look at the world 2000 years ago do not have Jesus recorded in them, then you have simply never read any of them.

You know nothing about me or what i know. You make assumptions after reading a couple words. the xtian religion isnt "history" its fiction like krishna and mohammed or whoever the deities are that are NOT in factual history books.

SOB

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Frances

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #132 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 9:05am

John Smith wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 8:35am:

There have been many finding of Roman records over the centuries, including many at about the time Jesus lived. And yet, to my knowledge, (I think if they had the church would have made sure everyone was aware of it) none ever mentioned Jesus and all his miracles ... but as I said earlier, they did find a record of a man called Jesus who was crucified on the cross ... no mention of any resurrection or anything else though ... Unusual don't you think considering the Romans were very good record keepers????

.

There are hardly any surviving records from the time of Jesus. What survives in the way of records practically all comes from other times. And, in nay case, the Romans would have seen Jesus as a troublemaker from a relatively unimportant part of the country. Why would they want or need to document His existence? There would have been hundreds of Jews crucified by the Romans in the first three decades of the first century - and how many of them are documented?

So there are no reports by Pontius Pilate of Jesus' crucifixion. There are no surviving reports from Pilate at all.

In his essay, “Surviving Literature from the First Century” Professor E M Blaiklock (chair of Classics at Auckland University from 1947 to 1968) showed that there were hardly any primary documents from the period that covers the life of Christ - in fact there is no surviving Roman archival document that even mentions the existence of Pontius Pilate.

Stop making things up. Your ignorance is showing.

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John Smith

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #133 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 9:18am

Frances wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 9:05am:

John Smith wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 8:35am:

There have been many finding of Roman records over the centuries, including many at about the time Jesus lived. And yet, to my knowledge, (I think if they had the church would have made sure everyone was aware of it) none ever mentioned Jesus and all his miracles ... but as I said earlier, they did find a record of a man called Jesus who was crucified on the cross ... no mention of any resurrection or anything else though ... Unusual don't you think considering the Romans were very good record keepers????

.

There are hardly any surviving records from the time of Jesus. What survives in the way of records practically all comes from other times. And, in nay case, the Romans would have seen Jesus as a troublemaker from a relatively unimportant part of the country. Why would they want or need to document His existence? There would have been hundreds of Jews crucified by the Romans in the first three decades of the first century - and how many of them are documented?

So there are no reports by Pontius Pilate of Jesus' crucifixion. There are no surviving reports from Pilate at all.

In his essay, “Surviving Literature from the First Century” Professor E M Blaiklock (chair of Classics at Auckland University from 1947 to 1968) showed that there were hardly any primary documents from the period that covers the life of Christ - in fact there is no surviving Roman archival document that even mentions the existence of Pontius Pilate.

Stop making things up. Your ignorance is showing.

I doubt the story because, to my knowledge, there are are no records to support any of the stories ... you say he was there despite the lack of records ... who's making things up?

Why would they need to document his existence? ... Why did they feel the need a mere 50 yrs after the fact? I would have thought that a man who turns water to wine, feeds thousands with 3 fiish, walks on water, comes back from the dead or any one of the other hundreds if not thousands of other miracles attributed to him would have been worth recording don't you? Especially in a day an era when gods and spirits ruled & defined their every day.

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Frances Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3577 In a Castle in the Hills Gender:	Re: How gullible are some people? Reply #134 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 9:24am John Smith wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 9:18am: you say he was there despite the lack of records ... who's making things up? This is just going around in circles. Your mind is too closed for you to consider anything that does not agree with your predetermined opinions. I'm going off to bake a cake....
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