NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 6^th, 2014 at 10:43pm:



How is that ramming though and arm twisting?


Anyway, that's not really important. More interestingly, A.N. Wilson proposed the Pauline invention of Christianity in his 1992 book. The same AN Wilson in 2009:
http://www.newstatesman.com/religion/2009/04/conversion-experience-atheism

"My departure from the Faith was like a conversion on the road to Damascus. My return was slow, hesitant, doubting. So it will always be; but I know I shall never make the same mistake again. Gilbert Ryle, with donnish absurdity, called God "a category mistake". Yet the real category mistake made by atheists is not about God, but about human beings."

Amen to that.

Read the article, it's well worth it. It illuminates the way we are talking at cross-purposes.

So anyway...

The historicity of Jesus is largely irrelevant. It is the Jesus of Christianity (as imagined by Paul) which is relevant.

The likes of Bishop Spong recognises this well. He has successfully jettisoned the myth of Jesus from the religious message as extracted from back-to-basics tradition (and no, not fundamentalism).

aquascoot wrote on Apr 7^th, 2014 at 1:28pm:


not at all the same ... people who actually knew Einstein have written about him, and others base their writting on what Einstein himself has written ...

if someone decided to write about him in 100yrs based only on what they heard, how truthful do you think the story would be?

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 7^th, 2014 at 11:55am:



Well, that's where he went wrong, with the jettisoning.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 7^th, 2014 at 2:30pm:

You have to wonder how this miracle worker of major repute (if the late written gospels are to be believed) was not written about at all during his life nor after it until an energetic evangelist takes up his cause.

Not a word until decades after his death.

Even the Jews Paul encountered throughout Asia had never heard of him. No doubt many Jews in Palestine had not heard of him either.

John Smith wrote on Apr 7^th, 2014 at 9:29pm:

well, you thing not authorised and unauthorised are different things so I wouldn't set much store on what you take to be the crux of anything.

Jesus was a real person as there is both biblical and non-biblical evidence for his existence. Whether you believe in his miracles is irrelevant to his actual existence.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 7^th, 2014 at 9:27pm:



NorthOfNorth,

You live and breathe.

You observe the world about you, and you form opinions about what you experience.

And you live and breathe.

You have passions for, concerning, the people in your life.

And yet the world is still there, in front of your eyes.

And you are experiencing all of it.

And you live and breathe.




Then one day, you, NorthOfNorth, you stop breathing.

And suddenly 'you', are dead.

Everyone in this world who knew you, mourns, for themself.

They mourn, that now they can no longer share and experience your presence.

Because that is what you are in this world - a 'presence'.





But now your presence has departed.

But 'your' body is still here.

So is 'NorthOfNorth' [the presence] dead, because NorthOfNorth no longer inhabits that particular clay house, that he once did ?

Is the entity which we know as 'NorthOfNorth',    .....now, a 'dead parrot' ?





NorthOfNorth,

All around you, you can see miracles every day.

In your experience of this life, there are so many miracles happening around you every day.

But to the eyes of men, what they see and experience [in front of their own noses], is just pap.

It is nothing.

It is just something to be endured, and hopefully alleviated.



Dictionary;
pap = =
1 bland soft or semi-liquid food such as that suitable for babies or invalids.
2 maize porridge.
3 worthless or trivial reading matter or entertainment.




Don't discount the miracles which you are witness to, every day.




Miracles are performed/facilitated today, by men too....

e.g.
Wifi.

I possess the technology to send a message, today, to the other side of this planet, almost instantly.

How does it happen ?

How it happens has been explained to me.

But if i had to replicate such a system, i doubt that i could.

It is all beyond my ken.

But is real ?

Or is it a miracle ?






NorthOfNorth,

Was Jesus a 'miracle worker' ?

Or was Jesus just a person, an entity, possessed of knowledge which we do not [possess] ?



And here we are [i.e. humanity], today.

So certain, that we [i.e. humanity] know so much about ourselves and our circumstances!      




Psalms 2:1
Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?


Indeed.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 8^th, 2014 at 11:24am:





Quote:


helian,

Tell that to the worldly church [and the likes of Bishop Spong].......

But, oh yes, they already understand that.

And yes, they [the worldly church], do have that desire, to gather humanity to themselves.

IMAGE....


Matthew 7:13
....wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:




Matthew 7:14
......strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.i Quote:


helian,

Yes, i know i understand that that, is a popular anthem - especially among the 'religious' leaders of this age.