Australian Politics Forum - PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?

Aussie

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Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #15 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:02pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:49pm:

There will be no double dissolution and PUP will vote to repeal the carbon tax.

Clear?

Perhaps.....and I expect the PUP electorates of Faifax, Qld, Tassie and possibly WA (see after this weekend) to benefit greatly. PUP will not give those votes away lightly. It'll cost Abbott, and Clive might well deliver a substantial bone for the Sunshine Coast (of which his seat Fairfax is part) none of his LNP predecessors here bothered to.

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Bread and Butter

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Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #16 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:08pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:57pm:

Really, Abbott should just call Palmer's bluff - goes for both his shenanigans with the mining tax orphan payment thing, and the carbon tax. Tell him straight up: "we won't give one inch of concessions - because we know you want these taxes repealed. Oppose if you dare". Palmer will have no choice but to agree - and in the process prove that he is all bluster and no substance.

Abbott could destroy Palmer if he plays his cards right.

Polls are funny things. While the federal polls say Abbot is in trouble we get a genuine measurement this weekend in WA. If Labor does as badly as the polls predict then Abbott may be emboldened to repeat his thread of a DD. If PUP ends up forcing a DD his party will be destroyed.

What if polling shows people will support Abbott in his fight with PUP? The carbon tax is terribly unpopular as is anyone who stand in the way of its repeal.

Abbott has the advice of Howard in the background who is about as wiley and adversary as you can find while Palmer is the absolute opposite.

Interesting days but I still believe the repeal will go ahead.

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Bread and Butter

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Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #17 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:10pm

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:02pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:49pm:

There will be no double dissolution and PUP will vote to repeal the carbon tax.

Clear?

Perhaps.....and I expect the PUP electorates of Faifax, Qld, Tassie and possibly WA (see after this weekend) to benefit greatly. PUP will not give those votes away lightly. It'll cost Abbott, and Clive might well deliver a substantial bone for the Sunshine Coast (of which his seat Fairfax is part) none of his LNP predecessors here bothered to.

I think your beliefs are postulated on the assumption that Palmer is being altruistic in his political foray. That needs to be proven and to date, he hasn't demonstrated much of that.

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____

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Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #18 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:11pm

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:57pm:

____ wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:51pm:

If the carbon levy is as bad on the economy as Abbott makes out then retrospective repeal means massive mining investment from the repealed cash. And that means jobs.

If Abbott doesn't agree with PUPs demands then Abbott is anti the economy and anti jobs ... unless Abbott has lied all this time and the carbon levy isn't as bad as he has made out.

PUP has everything to gain from screwing abbott and we know Palmer is looking for revenge.

There is so much illogical posturing and blatant nonsense in that as to question your thought processes. Have you ever debated on point, head to head with anyone before?

Abbott is being outflanked by Palmer over the carbon levy.

If the carbon levy is bad then it should be all paid back to struggling miners so they can invest it into a new mining boom.

Anything less and Abbott exposes himself as a liar and a con. So how important is Abbott's election promise on repealing the carbon levy. Enough to sink the spin that we have a budget emergency?

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Aussie

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Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #19 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:13pm

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:08pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:57pm:

Really, Abbott should just call Palmer's bluff - goes for both his shenanigans with the mining tax orphan payment thing, and the carbon tax. Tell him straight up: "we won't give one inch of concessions - because we know you want these taxes repealed. Oppose if you dare". Palmer will have no choice but to agree - and in the process prove that he is all bluster and no substance.

Abbott could destroy Palmer if he plays his cards right.

Polls are funny things. While the federal polls say Abbot is in trouble we get a genuine measurement this weekend in WA. If Labor does as badly as the polls predict then Abbott may be emboldened to repeat his thread of a DD. If PUP ends up forcing a DD his party will be destroyed.

What if polling shows people will support Abbott in his fight with PUP? The carbon tax is terribly unpopular as is anyone who stand in the way of its repeal.

Abbott has the advice of Howard in the background who is about as wiley and adversary as you can find while Palmer is the absolute opposite.

Interesting days but I still believe the repeal will go ahead.

Do you have any links to these alleged Polls? Please back that claim up.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38644 Gender:	Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote? Reply #20 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:24pm Quote: The carbon tax is terribly unpopular as is anyone who stand in the way of its repeal. The ALP is standing in the way of said repeal, and they are well ahead in the Polls. (Nah...don't even bother asking for a link. We all know it, even the rusted on LNP supporters here.)
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cods

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Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #21 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:27pm

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:19pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:16pm:

An abstention is as good as a vote of no. The senate requires 39 votes for legislation to pass and without PUP will not occur.

I am sure even Palmer (we hope) will be able to see through that.

There is zero reason for Lazarus, Lambi and the possible WA person to abstain. They are obligated to their supporters to vote in accordance with their published Policy document.

this is what I dont understand he can keep bleating about what he will vote for/..

yet we are told he cannot vote on anything that he has an interest in!!! yet those who have been elected to the senate can do so????...

isnt their some law that says no that cannot happen...seems like he would get a bite of the cherry both ways in that respect....as he only has one vote.. yet he has 3 in the senate..

sorry but I dont think people read the fine print...like he will vote for the repeal of CARBON TAX>..[see even he knows they have a mandate.]. he knows thats what people want.

but ONLY IF ITS PAID BACK.....

did they really read that part?...

do they understand its all been spent and will have to be BORROWED...

and in the long run that means they will be paying the refund... Roll Eyes

it wont come out of gillards retirement fund thats for sure.

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cods

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Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #22 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:28pm

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:24pm:

Quote:

The carbon tax is terribly unpopular as is anyone who stand in the way of its repeal.

The ALP is standing in the way of said repeal, and they are well ahead in the Polls. (Nah...don't even bother asking for a link. We all know it, even the rusted on LNP supporters here.)

you wish..... I cant think of one person who wants shorty as PM.... oops apart from the rusted on on here... they never did have any brains.

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Bread and Butter

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Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #23 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:28pm

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:13pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:08pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:57pm:

Really, Abbott should just call Palmer's bluff - goes for both his shenanigans with the mining tax orphan payment thing, and the carbon tax. Tell him straight up: "we won't give one inch of concessions - because we know you want these taxes repealed. Oppose if you dare". Palmer will have no choice but to agree - and in the process prove that he is all bluster and no substance.

Abbott could destroy Palmer if he plays his cards right.

Polls are funny things. While the federal polls say Abbot is in trouble we get a genuine measurement this weekend in WA. If Labor does as badly as the polls predict then Abbott may be emboldened to repeat his thread of a DD. If PUP ends up forcing a DD his party will be destroyed.

What if polling shows people will support Abbott in his fight with PUP? The carbon tax is terribly unpopular as is anyone who stand in the way of its repeal.

Abbott has the advice of Howard in the background who is about as wiley and adversary as you can find while Palmer is the absolute opposite.

Interesting days but I still believe the repeal will go ahead.

Do you have any links to these alleged Polls? Please back that claim up.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/liberals-rebound-in-the-west-newspoll/story-fn59niix-1226869270433#

I understand your confusion. The poll was a 'real long time ago'.

Yesterday.

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Bread and Butter

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Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #24 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:31pm

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:24pm:

Quote:

The carbon tax is terribly unpopular as is anyone who stand in the way of its repeal.

The ALP is standing in the way of said repeal, and they are well ahead in the Polls. (Nah...don't even bother asking for a link. We all know it, even the rusted on LNP supporters here.)

So let me get this straight. When the Libs are in govt on the back of a landslide, in large measure because of the carbon tax it is NOT a repudiation of the carbon tax, but when labor holds a lead in opinion l polls YEARS out from an election, it is meaningful?

I understand the ALP opposing the repeal even though they are wrong. I see no reason at all for PUP to oppose the repeal. That is nonsensical.

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crocodile

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Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #25 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:35pm

Quote:

And if Abbott did go the DD route, PUP are exterminated regardless of the outcome and as soon as perhaps 6 months.

Not so sure about that. Perhaps in the lower house where only one seat is held. A full senate election is another matter. The participants only require half a quota to get across the line. They may actually improve their senate numbers.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Bread and Butter

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Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #26 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:40pm

crocodile wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:35pm:

Quote:

And if Abbott did go the DD route, PUP are exterminated regardless of the outcome and as soon as perhaps 6 months.

Not so sure about that. Perhaps in the lower house where only one seat is held. A full senate election is another matter. The participants only require half a quota to get across the line. They may actually improve their senate numbers.

Voters hate DD elections and punish parties that push extra elections on them. They also take umbrage at having their wishes ignored. Gillard was destroyed by the carbon tax as a clear example. Labor would take a hit but PUP - as architects of the DD - would be virtually eliminated.

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Aussie

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Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #27 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:40pm

I've made your link to one of Murdoch's schmedia weapons 'live.'

Click here.

As you can see, it is a pay to look piece....and I am not about to hand Murdoch a brass razoo.

Quote:

So let me get this straight. When the Libs are in govt on the back of a landslide, in large measure because of the carbon tax it is NOT a repudiation of the carbon tax, but when labor holds a lead in opinion l polls YEARS out from an election, it is meaningful?

Don't you remember what you post? You said that anyone standing in the way of a repeal was unpopular. The Polls prove otherwise, given that the ALP (yesterday) was opposing the repeal........and (yesterday) they were more popular than the LNP.

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« Last Edit: Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:47pm by Aussie »

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____

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Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #28 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:43pm

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:31pm:

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:24pm:

Quote:

The carbon tax is terribly unpopular as is anyone who stand in the way of its repeal.

The ALP is standing in the way of said repeal, and they are well ahead in the Polls. (Nah...don't even bother asking for a link. We all know it, even the rusted on LNP supporters here.)

So let me get this straight. When the Libs are in govt on the back of a landslide, in large measure because of the carbon tax it is NOT a repudiation of the carbon tax, but when labor holds a lead in opinion l polls YEARS out from an election, it is meaningful?

I understand the ALP opposing the repeal even though they are wrong. I see no reason at all for PUP to oppose the repeal. That is nonsensical.

It's not PUP opposing the repeal, it will be the Libs.

Abbott wants a repeal lite ... PUP a full repeal.

Why is Abbott limp wristed over repealing the carbon levy.

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Bread and Butter

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Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #29 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:49pm

____ wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:43pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:31pm:

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:24pm:

Quote:

The carbon tax is terribly unpopular as is anyone who stand in the way of its repeal.

The ALP is standing in the way of said repeal, and they are well ahead in the Polls. (Nah...don't even bother asking for a link. We all know it, even the rusted on LNP supporters here.)

So let me get this straight. When the Libs are in govt on the back of a landslide, in large measure because of the carbon tax it is NOT a repudiation of the carbon tax, but when labor holds a lead in opinion l polls YEARS out from an election, it is meaningful?

I understand the ALP opposing the repeal even though they are wrong. I see no reason at all for PUP to oppose the repeal. That is nonsensical.

It's not PUP opposing the repeal, it will be the Libs.

Abbott wants a repeal lite ... PUP a full repeal.

Why is Abbott limp wristed over repealing the carbon levy.

That doesn't make any sense to anyone. Why don't you stick to the same topic as the rest of us and avoid such excursions into La-la land.

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Question: PUP Senators Should
Vote on Retrospective Repealing of Levy Abstain from the Vote Undecided « Created by: ____ on: Apr 1^st, 2014 at 2:41pm »