Australian Politics Forum - How gullible are some people?

NorthOfNorth

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #435 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:38am

aquascoot wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:29am:

Whilst not a believer in any particular faith , I encouraged my kids to read about the faith traditions, was very happy they got religious instruction at school and am delighted my 2 girls go to a Christian church (though I don't).
Now the aetheist "movement, I believe would very much like to have Religious education scrapped in schools. They seem to froth at the mouth about it Wink

Is this not "denying" the population something which, I consider, quite useful.
I'd ban several things that young people are exposed to which I consider harmful (junk food advertising perhaps) before i'd call for a ban on RE,
So I consider RE useful, I consider maccas useless.
The adults have to make the call on this.
You are always teaching your children something. Omit teaching religion and , believe me, that is also teaching them something ,

I'm interested to know why you do not value religious faith and RE for yourself, but you value it for your daughters.

Seems slightly schizophrenic!

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: How gullible are some people? Reply #436 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:39am .
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John Smith

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #437 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:12am

Soren wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 11:02pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 8:46pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 8:20pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 7:27pm:

Listen, this all started because some nice person said that 'His existence is beyond doubt.' ... that is plain wrong. His existance is not beyond doubt. The story could very well be true, but it could also be a work of fantasy, either way, you cannot prove it.

Anything can be doubted (except your own doubting, ie thinking, and that only since 1637). So yours is as banal an argument as you can have.

That the man Jesus of Nazareth existed is beyond doubt by anyone who has had even a cursory look at the evidence. That people can doubt things despite the evidence is not a compelling but a banal argument so don't trot it out.

That he was a son of god is a different issue and is obviously not an empirical question but a much, much bigger one. For example, if you could offer only empirical proofs of your love for your wife and children, they would rightly despise you as a cold sociopath.

They might even ask if you were for real.

banal is claiming that his existence is beyond a doubt, whilst failing to prove it. You just repeat the same crap I've heard from every priest since I was 10 'the proof is there if you have faith'.. the proof is not there.... The very term beyond a doubt means that it is beyond a doubt. ... just look at the 3 words.

I don't give a f%ck what you believe, just don't claim his existence is beyond a doubt... it very clearly isn't.

You could not articulate your reasons for doubting the historical evidence, other than a really bad animus towards all things churchy - emoting, in other words.

Snarling like a trapped beast is, well, just snarling like a trapped beast. You need to reason.
But that's asking you too much. You have nor read or thought about or in any way looked into any of this. You are stuck in your 17 year old ignorant and inarticulate groove.

You are too stupid and too ignorant to actually counter any argument and you think your adolescent emotional incontinence will somehow cover up the fact that your understanding is not even shallow.

John.

Are you trying to make SOB look bright? My reason for doubt is simple, no one has yet proven to me that the two Jesus' we are referring to are one and the same. No one has given me a reason to believe that the hisorical evidence is correct. You keep using consensus as your argument but consensus doesn't prove anything. It proves even less when that consensus is based on faith.

Don't go getting upset just because you shot yourself in the foot.

I'll happily concede the point, as soon as you provide proof ... how about it?

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I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 137142 Gender:	Re: How gullible are some people? Reply #438 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:15am Soren wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 12:09am: greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 11:04pm: (although I have already posted evidence). No you have not. All you have ever posted is evidence of your ignorance and malevolance. Yes, I have. Scroll back and check for yourself.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #439 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:17am

Soren wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 12:00am:

Jesus has been at the centre of a wordwide religious movement for 2000 years.
There has been more written and said about him than probably all others put together.

He is the source and inspiration for countless books and articles and discussions over two millennia.

Yep, it's a very popular faith.

I'm not denying that at all.

However, his actual existence is not "beyond doubt".

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aquascoot

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #440 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:18am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:38am:

aquascoot wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:29am:

Whilst not a believer in any particular faith , I encouraged my kids to read about the faith traditions, was very happy they got religious instruction at school and am delighted my 2 girls go to a Christian church (though I don't).
Now the aetheist "movement, I believe would very much like to have Religious education scrapped in schools. They seem to froth at the mouth about it Wink

Is this not "denying" the population something which, I consider, quite useful.
I'd ban several things that young people are exposed to which I consider harmful (junk food advertising perhaps) before i'd call for a ban on RE,
So I consider RE useful, I consider maccas useless.
The adults have to make the call on this.
You are always teaching your children something. Omit teaching religion and , believe me, that is also teaching them something ,

I'm interested to know why you do not value religious faith and RE for yourself, but you value it for your daughters.

Seems slightly schizophrenic!

I'm not a fan of church based religiosity and i'm a fan of Buddhism and confuscianism . I don't go to church because , frankly, I feel like ived transcended its usefulness.
I no longer go to university but am delighted my girls go there.I am happy to study on in private. they will hopefully reach this stage as well.
learn your lessons and then be mindful in how you apply the teachings.
And be very very cynical about all zealots ( especially the aetheists who I consider spiritually clueless).

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: How gullible are some people? Reply #441 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:32am .
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #442 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:35am

John Smith wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:12am:

Soren wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 11:02pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 8:46pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 8:20pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 7:27pm:

Listen, this all started because some nice person said that 'His existence is beyond doubt.' ... that is plain wrong. His existance is not beyond doubt. The story could very well be true, but it could also be a work of fantasy, either way, you cannot prove it.

Anything can be doubted (except your own doubting, ie thinking, and that only since 1637). So yours is as banal an argument as you can have.

That the man Jesus of Nazareth existed is beyond doubt by anyone who has had even a cursory look at the evidence. That people can doubt things despite the evidence is not a compelling but a banal argument so don't trot it out.

That he was a son of god is a different issue and is obviously not an empirical question but a much, much bigger one. For example, if you could offer only empirical proofs of your love for your wife and children, they would rightly despise you as a cold sociopath.

They might even ask if you were for real.

banal is claiming that his existence is beyond a doubt, whilst failing to prove it. You just repeat the same crap I've heard from every priest since I was 10 'the proof is there if you have faith'.. the proof is not there.... The very term beyond a doubt means that it is beyond a doubt. ... just look at the 3 words.

I don't give a f%ck what you believe, just don't claim his existence is beyond a doubt... it very clearly isn't.

You could not articulate your reasons for doubting the historical evidence, other than a really bad animus towards all things churchy - emoting, in other words.

Snarling like a trapped beast is, well, just snarling like a trapped beast. You need to reason.
But that's asking you too much. You have nor read or thought about or in any way looked into any of this. You are stuck in your 17 year old ignorant and inarticulate groove.

You are too stupid and too ignorant to actually counter any argument and you think your adolescent emotional incontinence will somehow cover up the fact that your understanding is not even shallow.

John.

Are you trying to make SOB look bright? My reason for doubt is simple, no one has yet proven to me that the two Jesus' we are referring to are one and the same. No one has given me a reason to believe that the hisorical evidence is correct. You keep using consensus as your argument but consensus doesn't prove anything. It proves even less when that consensus is based on faith.

Don't go getting upset just because you shot yourself in the foot.

I'll happily concede the point, as soon as you provide proof ... how about it?

Awww not getting enough attention lil johnny?

SOB

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Whaaaaaah!
I'm a
Moron!

- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #443 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:36am

aquascoot wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:18am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:38am:

aquascoot wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:29am:

Whilst not a believer in any particular faith , I encouraged my kids to read about the faith traditions, was very happy they got religious instruction at school and am delighted my 2 girls go to a Christian church (though I don't).
Now the aetheist "movement, I believe would very much like to have Religious education scrapped in schools. They seem to froth at the mouth about it Wink

Is this not "denying" the population something which, I consider, quite useful.
I'd ban several things that young people are exposed to which I consider harmful (junk food advertising perhaps) before i'd call for a ban on RE,
So I consider RE useful, I consider maccas useless.
The adults have to make the call on this.
You are always teaching your children something. Omit teaching religion and , believe me, that is also teaching them something ,

I'm interested to know why you do not value religious faith and RE for yourself, but you value it for your daughters.

Seems slightly schizophrenic!

I'm not a fan of church based religiosity and i'm a fan of Buddhism and confuscianism . I don't go to church because , frankly, I feel like ived transcended its usefulness.

Fair enough.

aquascoot wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:18am:

I no longer go to university but am delighted my girls go there.I am happy to study on in private. they will hopefully reach this stage as well.

Are you equating higher education with going to church during formative years?

aquascoot wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:18am:

And be very very cynical about all zealots ( especially the aetheists who I consider spiritually clueless).

Did you mean: be wary of zealots? To be cynical about all zealots is to commit the same 'sin' as them.

Why are atheists necessarily spiritually clueless? You are a believer in non-theistic religious / philosophical traditions... If god isn't in your world, aren't you also condemning yourself to being spiritually clueless as well?

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: How gullible are some people? Reply #444 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:37am .
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aquascoot Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 34603 Gender:	Re: How gullible are some people? Reply #445 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:48am I Cherry pick.
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aquascoot

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #446 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:51am

God is in my world , but as a concept.

Truth
Love
Path
Journey.

East meets west.
Rich melting pot innit.

Who was the philosopher who talked about the 3 men in the dark room examining the elephant and all coming to totally different conclusions but all being "right" despite all having totally different views.

Zealots generally believe they have all the answers.
(as do fubdamentalists).
Far better to have all the questions.

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: How gullible are some people? Reply #447 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 9:02am .
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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: How gullible are some people? Reply #448 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 9:39am aquascoot wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:51am: God is in my world , but as a concept. Truth Love Path Journey. Ah! New Age... Love the music! aquascoot wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:51am: Far better to have all the questions. Or in the Socratic tradition : To know you know nothing.
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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: How gullible are some people? Reply #449 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 9:39am .
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