Australian Politics Forum - How gullible are some people?

longweekend58

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #630 - Apr 20^th, 2014 at 6:49pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 6:13pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 6:07pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 5:51pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 4:17pm:

Would you like to know how to play the flute? It's easy - you blow in one end and move your finders up and down the holes.

Yes, that would be my point. To suggest a vacuous and superficial tenet (acceptance of Jesus as saviour), will suffice to offer, by that fact alone, redemption from oneself, without regard to the complexities of one's disorders is similar, in its intent, to a lotto advert (or, if you like, to promise talent as a flautist by simply blowing in one end and moving your finders up and down the holes).

I don't think a 2000 year old civilisation rest on such a premise. Do you really think it does?

Paul thought the world was to end in his lifetime, he had no time to lose.

The regurgitation of his tenet in modern day evangelistic neo-Christianity is a vacuous anachronism.

so no comment on my daughter's miracle?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: How gullible are some people? Reply #631 - Apr 20^th, 2014 at 6:55pm .
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John Smith

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #632 - Apr 20^th, 2014 at 6:59pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 6:49pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 6:13pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 6:07pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 5:51pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 4:17pm:

Would you like to know how to play the flute? It's easy - you blow in one end and move your finders up and down the holes.

Yes, that would be my point. To suggest a vacuous and superficial tenet (acceptance of Jesus as saviour), will suffice to offer, by that fact alone, redemption from oneself, without regard to the complexities of one's disorders is similar, in its intent, to a lotto advert (or, if you like, to promise talent as a flautist by simply blowing in one end and moving your finders up and down the holes).

I don't think a 2000 year old civilisation rest on such a premise. Do you really think it does?

Paul thought the world was to end in his lifetime, he had no time to lose.

The regurgitation of his tenet in modern day evangelistic neo-Christianity is a vacuous anachronism.

so no comment on my daughter's miracle?

nature is full of anomalies .....

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #633 - Apr 20^th, 2014 at 7:07pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 6:49pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 6:13pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 6:07pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 5:51pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 4:17pm:

Would you like to know how to play the flute? It's easy - you blow in one end and move your finders up and down the holes.

Yes, that would be my point. To suggest a vacuous and superficial tenet (acceptance of Jesus as saviour), will suffice to offer, by that fact alone, redemption from oneself, without regard to the complexities of one's disorders is similar, in its intent, to a lotto advert (or, if you like, to promise talent as a flautist by simply blowing in one end and moving your finders up and down the holes).

I don't think a 2000 year old civilisation rest on such a premise. Do you really think it does?

Paul thought the world was to end in his lifetime, he had no time to lose.

The regurgitation of his tenet in modern day evangelistic neo-Christianity is a vacuous anachronism.

so no comment on my daughter's miracle?

I have just read about cases where spina bifida can heal on its own.

"Some doctors do not use surgery but let the area heal on its own."

http://www.babycentre.co.uk/a1024195/spina-bifida#ixzz2zPoLlQ4l

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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longweekend58

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #634 - Apr 20^th, 2014 at 8:34pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 7:07pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 6:49pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 6:13pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 6:07pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 5:51pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 4:17pm:

Would you like to know how to play the flute? It's easy - you blow in one end and move your finders up and down the holes.

Yes, that would be my point. To suggest a vacuous and superficial tenet (acceptance of Jesus as saviour), will suffice to offer, by that fact alone, redemption from oneself, without regard to the complexities of one's disorders is similar, in its intent, to a lotto advert (or, if you like, to promise talent as a flautist by simply blowing in one end and moving your finders up and down the holes).

I don't think a 2000 year old civilisation rest on such a premise. Do you really think it does?

Paul thought the world was to end in his lifetime, he had no time to lose.

The regurgitation of his tenet in modern day evangelistic neo-Christianity is a vacuous anachronism.

so no comment on my daughter's miracle?

I have just read about cases where spina bifida can heal on its own.

"Some doctors do not use surgery but let the area heal on its own."

http://www.babycentre.co.uk/a1024195/spina-bifida#ixzz2zPoLlQ4l

talk about out of context. the spina bifida I am referring to is with the sac outside the body AND the nerves already partially damaged. there is NO healing on its own from that - especially not literally overnight.

But I've read enough of your posts to know that if I pose the same question I pose others on this, I will get the same answers.

'what standard of proof would you accept as evidence of a miracle"

The answer I will get will be either nothing at all or a standard of proof that is literally impossible to achieve.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #635 - Apr 20^th, 2014 at 8:42pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 8:34pm:

talk about out of context. the spina bifida I am referring to is with the sac outside the body AND the nerves already partially damaged. there is NO healing on its own from that - especially not literally overnight.

But I've read enough of your posts to know that if I pose the same question I pose others on this, I will get the same answers.

'what standard of proof would you accept as evidence of a miracle"

The answer I will get will be either nothing at all or a standard of proof that is literally impossible to achieve.

Then it is a matter of faith and is not up for debate.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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longweekend58

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #636 - Apr 20^th, 2014 at 8:52pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 8:42pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 8:34pm:

talk about out of context. the spina bifida I am referring to is with the sac outside the body AND the nerves already partially damaged. there is NO healing on its own from that - especially not literally overnight.

But I've read enough of your posts to know that if I pose the same question I pose others on this, I will get the same answers.

'what standard of proof would you accept as evidence of a miracle"

The answer I will get will be either nothing at all or a standard of proof that is literally impossible to achieve.

Then it is a matter of faith and is not up for debate.

Well I will give you this: it is an original response. But it is still the utterly cowardly one. I expect no more from atheists.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74446 Gender:	Re: How gullible are some people? Reply #637 - Apr 20^th, 2014 at 9:13pm How gullible are some people? as you can see from some of longies responses ... some are very gullible
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #638 - Apr 20^th, 2014 at 9:19pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 8:52pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 8:42pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 8:34pm:

talk about out of context. the spina bifida I am referring to is with the sac outside the body AND the nerves already partially damaged. there is NO healing on its own from that - especially not literally overnight.

But I've read enough of your posts to know that if I pose the same question I pose others on this, I will get the same answers.

'what standard of proof would you accept as evidence of a miracle"

The answer I will get will be either nothing at all or a standard of proof that is literally impossible to achieve.

Then it is a matter of faith and is not up for debate.

Well I will give you this: it is an original response. But it is still the utterly cowardly one. I expect no more from atheists.

Hardly an original response... Karl Popper would have said the same.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #639 - Apr 20^th, 2014 at 9:53pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 8:52pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 8:42pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 8:34pm:

talk about out of context. the spina bifida I am referring to is with the sac outside the body AND the nerves already partially damaged. there is NO healing on its own from that - especially not literally overnight.

But I've read enough of your posts to know that if I pose the same question I pose others on this, I will get the same answers.

'what standard of proof would you accept as evidence of a miracle"

The answer I will get will be either nothing at all or a standard of proof that is literally impossible to achieve.

Then it is a matter of faith and is not up for debate.

Well I will give you this: it is an original response. But it is still the utterly cowardly one. I expect no more from atheists.

BTW... How can it be a matter of cowardice when you hold all the cards?

I can't investigate your assertion that your daughter was cured by a miracle. You haven't posted your daughter's medical records, nor a doctor's statement where he declares professional opinion.

All I have is a post by an entity who calls himself longweekend58.

From that I am expected to take you at your word (whoever you are)... Anything less is an insult?

An extraordinary claim... With no independent evidence that will likely be published on a public forum.... Who is the coward?

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Soren

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #640 - Apr 20^th, 2014 at 10:16pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 6:13pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 6:07pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 5:51pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 4:17pm:

Would you like to know how to play the flute? It's easy - you blow in one end and move your finders up and down the holes.

Yes, that would be my point. To suggest a vacuous and superficial tenet (acceptance of Jesus as saviour), will suffice to offer, by that fact alone, redemption from oneself, without regard to the complexities of one's disorders is similar, in its intent, to a lotto advert (or, if you like, to promise talent as a flautist by simply blowing in one end and moving your finders up and down the holes).

I don't think a 2000 year old civilisation rest on such a premise. Do you really think it does?

Paul thought the world was to end in his lifetime, he had no time to lose.

The regurgitation of his tenet in modern day evangelistic neo-Christianity is a vacuous anachronism.

Sorry, I thought we were talking about Christianity as such, not about any one/dozen of its micro sects and interpretations.

Just to be clear, I am talking about Christianity in a non-denominational, non-churchy sense. Perhaps I can do this as a non-Christian. Sectarianism may well be a curse/cross actual Christians must carry but I am not carrying it and so I am not talking out from under any such particular curse/cross.
Not something you can say, I strongly sense.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #641 - Apr 20^th, 2014 at 10:45pm

Soren wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 10:16pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 6:13pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 6:07pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 5:51pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 4:17pm:

Would you like to know how to play the flute? It's easy - you blow in one end and move your finders up and down the holes.

Yes, that would be my point. To suggest a vacuous and superficial tenet (acceptance of Jesus as saviour), will suffice to offer, by that fact alone, redemption from oneself, without regard to the complexities of one's disorders is similar, in its intent, to a lotto advert (or, if you like, to promise talent as a flautist by simply blowing in one end and moving your finders up and down the holes).

I don't think a 2000 year old civilisation rest on such a premise. Do you really think it does?

Paul thought the world was to end in his lifetime, he had no time to lose.

The regurgitation of his tenet in modern day evangelistic neo-Christianity is a vacuous anachronism.

Sorry, I thought we were talking about Christianity as such, not about any one/dozen of its micro sects and interpretations.

Hardly a micro sect or interpretation. Neo-Christianity is a significant force within 'Christendom'... And its sale is akin to that of anything else that is spruiked... (From lotto adverts to losing weight while watching TV). Instant salvation via vacuous tenets that are calibrated to attract adherents for its own sake with spurious claims of redemption from oneself with little effort.

Soren wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 10:16pm:

Just to be clear, I am talking about Christianity in a non-denominational, non-churchy sense. Perhaps I can do this as a non-Christian.

Perhaps you can... But then, you'd agree, as I know you do, that the Christian myth is irrelevant, just as you'd say that the truth of the 'Juliet balcony' is irrelevant.

In other words (paraphrasing you), if someone insisted that you accept the historicity (or truth) of the balcony as a prerequisite for its focusing of your mind as you stood below it, would you agree?

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longweekend58

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #642 - Apr 21^st, 2014 at 10:20am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 9:53pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 8:52pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 8:42pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 20^th, 2014 at 8:34pm:

talk about out of context. the spina bifida I am referring to is with the sac outside the body AND the nerves already partially damaged. there is NO healing on its own from that - especially not literally overnight.

But I've read enough of your posts to know that if I pose the same question I pose others on this, I will get the same answers.

'what standard of proof would you accept as evidence of a miracle"

The answer I will get will be either nothing at all or a standard of proof that is literally impossible to achieve.

Then it is a matter of faith and is not up for debate.

Well I will give you this: it is an original response. But it is still the utterly cowardly one. I expect no more from atheists.

BTW... How can it be a matter of cowardice when you hold all the cards?

I can't investigate your assertion that your daughter was cured by a miracle. You haven't posted your daughter's medical records, nor a doctor's statement where he declares professional opinion.

All I have is a post by an entity who calls himself longweekend58.

From that I am expected to take you at your word (whoever you are)... Anything less is an insult?

An extraordinary claim... With no independent evidence that will likely be published on a public forum.... Who is the coward?

and if that is to be your position then discussion or debate of any kind is pointless, isn't it? I have no reasons to lie and I have been telling this story on forums for over 10 years and consistently so. Naturally I have no interestino of any kind of publish private medical records and one would hope that the reson why would be rather obvious. But it would be pointless anyhow. you would still say it either didn't happen or there was some other reason. You decline to declare a standard of proof because you realise miracles (and there are quire a number) would frequently exceed it. So your only option is to either increase the standard of proof to the literally unattainable or decline to engage the debate.

Choosing the latter does not make you much of a debater. I say 'coward' and you provide the proof.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #643 - Apr 21^st, 2014 at 10:43am

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 21^st, 2014 at 10:20am:

and if that is to be your position then discussion or debate of any kind is pointless, isn't it? I have no reasons to lie and I have been telling this story on forums for over 10 years and consistently so. Naturally I have no interestino of any kind of publish private medical records and one would hope that the reson why would be rather obvious. But it would be pointless anyhow. you would still say it either didn't happen or there was some other reason. You decline to declare a standard of proof because you realise miracles (and there are quire a number) would frequently exceed it. So your only option is to either increase the standard of proof to the literally unattainable or decline to engage the debate.

Choosing the latter does not make you much of a debater. I say 'coward' and you provide the proof.

Debate requires openness to scrutiny. You cannot provide any material for scrutiny and I accept that you will not and should not publish private material for the obvious reasons.

However, that puts your story in the category of a matter of faith. You intend to offer the reader nothing else but your story.

But to react with contempt when you are doubted is dishonest and arrogant.

What is it to insist that I and others accept that it must be true because you have been saying it for 10 years?

How do you rationalise that your readers must necessarily assume you have no reason to lie? I don't know you. I don't know whether or not you have a daughter. I can't know whether or not she even had spina bifida...

This form of testifying is common in many Christian sects... Where the testifier is not expected to provide proof... The congregation is feeding off the same hyperbolic emotions that you are... A spurious need to prove that Jesus saved your daughter via a miracle...

To call me a coward is a modern day version of the 16th century condemnation of apostates for failing to take as a matter of faith, god's existence or presence in the world... It is a ridiculous anachronism, similar to a modern Catholic condemning Galileo .

This is neo-Christianity's greatest flaw... Its insistence that its adherents' return to the 16th century in their crude and belligerent religious chauvinism.

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John Smith

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Re: How gullible are some people?
Reply #644 - Apr 21^st, 2014 at 11:31am

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 21^st, 2014 at 10:20am:

and if that is to be your position then discussion or debate of any kind is pointless, isn't it? I have no reasons to lie and I have been telling this story on forums for over 10 years and consistently so

1. despite no reason to lie, you have been caught lying on multiple occassions
2. first time I've seen this story and I've been on here for 2 yrs.

discussing anything with you is pointless .... you don't pull your head out of your arse long enough to listen to any opposing views. To call North a coward because he refuses to comment on your daughters case without the facts shows just how far up your rectum your head actually is ... I bet you can see your tonsils from there.

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