Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Poll Poll
Question: PUP Senators Should



« Created by: ____ on: Apr 1st, 2014 at 2:41pm »

Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote? (Read 1954 times)
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 38644
Gender: male
Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #30 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:51pm
 
Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:40pm:
crocodile wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:35pm:
Quote:
And if Abbott did go the DD route, PUP are exterminated regardless of the outcome and as soon as perhaps 6 months.


Not so sure about that. Perhaps in the lower house where only one seat is held. A full senate election is another matter. The participants only require half a quota to get across the line. They may actually improve their senate numbers.


Voters hate DD elections and punish parties that push extra elections on them.  They also take umbrage at having their wishes ignored.  Gillard was destroyed by the carbon tax as a clear example. Labor would take a hit but PUP - as architects of the DD - would be virtually eliminated.


Nah.  History is not entirely on your side there.

Click here.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
____
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 33410
Australia
Gender: male
Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #31 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:56pm
 
Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:49pm:
____ wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:43pm:
Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:31pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:24pm:
Quote:
The carbon tax is terribly unpopular as is anyone who stand in the way of its repeal.


The ALP is standing in the way of said repeal, and they are well ahead in the Polls.  (Nah...don't even bother asking for a link.  We all know it, even the rusted on LNP supporters here.)


So let me get this straight.  When the Libs are in govt on the back of a landslide, in large measure because of the carbon tax it is NOT a repudiation of the carbon tax, but when labor holds a lead in opinion l polls YEARS out from an election, it is meaningful?

I understand the ALP opposing the repeal even though they are wrong. I see no reason at all for PUP to oppose the repeal. That is nonsensical.



It's not PUP opposing the repeal, it will be the Libs.

Abbott wants a repeal lite ... PUP a full repeal.

Why is Abbott limp wristed over repealing the carbon levy.


That doesn't make any sense to anyone. Why don't you stick to the same topic as the rest of us and avoid such excursions into La-la land.



When where you voted spokesperson for the everyone.

Libs are forwarding an agenda of repeal lite and PUP are positioning to undermine the Libs.

By opposing PUPs full repeal, it shows Abbott's wanted repeal is not required and is just a political stunt.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Bread and Butter
Senior Member
****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 390
Gender: female
Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #32 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:57pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:51pm:
Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:40pm:
crocodile wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:35pm:
Quote:
And if Abbott did go the DD route, PUP are exterminated regardless of the outcome and as soon as perhaps 6 months.


Not so sure about that. Perhaps in the lower house where only one seat is held. A full senate election is another matter. The participants only require half a quota to get across the line. They may actually improve their senate numbers.


Voters hate DD elections and punish parties that push extra elections on them.  They also take umbrage at having their wishes ignored.  Gillard was destroyed by the carbon tax as a clear example. Labor would take a hit but PUP - as architects of the DD - would be virtually eliminated.


Nah.  History is not entirely on your side there.

Click here.


There is too little history on which to make many certain outcome predictions.

in 1987 the re-election of the hawke govt was not because of the australia card - which was very unpopular - but because of Joh and is incessant ego and fiddling.

1983 was Fraser being foolish and going early for an election he was never going to win even against Bill Hayden.

1975 is a precedent for nothing.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Bread and Butter
Senior Member
****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 390
Gender: female
Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #33 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:59pm
 
____ wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:56pm:
Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:49pm:
____ wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:43pm:
Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:31pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:24pm:
Quote:
The carbon tax is terribly unpopular as is anyone who stand in the way of its repeal.


The ALP is standing in the way of said repeal, and they are well ahead in the Polls.  (Nah...don't even bother asking for a link.  We all know it, even the rusted on LNP supporters here.)


So let me get this straight.  When the Libs are in govt on the back of a landslide, in large measure because of the carbon tax it is NOT a repudiation of the carbon tax, but when labor holds a lead in opinion l polls YEARS out from an election, it is meaningful?

I understand the ALP opposing the repeal even though they are wrong. I see no reason at all for PUP to oppose the repeal. That is nonsensical.



It's not PUP opposing the repeal, it will be the Libs.

Abbott wants a repeal lite ... PUP a full repeal.

Why is Abbott limp wristed over repealing the carbon levy.


That doesn't make any sense to anyone. Why don't you stick to the same topic as the rest of us and avoid such excursions into La-la land.



When where you voted spokesperson for the everyone.

Libs are forwarding an agenda of repeal lite and PUP are positioning to undermine the Libs.

By opposing PUPs full repeal, it shows Abbott's wanted repeal is not required and is just a political stunt.


your concept of 'full repeal' is absurd which is why your entire post was also thus. Did the repeal of Workchoices mean all employers had to make alterations for 3 years of salaries?  Stick to the topic and try and stay in the same universe as the rest of us.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 38644
Gender: male
Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #34 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 5:06pm
 
Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:57pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:51pm:
Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:40pm:
crocodile wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:35pm:
Quote:
And if Abbott did go the DD route, PUP are exterminated regardless of the outcome and as soon as perhaps 6 months.


Not so sure about that. Perhaps in the lower house where only one seat is held. A full senate election is another matter. The participants only require half a quota to get across the line. They may actually improve their senate numbers.


Voters hate DD elections and punish parties that push extra elections on them.  They also take umbrage at having their wishes ignored.  Gillard was destroyed by the carbon tax as a clear example. Labor would take a hit but PUP - as architects of the DD - would be virtually eliminated.


Nah.  History is not entirely on your side there.

Click here.


There is too little history on which to make many certain outcome predictions.

in 1987 the re-election of the hawke govt was not because of the australia card - which was very unpopular - but because of Joh and is incessant ego and fiddling.

1983 was Fraser being foolish and going early for an election he was never going to win even against Bill Hayden.

1975 is a precedent for nothing.



True, but that did not prevent you posting this:

Quote:
Voters hate DD elections and punish parties that push extra elections on them.


Mr B & B.....you seem to forget what you have said only hours before you contradict yourself.  There has only been six DD elections, and the outcomes do not conclusively support your proposition.

This is very confusing for Members. 
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
crocodile
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 6683
Gender: male
Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #35 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 5:08pm
 
Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:57pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:51pm:
Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:40pm:
crocodile wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:35pm:
Quote:
And if Abbott did go the DD route, PUP are exterminated regardless of the outcome and as soon as perhaps 6 months.


Not so sure about that. Perhaps in the lower house where only one seat is held. A full senate election is another matter. The participants only require half a quota to get across the line. They may actually improve their senate numbers.


Voters hate DD elections and punish parties that push extra elections on them.  They also take umbrage at having their wishes ignored.  Gillard was destroyed by the carbon tax as a clear example. Labor would take a hit but PUP - as architects of the DD - would be virtually eliminated.


Nah.  History is not entirely on your side there.

Click here.


There is too little history on which to make many certain outcome predictions.

in 1987 the re-election of the hawke govt was not because of the australia card - which was very unpopular - but because of Joh and is incessant ego and fiddling.

1983 was Fraser being foolish and going early for an election he was never going to win even against Bill Hayden.

1975 is a precedent for nothing.



There is not a lot of history to go on. There is also not enough history to claim "Voters hate DD elections and punish parties that push extra elections on them.  They also take umbrage at having their wishes ignored."

I could be wrong but I can't recall a government being returned with an increased majority after a DD so taking umbrage at having their wishes ignored doesn't seem a forgone conclusion.

I still see downside risks to Abbott calling a DD hoping for a friendlier senate. That half a quota conundrum is hard to ignore.
Back to top
 

Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
IP Logged
 
____
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 33410
Australia
Gender: male
Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #36 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 5:08pm
 
Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:59pm:
____ wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:56pm:
Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:49pm:
____ wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:43pm:
Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:31pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:24pm:
Quote:
The carbon tax is terribly unpopular as is anyone who stand in the way of its repeal.


The ALP is standing in the way of said repeal, and they are well ahead in the Polls.  (Nah...don't even bother asking for a link.  We all know it, even the rusted on LNP supporters here.)


So let me get this straight.  When the Libs are in govt on the back of a landslide, in large measure because of the carbon tax it is NOT a repudiation of the carbon tax, but when labor holds a lead in opinion l polls YEARS out from an election, it is meaningful?

I understand the ALP opposing the repeal even though they are wrong. I see no reason at all for PUP to oppose the repeal. That is nonsensical.



It's not PUP opposing the repeal, it will be the Libs.

Abbott wants a repeal lite ... PUP a full repeal.

Why is Abbott limp wristed over repealing the carbon levy.


That doesn't make any sense to anyone. Why don't you stick to the same topic as the rest of us and avoid such excursions into La-la land.



When where you voted spokesperson for the everyone.

Libs are forwarding an agenda of repeal lite and PUP are positioning to undermine the Libs.

By opposing PUPs full repeal, it shows Abbott's wanted repeal is not required and is just a political stunt.


your concept of 'full repeal' is absurd which is why your entire post was also thus. Did the repeal of Workchoices mean all employers had to make alterations for 3 years of salaries?  Stick to the topic and try and stay in the same universe as the rest of us.



PUP is now in position to wedge Abbott on repealing the carbon levy and only the ignorant would deny the likeliness of Palmer to tap this wedge to it's fullest.

In a DD, abbott would be flatfooted with Palmer demanding a full repeal of the carbon levy and Greens demanding a constructive approach to AGW. Abbott's message would be blunted and that will cost the coalition.

It will be a disadvantage for abbott to go to a DD and abbott caving to PUP is a more likely result.

The next question would be how will abbott fund a full repeal?


Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Bread and Butter
Senior Member
****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 390
Gender: female
Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #37 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 5:12pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 5:06pm:
Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:57pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:51pm:
Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:40pm:
crocodile wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:35pm:
Quote:
And if Abbott did go the DD route, PUP are exterminated regardless of the outcome and as soon as perhaps 6 months.


Not so sure about that. Perhaps in the lower house where only one seat is held. A full senate election is another matter. The participants only require half a quota to get across the line. They may actually improve their senate numbers.


Voters hate DD elections and punish parties that push extra elections on them.  They also take umbrage at having their wishes ignored.  Gillard was destroyed by the carbon tax as a clear example. Labor would take a hit but PUP - as architects of the DD - would be virtually eliminated.


Nah.  History is not entirely on your side there.

Click here.


There is too little history on which to make many certain outcome predictions.

in 1987 the re-election of the hawke govt was not because of the australia card - which was very unpopular - but because of Joh and is incessant ego and fiddling.

1983 was Fraser being foolish and going early for an election he was never going to win even against Bill Hayden.

1975 is a precedent for nothing.



True, but that did not prevent you posting this:

Quote:
Voters hate DD elections and punish parties that push extra elections on them.


Mr B & B.....you seem to forget what you have said only hours before you contradict yourself.  There has only been six DD elections, and the outcomes do not conclusively support your proposition.

This is very confusing for Members. 


If you want to try and understand comments you might well try and do exactly that. IN almost every DD election, the party in power lost votes. Hawke pushed an inexcusable early election in 84 and was punished for it - badly. He was mauled.

That substantiates my claim that voters hate DDs and early elections and punish parties for it.  That in no way invalidates the claim that there is too little history on which to make CERTAIN OUTCOME PREDICTIONS. (caps for your benefit)

try and keep up.  When you start nit-picking on every little phrase and word then I know you are already on the back foot. You are like the lawyer looking for tiny technical holes on which to base an appeal, knowing you have already lost your case.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
cods
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 88048
Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #38 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 5:31pm
 
Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:31pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:24pm:
Quote:
The carbon tax is terribly unpopular as is anyone who stand in the way of its repeal.


The ALP is standing in the way of said repeal, and they are well ahead in the Polls.  (Nah...don't even bother asking for a link.  We all know it, even the rusted on LNP supporters here.)


So let me get this straight.  When the Libs are in govt on the back of a landslide, in large measure because of the carbon tax it is NOT a repudiation of the carbon tax, but when labor holds a lead in opinion l polls YEARS out from an election, it is meaningful?

I understand the ALP opposing the repeal even though they are wrong. I see no reason at all for PUP to oppose the repeal. That is nonsensical.




thats not what krudd went to the election with.... he said it was going....oh I forgot we dont take any notice of what they say before an election do we..
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 38644
Gender: male
Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #39 - Apr 1st, 2014 at 5:55pm
 
Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 5:12pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 5:06pm:
Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:57pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:51pm:
Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:40pm:
crocodile wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 4:35pm:
Quote:
And if Abbott did go the DD route, PUP are exterminated regardless of the outcome and as soon as perhaps 6 months.


Not so sure about that. Perhaps in the lower house where only one seat is held. A full senate election is another matter. The participants only require half a quota to get across the line. They may actually improve their senate numbers.


Voters hate DD elections and punish parties that push extra elections on them.  They also take umbrage at having their wishes ignored.  Gillard was destroyed by the carbon tax as a clear example. Labor would take a hit but PUP - as architects of the DD - would be virtually eliminated.


Nah.  History is not entirely on your side there.

Click here.


There is too little history on which to make many certain outcome predictions.

in 1987 the re-election of the hawke govt was not because of the australia card - which was very unpopular - but because of Joh and is incessant ego and fiddling.

1983 was Fraser being foolish and going early for an election he was never going to win even against Bill Hayden.

1975 is a precedent for nothing.



True, but that did not prevent you posting this:

Quote:
Voters hate DD elections and punish parties that push extra elections on them.


Mr B & B.....you seem to forget what you have said only hours before you contradict yourself.  There has only been six DD elections, and the outcomes do not conclusively support your proposition.

This is very confusing for Members. 


If you want to try and understand comments you might well try and do exactly that. IN almost every DD election, the party in power lost votes. Hawke pushed an inexcusable early election in 84 and was punished for it - badly. He was mauled.

That substantiates my claim that voters hate DDs and early elections and punish parties for it.  That in no way invalidates the claim that there is too little history on which to make CERTAIN OUTCOME PREDICTIONS. (caps for your benefit)

try and keep up.  When you start nit-picking on every little phrase and word then I know you are already on the back foot. You are like the lawyer looking for tiny technical holes on which to base an appeal, knowing you have already lost your case.


Smiley




Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #40 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 6:37pm
 
Please "Bread and Butter" don't call him a lawyer...
Apart from claiming to be one he show little that goes to the credibility of the claim.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 38644
Gender: male
Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #41 - Apr 2nd, 2014 at 6:40pm
 
Grendel wrote on Apr 2nd, 2014 at 6:37pm:
Please "Bread and Butter" don't call him a lawyer...
Apart from claiming to be one he show little that goes to the credibility of the claim.


He didn't.

Smiley
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print