Australian Politics Forum - Your budget wish list

Bam

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male

Re: Your budget wish list
Reply #60 - Apr 3^rd, 2014 at 7:57am

Neferti wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 5:23pm:

The unemployed always want more dole money, rather than get a J*O*B*. They are so traumatised that they actually think they can get a NEW job at the same level and income that they left/got made redundant at.

The thing is to GET A BLOODY JOB .... anything, volunteering at the local Op Shop .... DO SOMETHING. Mow lawns for cash, weed gardens, etcetera. Then, when you have a bit of cash in your pocket, apply for every job you can. Add the fact that you are volunteering or lawn mowing, etc as that indicates that you are a "self starter"and willing to W*O*R*K* and not a slug.

EVENTUALLY you will strike it rich. The people who whine about "wanting more money on the dole" are the UNEMPLOYABLE riff raff.

Your post demonstrates how little you really know about the topic, being riddled with right-wing mythology.

A few FACTS to refute your MYTHS:

1. The current level of the dole is among the lowest unemployment payments in relation to average incomes for any country in the developed world. It is so low that a diverse range of groups including the ACTU and Business Council of Australia are all calling for it to be increased by at least $50 per week and have been since at least 2011. (It's rare that the ACTU and BCA agree on anything.)
2. If all available job openings were filled, there would still be over 750,000 people without any work.
3. Volunteer work does not pay anything.
4. Most employers actively discriminate against the unemployed when hiring. It is a lot harder to get a job - any job - if you don't have one.
5. The rest of the community also discriminates against the unemployed.

Back to top

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

IP Logged

Bam

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male

Re: Your budget wish list
Reply #61 - Apr 3^rd, 2014 at 8:15am

perceptions_now wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 11:01pm:

There are two sides to Budget outcomes -
1) Revenues
2) Expenditures

Both will need to be addressed!

Revenues will require the raising of Tax levels, in many areas & the tightening of many Tax loopholes, including those currently available to large corporations, the top end of income/asset rich & institutions such as the churches!

Expenditures will require the lowering of some payments, the deletion of others & the realization that a great many things must now be done differently, because everything has limitations and we are now at the cross-roads of history where some of those limitations will require us to take different approaches!

Agreed. Governments of both sides of politics have messed up the budget badly by reducing revenue and to a lesser extent through wasteful spending. After cutting revenue, the Coalition's solution isn't increasing revenue - they are silent on this - but just cuts.

Both sides of the equation need to be addressed, not just spending. The budget can be in surplus now if a government has the political fortitude to increase revenue. Closing loopholes is a very good place to start. We don't need to raise tax levels - bracket creep will see to that, as it did during the Howard years for low income earners who suffered a decade of rising taxes due to bracket creep.

Back to top

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

IP Logged

Grendel

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male

Re: Your budget wish list
Reply #62 - Apr 3^rd, 2014 at 8:52am

Bam wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 9:36pm:

Grendel wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 9:14pm:

I may be wrong but didn't Paul Keating try to abolish negative gearing and didn't it have worse effects on housing etc, than when it was left in tact?

Keating did abolish negative gearing but brought it back after the bleating of the housing lobby. Bringing it back was a mistake.

I don't recall it was a mistake... and I'd trust Keating's judgement over yours.

Back to top

IP Logged

Grendel

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male

Re: Your budget wish list
Reply #63 - Apr 3^rd, 2014 at 8:53am

crocodile wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 10:50pm:

Bam wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 9:36pm:

Grendel wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 9:14pm:

I may be wrong but didn't Paul Keating try to abolish negative gearing and didn't it have worse effects on housing etc, than when it was left in tact?

Keating did abolish negative gearing but brought it back after the bleating of the housing lobby. Bringing it back was a mistake.

Yes, Keating re-introduced it because the removal killed the rental market as people divested themselves of investment properties. There is no reason to remove it now. It seems a fair claim to offset costs against accrued income tax wise. The one that skews the market in a rather bad way ( unless you happen to be holding housing stock as an investment ) is the 50% concession on capital gains tax after 1 year.

Thank You....

Back to top

IP Logged

Bam

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male

Re: Your budget wish list
Reply #64 - Apr 3^rd, 2014 at 8:55am

Grendel wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2014 at 8:52am:

Bam wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 9:36pm:

Grendel wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 9:14pm:

I may be wrong but didn't Paul Keating try to abolish negative gearing and didn't it have worse effects on housing etc, than when it was left in tact?

Keating did abolish negative gearing but brought it back after the bleating of the housing lobby. Bringing it back was a mistake.

I don't recall it was a mistake... and I'd trust Keating's judgement over yours.

It was a mistake because it has no restrictions. What other country in the world has unrestricted negative gearing? NONE!

Back to top

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

IP Logged

Bam

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male

Re: Your budget wish list
Reply #65 - Apr 3^rd, 2014 at 9:11am

My wish list with negative gearing: abolish it. Replace it with a scheme where any losses on a rental property can be carried forward and applied against any future profits including the sale of the property. It must be a rental property, either currently let, advertised for rent at market rates, or being maintained while vacant.

The current system of negative gearing is subject to widespread abuse and that is why it has to go. Nowhere have I said that landlords shouldn't have tax deductions.

Back to top

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

IP Logged

Bam

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male

Re: Your budget wish list
Reply #66 - Apr 3^rd, 2014 at 9:17am

Grendel wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2014 at 8:52am:

Bam wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 9:36pm:

Grendel wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 9:14pm:

I may be wrong but didn't Paul Keating try to abolish negative gearing and didn't it have worse effects on housing etc, than when it was left in tact?

Keating did abolish negative gearing but brought it back after the bleating of the housing lobby. Bringing it back was a mistake.

I don't recall it was a mistake... and I'd trust Keating's judgement over yours.

I have every right to point out that Keating made a policy error here. If you don't like it that's your problem.

Abuse of negative gearing costs the budget $5 billion a year (The Age, 1 May 2013, p.5).

Back to top

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

IP Logged

bogarde73

Gold Member

Offline

Anti-Global & Contra Mundum

Posts: 18443
Gender: male

Re: Your budget wish list
Reply #67 - Apr 3^rd, 2014 at 9:17am

For Bam:

•Abolish concessional rate of capital gains tax.
•Abolish stamp duty on property transfers except for the cost of processing the property transfer.
•Introduce annual land tax for all properties except land under primary production, such that it raises the same
•amount of money overall as the abolished stamp duty.
•Reduce payroll tax.

Agree with you on the CGT, but stamp duty, land tax and payroll tax are state taxes and are not relevant to the coming budget.
Except that it would be a good idea to revisit GST so as to make any increase subject to eliminating these taxes. On the other hand, GST is regressive and therefore affects the poor more, while those state taxes I would think impact more on the better off, especially land tax and stamp duty.

Back to top

Know the enemies of a civil society by their public behaviour, by their fraudulent claim to be liberal-progressive, by their propensity to lie and, above all, by their attachment to authoritarianism.

IP Logged

Bam

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male

Re: Your budget wish list
Reply #68 - Apr 3^rd, 2014 at 9:55am

bogarde73 wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2014 at 9:17am:

For Bam:

•Abolish concessional rate of capital gains tax.
•Abolish stamp duty on property transfers except for the cost of processing the property transfer.
•Introduce annual land tax for all properties except land under primary production, such that it raises the same
•amount of money overall as the abolished stamp duty.
•Reduce payroll tax.

Agree with you on the CGT, but stamp duty, land tax and payroll tax are state taxes and are not relevant to the coming budget.

You are correct here. These are state taxes. The discussion did not specifically state that the budget measures had to be in the Federal budget.

Quote:

Except that it would be a good idea to revisit GST so as to make any increase subject to eliminating these taxes. On the other hand, GST is regressive and therefore affects the poor more, while those state taxes I would think impact more on the better off, especially land tax and stamp duty.

Let's include GST in this discussion in conjunction with these state taxes, and take a holistic approach. Here's what we can do.

Increase the GST to 15%. = More money for the states (especially Western Australia and Victoria, the two states that subsidise the others the most).
Reduce payroll tax or abolish it (depending on whether it is affordable). This is paid for by the GST revenue.
Raise the tax free threshold to $32,000. Next tier is 30% to $80,000. Needed to balance the increase in the GST.
Increase all income support payments. Needed to balance the increase in the GST.

Reduce stamp duty on real estate property transfers to a more reasonable $250 + 0.1% of the value of the property over $250,000. = saving of 95% or more.
Introduce land tax (primary production being exempt) at a rate that replaces the revenue lost as a result of the abolition of stamp duty. These two measures must be implemented together. Doing this broadens the tax base and provides increased stability for state budgets.

Back to top

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

IP Logged

bogarde73 Gold Member Offline Anti-Global & Contra Mundum Posts: 18443 Gender:	Re: Your budget wish list Reply #69 - Apr 3^rd, 2014 at 10:49am Was land tax already abolished? I can't remember but I thought it still existed. Raising the tax threshold doesn't help those people - pensioners, unemployed, casual workers - who don't pay tax, but who will suffer the increase in GST, especially if it's put on food and medical expenses.
Back to top	Know the enemies of a civil society by their public behaviour, by their fraudulent claim to be liberal-progressive, by their propensity to lie and, above all, by their attachment to authoritarianism. IP Logged

Bam

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male

Re: Your budget wish list
Reply #70 - Apr 3^rd, 2014 at 11:07am

bogarde73 wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2014 at 10:49am:

Was land tax already abolished? I can't remember but I thought it still existed.
Raising the tax threshold doesn't help those people - pensioners, unemployed, casual workers - who don't pay tax, but who will suffer the increase in GST, especially if it's put on food and medical expenses.

That's why I also mentioned raising income support payments.

The effect of increasing the tax free threshold is more subtle. If anyone is receiving income support and earning some employment income on the side, the extra income causes income support to be reduced by up to 60 cents for each dollar earned. When this is reducing income while 19 cents in the dollar tax is also paid, the net effect is an effective tax rate of 67.6 cents in the dollar (ignoring the Medicare levy) - leaving 32.4 cents in the dollar. If the tax free threshold is increased, it increases the available income from employment from 32.4 cents in the dollar to 40 cents in the dollar.

Back to top

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

IP Logged

Grendel

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male

Re: Your budget wish list
Reply #71 - Apr 3^rd, 2014 at 3:41pm

Bam wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2014 at 9:17am:

Grendel wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2014 at 8:52am:

Bam wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 9:36pm:

Grendel wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 9:14pm:

I may be wrong but didn't Paul Keating try to abolish negative gearing and didn't it have worse effects on housing etc, than when it was left in tact?

Keating did abolish negative gearing but brought it back after the bleating of the housing lobby. Bringing it back was a mistake.

I don't recall it was a mistake... and I'd trust Keating's judgement over yours.

I have every right to point out that Keating made a policy error here. If you don't like it that's your problem.

Never said you didn't. Doesn't mean your original idea here was right though and now you've change it. Roll Eyes

Abuse of negative gearing costs the budget $5 billion a year (The Age, 1 May 2013, p.5).

So you say... many people now don't negatively gear... it's lazy and unnecessary, but can advantage some for a while. Like I said fiddling with it, did have a big negative impact on the housing market.

Back to top

IP Logged

Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Your budget wish list Reply #72 - Apr 3^rd, 2014 at 3:44pm Quote: Increase the GST to 15%. = More money for the states (especially Western Australia and Victoria, the two states that subsidise the others the most). How soon we've forgotten NSW eh.
Back to top	IP Logged