Australian Politics Forum - How gullible are some people?

Soren

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #420 - Apr 9^th, 2014 at 10:54pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 8:38pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 8:20pm:

That the man Jesus of Nazareth existed is beyond doubt by anyone who has had even a cursory look at the evidence.

Incorrect.

You have clearly demonstrated that you have absolutely no idea what "beyond doubt" means.

I guess we'll just add it to the list.

You do not have any actual evidence to support your 'doubt'. You just think it it is enough to utter 'I doubt' and be taken seriously. But you are wrong, as always.

The existence of the historical Jesus is accepted by the vast majority of people who have actually studied the matter beyond google and wiki.

But you can doubt - don't let me stop you. It just makes you look like a really unlettered, ignorant ranter. Still, you are within your rights to be like that. It is your comfort zone, after all.i

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John Smith

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #421 - Apr 9^th, 2014 at 10:57pm

Soren wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 10:54pm:

You do not have any actual evidence to support your 'doubt'. You just think it it is enough to utter 'I doubt' and be taken seriously. But you are wrong, as always.The existence of the historical Jesus is accepted by the vast majority of people who have actually studied the matter beyond google and wiki.But you can doubt - don't let me stop you. It just makes you look like a really unlettered, ignorant ranter. Still, you are within your rights to be like that. It is your comfort zone, after all.

So if I tell you that I doubt that alians have visited earth, according to you, the onus is on me to prove that they haven't?

Please tell me, How does one do that exactly? Grin

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Soren

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #422 - Apr 9^th, 2014 at 11:02pm

John Smith wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 8:46pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 8:20pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 7:27pm:

Listen, this all started because some nice person said that 'His existence is beyond doubt.' ... that is plain wrong. His existance is not beyond doubt. The story could very well be true, but it could also be a work of fantasy, either way, you cannot prove it.

Anything can be doubted (except your own doubting, ie thinking, and that only since 1637). So yours is as banal an argument as you can have.

That the man Jesus of Nazareth existed is beyond doubt by anyone who has had even a cursory look at the evidence. That people can doubt things despite the evidence is not a compelling but a banal argument so don't trot it out.

That he was a son of god is a different issue and is obviously not an empirical question but a much, much bigger one. For example, if you could offer only empirical proofs of your love for your wife and children, they would rightly despise you as a cold sociopath.

They might even ask if you were for real.

banal is claiming that his existence is beyond a doubt, whilst failing to prove it. You just repeat the same crap I've heard from every priest since I was 10 'the proof is there if you have faith'.. the proof is not there.... The very term beyond a doubt means that it is beyond a doubt. ... just look at the 3 words.

I don't give a f%ck what you believe, just don't claim his existence is beyond a doubt... it very clearly isn't.

You could not articulate your reasons for doubting the historical evidence, other than a really bad animus towards all things churchy - emoting, in other words.

Snarling like a trapped beast is, well, just snarling like a trapped beast. You need to reason.
But that's asking you too much. You have nor read or thought about or in any way looked into any of this. You are stuck in your 17 year old ignorant and inarticulate groove.

You are too stupid and too ignorant to actually counter any argument and you think your adolescent emotional incontinence will somehow cover up the fact that your understanding is not even shallow.

John.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #423 - Apr 9^th, 2014 at 11:04pm

Soren wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 10:54pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 8:38pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 8:20pm:

That the man Jesus of Nazareth existed is beyond doubt by anyone who has had even a cursory look at the evidence.

Incorrect.

You have clearly demonstrated that you have absolutely no idea what "beyond doubt" means.

I guess we'll just add it to the list.

You do not have any actual evidence to support your 'doubt'.

I don't need any evidence (although I have already posted evidence).

You are the one claiming that Jesus of Nazareth actually existed.

Now it's up to you to substantiate your claim.

Hitherto, you have failed miserably.

Nothing new.

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Soren

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #424 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 12:00am

Jesus has been at the centre of a wordwide religious movement for 2000 years.
There has been more written and said about him than probably all others put together.

He is the source and inspiration for countless books and articles and discussions over two millennia.

If you want to call ALL that into doubt, go ahead. It's you versus 2000 years of thinking, reading, writing and discussion.

Tell 'em, dickeaddle, where they ALL went wrong.

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« Last Edit: Apr 10^th, 2014 at 12:06am by Soren »

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: How gullible are some people? Reply #425 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 12:05am greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 11:04pm: Soren wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 10:54pm: You do not have any actual evidence to support your 'doubt'. I don't need any evidence This why you are regarded with contempt by all thinking beings. You think being thick is a valid option in a discussion.
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: How gullible are some people? Reply #426 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 12:09am greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 11:04pm: (although I have already posted evidence). No you have not. All you have ever posted is evidence of your ignorance and malevolance.
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #427 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 6:37am

Soren wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 12:00am:

Jesus has been at the centre of a wordwide religious movement for 2000 years.
There has been more written and said about him than probably all others put together.

He is the source and inspiration for countless books and articles and discussions over two millennia.

Except, maybe the Buddha (Siddhartha), about as much evidence for his existence as Jesus. But, once again, its is not the Jesus or Siddhartha of history that is relevant, only the Jesus and Siddhartha of faith has any relevancy. As an article of faith they are not doubted.

Interesting how Buddhist tradition seems to get this and Buddhists do not get hung up on the historicity of Siddhartha. The teachings are what is relevant to them... The rest, for them, makes an interesting story.

Christians, however, must constantly recite the Apostles' Creed to endlessly reaffirm to themselves that Jesus was born of a virgin, suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, died and was buried, rose from the dead, ascended into Heaven, is seated at the right hand of the father and will come again to judge the living and the dead.

Although the creed, of course, (credo) is a profession of faith, not an assertion of Jesus' historicity for which the credo offers any criteria of falsifiability

Why so many Christians get hung up on insisting on Jesus existence in fact is a bit of a mystery... They should take a leaf out of the Buddhists' book... Tradition and faith is what is relevant to the veracity of the teachings, not irrefutable fact... After all, isn't that the essence of religion?

Soren wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 12:00am:

If you want to call ALL that into doubt, go ahead. It's you versus 2000 years of thinking, reading, writing and discussion.

Tell 'em, dickeaddle, where they ALL went wrong.

"Drink more piss... A million drunks can't be wrong" !

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: How gullible are some people? Reply #428 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 6:38am .
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aquascoot

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #429 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:00am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 6:37am:

Soren wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 12:00am:

Jesus has been at the centre of a wordwide religious movement for 2000 years.
There has been more written and said about him than probably all others put together.

He is the source and inspiration for countless books and articles and discussions over two millennia.

Except, maybe the Buddha (Siddhartha), about as much evidence for his existence as Jesus. But, once again, its is not the Jesus or Siddhartha of history that is relevant, only the Jesus and Siddhartha of faith has any relevancy. As an article of faith they are not doubted.

Interesting how Buddhist tradition seems to get this and Buddhists do not get hung up on the historicity of Siddhartha. The teachings are what is relevant to them... The rest, for them, makes an interesting story.

Christians, however, must constantly recite the Apostles' Creed to endlessly reaffirm to themselves that Jesus was born of a virgin, suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, died and was buried, rose from the dead, ascended into Heaven, is seated at the right hand of the father and will come again to judge the living and the dead.

Although the creed, of course, (credo) is a profession of faith, not an assertion of Jesus' historicity for which the credo offers any criteria of falsifiability

Why so many Christians get hung up on insisting on Jesus existence in fact is a bit of a mystery... They should take a leaf out of the Buddhists' book... Tradition and faith is what is relevant to the veracity of the teachings, not irrefutable fact... After all, isn't that the essence of religion?

Soren wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 12:00am:

If you want to call ALL that into doubt, go ahead. It's you versus 2000 years of thinking, reading, writing and discussion.

Tell 'em, dickeaddle, where they ALL went wrong.

"Drink more piss... A million drunks can't be wrong" !

Yes north, that would be my thoughts.
But , I think we can go a step further and say that Christianity can still be "fact based", maybe even "irrefutably fact based"
I listened to chris hitchins (reknowned aetheist) being interviewed when he was dying of oesophageal cancer and , to me, it is an "irrefutable fact" that he sounded just awful, depressed, down, confused, dysthymic.

Now , if you look at the deaths of some Christians and Buddhists, it would seem, (factually based) that their passing is much calmer, more peaceful, happier.

Now if jesus said "I come to bring you peace", then to me, this is a subject which could (and should) be studied.

If aetheists are denying the population of this valuable tool (for whatever reason) , it is They who are living in the dark ages.

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: How gullible are some people? Reply #430 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:03am .
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #431 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:11am

aquascoot wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:00am:

Yes north, that would be my thoughts.
But , I think we can go a step further and say that Christianity can still be "fact based", maybe even "irrefutably fact based"

Now , if you look at the deaths of some Christians and Buddhists, it would seem, (factually based) that their passing is much calmer, more peaceful, happier.

Yes, well, that's what we imagine is the last consolation of religious faith. I couldn't say how many do feel consoled (particularly when it is their own child who is dying from a malignant and vicious disease)... Maybe there's as many who aren't consoled as those who are. Don't know.

aquascoot wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:00am:

Now if jesus said "I come to bring you peace", then to me, this is a subject which could (and should) be studied.

Isn't it already? The psychological effects and the consolation found in knowing you are loved (if not by humans, then a loving god).

aquascoot wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:00am:

If aetheists are denying the population of this valuable tool (for whatever reason) , it is They who are living in the dark ages.

How are atheists, per se, denying anyone their faith? Not believing in their faith is not denying others access to it.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: How gullible are some people? Reply #432 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:11am .
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aquascoot

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #433 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:29am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:11am:

aquascoot wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:00am:

Yes north, that would be my thoughts.
But , I think we can go a step further and say that Christianity can still be "fact based", maybe even "irrefutably fact based"

Now , if you look at the deaths of some Christians and Buddhists, it would seem, (factually based) that their passing is much calmer, more peaceful, happier.

Yes, well, that's what we imagine is the last consolation of religious faith. I couldn't say how many do feel consoled (particularly when it is their own child who is dying from a malignant and vicious disease)... Maybe there's as many who aren't consoled as those who are. Don't know.

aquascoot wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:00am:

Now if jesus said "I come to bring you peace", then to me, this is a subject which could (and should) be studied.

Isn't it already? The psychological effects and the consolation found in knowing you are loved (if not by humans, then a loving god).

aquascoot wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:00am:

If aetheists are denying the population of this valuable tool (for whatever reason) , it is They who are living in the dark ages.

How are atheists, per se, denying anyone their faith? Not believing in their faith is not denying others access to it.

Whilst not a believer in any particular faith , I encouraged my kids to read about the faith traditions, was very happy they got religious instruction at school and am delighted my 2 girls go to a Christian church (though I don't).
Now the aetheist "movement, I believe would very much like to have Religious education scrapped in schools. They seem to froth at the mouth about it Wink

Is this not "denying" the population something which, I consider, quite useful.
I'd ban several things that young people are exposed to which I consider harmful (junk food advertising perhaps) before i'd call for a ban on RE,
So I consider RE useful, I consider maccas useless.
The adults have to make the call on this.
You are always teaching your children something. Omit teaching religion and , believe me, that is also teaching them something ,

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: How gullible are some people? Reply #434 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:36am .
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