Australian Politics Forum - PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?

Aussie

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Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #30 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:51pm

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:40pm:

crocodile wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:35pm:

Quote:

And if Abbott did go the DD route, PUP are exterminated regardless of the outcome and as soon as perhaps 6 months.

Not so sure about that. Perhaps in the lower house where only one seat is held. A full senate election is another matter. The participants only require half a quota to get across the line. They may actually improve their senate numbers.

Voters hate DD elections and punish parties that push extra elections on them. They also take umbrage at having their wishes ignored. Gillard was destroyed by the carbon tax as a clear example. Labor would take a hit but PUP - as architects of the DD - would be virtually eliminated.

Nah. History is not entirely on your side there.

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____

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Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #31 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:56pm

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:49pm:

____ wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:43pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:31pm:

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:24pm:

Quote:

The carbon tax is terribly unpopular as is anyone who stand in the way of its repeal.

The ALP is standing in the way of said repeal, and they are well ahead in the Polls. (Nah...don't even bother asking for a link. We all know it, even the rusted on LNP supporters here.)

So let me get this straight. When the Libs are in govt on the back of a landslide, in large measure because of the carbon tax it is NOT a repudiation of the carbon tax, but when labor holds a lead in opinion l polls YEARS out from an election, it is meaningful?

I understand the ALP opposing the repeal even though they are wrong. I see no reason at all for PUP to oppose the repeal. That is nonsensical.

It's not PUP opposing the repeal, it will be the Libs.

Abbott wants a repeal lite ... PUP a full repeal.

Why is Abbott limp wristed over repealing the carbon levy.

That doesn't make any sense to anyone. Why don't you stick to the same topic as the rest of us and avoid such excursions into La-la land.

When where you voted spokesperson for the everyone.

Libs are forwarding an agenda of repeal lite and PUP are positioning to undermine the Libs.

By opposing PUPs full repeal, it shows Abbott's wanted repeal is not required and is just a political stunt.

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Bread and Butter

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Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #32 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:57pm

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:51pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:40pm:

crocodile wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:35pm:

Quote:

And if Abbott did go the DD route, PUP are exterminated regardless of the outcome and as soon as perhaps 6 months.

Not so sure about that. Perhaps in the lower house where only one seat is held. A full senate election is another matter. The participants only require half a quota to get across the line. They may actually improve their senate numbers.

Voters hate DD elections and punish parties that push extra elections on them. They also take umbrage at having their wishes ignored. Gillard was destroyed by the carbon tax as a clear example. Labor would take a hit but PUP - as architects of the DD - would be virtually eliminated.

Nah. History is not entirely on your side there.

Click here.

There is too little history on which to make many certain outcome predictions.

in 1987 the re-election of the hawke govt was not because of the australia card - which was very unpopular - but because of Joh and is incessant ego and fiddling.

1983 was Fraser being foolish and going early for an election he was never going to win even against Bill Hayden.

1975 is a precedent for nothing.

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Bread and Butter

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Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #33 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:59pm

____ wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:56pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:49pm:

____ wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:43pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:31pm:

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:24pm:

Quote:

The carbon tax is terribly unpopular as is anyone who stand in the way of its repeal.

The ALP is standing in the way of said repeal, and they are well ahead in the Polls. (Nah...don't even bother asking for a link. We all know it, even the rusted on LNP supporters here.)

So let me get this straight. When the Libs are in govt on the back of a landslide, in large measure because of the carbon tax it is NOT a repudiation of the carbon tax, but when labor holds a lead in opinion l polls YEARS out from an election, it is meaningful?

I understand the ALP opposing the repeal even though they are wrong. I see no reason at all for PUP to oppose the repeal. That is nonsensical.

It's not PUP opposing the repeal, it will be the Libs.

Abbott wants a repeal lite ... PUP a full repeal.

Why is Abbott limp wristed over repealing the carbon levy.

That doesn't make any sense to anyone. Why don't you stick to the same topic as the rest of us and avoid such excursions into La-la land.

When where you voted spokesperson for the everyone.

Libs are forwarding an agenda of repeal lite and PUP are positioning to undermine the Libs.

By opposing PUPs full repeal, it shows Abbott's wanted repeal is not required and is just a political stunt.

your concept of 'full repeal' is absurd which is why your entire post was also thus. Did the repeal of Workchoices mean all employers had to make alterations for 3 years of salaries? Stick to the topic and try and stay in the same universe as the rest of us.

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Aussie

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Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #34 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 5:06pm

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:57pm:

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:51pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:40pm:

crocodile wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:35pm:

Quote:

And if Abbott did go the DD route, PUP are exterminated regardless of the outcome and as soon as perhaps 6 months.

Not so sure about that. Perhaps in the lower house where only one seat is held. A full senate election is another matter. The participants only require half a quota to get across the line. They may actually improve their senate numbers.

Voters hate DD elections and punish parties that push extra elections on them. They also take umbrage at having their wishes ignored. Gillard was destroyed by the carbon tax as a clear example. Labor would take a hit but PUP - as architects of the DD - would be virtually eliminated.

Nah. History is not entirely on your side there.

Click here.

There is too little history on which to make many certain outcome predictions.

in 1987 the re-election of the hawke govt was not because of the australia card - which was very unpopular - but because of Joh and is incessant ego and fiddling.

1983 was Fraser being foolish and going early for an election he was never going to win even against Bill Hayden.

1975 is a precedent for nothing.

True, but that did not prevent you posting this:

Quote:

Voters hate DD elections and punish parties that push extra elections on them.

Mr B & B.....you seem to forget what you have said only hours before you contradict yourself. There has only been six DD elections, and the outcomes do not conclusively support your proposition.

This is very confusing for Members.

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crocodile

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Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #35 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 5:08pm

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:57pm:

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:51pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:40pm:

crocodile wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:35pm:

Quote:

And if Abbott did go the DD route, PUP are exterminated regardless of the outcome and as soon as perhaps 6 months.

Not so sure about that. Perhaps in the lower house where only one seat is held. A full senate election is another matter. The participants only require half a quota to get across the line. They may actually improve their senate numbers.

Voters hate DD elections and punish parties that push extra elections on them. They also take umbrage at having their wishes ignored. Gillard was destroyed by the carbon tax as a clear example. Labor would take a hit but PUP - as architects of the DD - would be virtually eliminated.

Nah. History is not entirely on your side there.

Click here.

There is too little history on which to make many certain outcome predictions.

in 1987 the re-election of the hawke govt was not because of the australia card - which was very unpopular - but because of Joh and is incessant ego and fiddling.

1983 was Fraser being foolish and going early for an election he was never going to win even against Bill Hayden.

1975 is a precedent for nothing.

There is not a lot of history to go on. There is also not enough history to claim "Voters hate DD elections and punish parties that push extra elections on them. They also take umbrage at having their wishes ignored."

I could be wrong but I can't recall a government being returned with an increased majority after a DD so taking umbrage at having their wishes ignored doesn't seem a forgone conclusion.

I still see downside risks to Abbott calling a DD hoping for a friendlier senate. That half a quota conundrum is hard to ignore.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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____

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Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #36 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 5:08pm

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:59pm:

____ wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:56pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:49pm:

____ wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:43pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:31pm:

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 4:24pm:

Quote:

The carbon tax is terribly unpopular as is anyone who stand in the way of its repeal.

The ALP is standing in the way of said repeal, and they are well ahead in the Polls. (Nah...don't even bother asking for a link. We all know it, even the rusted on LNP supporters here.)

So let me get this straight. When the Libs are in govt on the back of a landslide, in large measure because of the carbon tax it is NOT a repudiation of the carbon tax, but when labor holds a lead in opinion l polls YEARS out from an election, it is meaningful?

I understand the ALP opposing the repeal even though they are wrong. I see no reason at all for PUP to oppose the repeal. That is nonsensical.

It's not PUP opposing the repeal, it will be the Libs.

Abbott wants a repeal lite ... PUP a full repeal.

Why is Abbott limp wristed over repealing the carbon levy.

That doesn't make any sense to anyone. Why don't you stick to the same topic as the rest of us and avoid such excursions into La-la land.

When where you voted spokesperson for the everyone.

Libs are forwarding an agenda of repeal lite and PUP are positioning to undermine the Libs.

By opposing PUPs full repeal, it shows Abbott's wanted repeal is not required and is just a political stunt.

your concept of 'full repeal' is absurd which is why your entire post was also thus. Did the repeal of Workchoices mean all employers had to make alterations for 3 years of salaries? Stick to the topic and try and stay in the same universe as the rest of us.

PUP is now in position to wedge Abbott on repealing the carbon levy and only the ignorant would deny the likeliness of Palmer to tap this wedge to it's fullest.

In a DD, abbott would be flatfooted with Palmer demanding a full repeal of the carbon levy and Greens demanding a constructive approach to AGW. Abbott's message would be blunted and that will cost the coalition.

It will be a disadvantage for abbott to go to a DD and abbott caving to PUP is a more likely result.

The next question would be how will abbott fund a full repeal?

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Bread and Butter

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Re: PUP Senators Abstaining From Carbon Levy Vote?
Reply #37 - Apr 1^st, 2014 at 5:12pm

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 5:06pm: