Australian Politics Forum - Oh no, Another rat's nest of Usual Suspects

mantra

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Re: Oh no, Another rat's nest of Usual Suspects
Reply #15 - Apr 4^th, 2014 at 7:34pm

John Smith wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 6:18pm:

what a load of balony ... every time you open your mouth you prove just what a delluded racist you are

He's being honest - so no need for the personal insults. Maybe more of us would be able to express ourselves if we hadn't had political correctness drilled into us from an impressionable age. Reps from the Department of Immigration visited us at school in the early 70's warning us how we needed to treat the influx of visitors expected and the teachers continually reinforced it from then on. It's been drilled into some of us.

Personally I feel no animosity towards migrants, but it doesn't mean I embrace people from all nations. It's the way so many of us have been brought up with little or no exposure to other races. My parents weren't racist, but my brother is and many people that I know are. It makes no sense abusing someone for not having your point of view. You would get your point across better by being rational.

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Oh no, Another rat's nest of Usual Suspects Reply #16 - Apr 4^th, 2014 at 7:44pm John Smith wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 7:30pm: you could take your own advice instead of trying to blame all your lifes problems on immigrants ... Playing games of childish exaggeration is not something I'll be helping you with.
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John Smith

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Re: Oh no, Another rat's nest of Usual Suspects
Reply #17 - Apr 4^th, 2014 at 7:49pm

mantra wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 7:34pm:

He's being honest

He lied ...I've already told him that most of those people he listed are Aussies. You too can bury your head in the sand if you like and pretend that because their names aren't "english" sounding they must be imports, I'll stick to reality.

mantra wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 7:34pm:

Maybe more of us would be able to express ourselves if we hadn't had political correctness drilled into us from an impressionable age

there is a difference between commenting on once nationality, and being racist ... Herb is blatantly racist

mantra wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 7:34pm:

Personally I feel no animosity towards migrants, but it doesn't mean I embrace people from all nations.

Neither do I, there are in fact a couple of races that I, rightly or wrongly, have a particular dislike for .... I don't however blame all of societies problems on them. Whether I like the race or not, I prefer to deal with the person, not his/her nationality .

mantra wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 7:34pm:

It makes no sense abusing someone for not having your point of view.

Its a bit of a contradiction there ... you complain if I abuse Herb and yet applaud his racist attitude. I think his racist comments are just as abusive to anyone who's not a pom .. he continually target Italians, Greeks and Lebanese ... and yet you have no problem cheering him on.

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John Smith

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Re: Oh no, Another rat's nest of Usual Suspects
Reply #18 - Apr 4^th, 2014 at 7:50pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 7:44pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 7:30pm:

you could take your own advice instead of trying to blame all your lifes problems on immigrants ...

Playing games of childish exaggeration is not something I'll be helping you with.

but you're so good at it Herb!!!!

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Oh no, Another rat's nest of Usual Suspects
Reply #19 - Apr 4^th, 2014 at 7:55pm

mantra wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 7:34pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 6:18pm:

what a load of balony ... every time you open your mouth you prove just what a delluded racist you are

He's being honest - so no need for the personal insults. Maybe more of us would be able to express ourselves if we hadn't had political correctness drilled into us from an impressionable age. Reps from the Department of Immigration visited us at school in the early 70's warning us how we needed to treat the influx of visitors expected and the teachers continually reinforced it from then on. It's been drilled into some of us.

That's actually something I would have approved of ~ so long as it wasn't overdone. Children can be cruel and insensitive, with a lot of hurtful name-calling and abusive jibes.

mantra wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 7:34pm:

Personally I feel no animosity towards migrants, but it doesn't mean I embrace people from all nations. It's the way so many of us have been brought up with little or no exposure to other races. My parents weren't racist, but my brother is and many people that I know are. It makes no sense abusing someone for not having your point of view. You would get your point across better by being rational.

I'm actually not racist from the person to person point of view. Where I become 'racist' is when certain racial types become identified with way more crime than the rest of us (for subcultural reasons).

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Oh no, Another rat's nest of Usual Suspects
Reply #20 - Apr 4^th, 2014 at 8:02pm

John Smith wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 7:50pm:

but you're so good at it Herb!!!!

Is this a cry for help, John? All this emotional attention? Are you beginning a transference process with me?

John... I think we need to talk. Cool

transference
[-fur′əns]
Etymology: L, transferre
1 the shifting of symptoms from one part of the body to another, as occurs in conversion disorder.
2 (in psychiatry) an unconscious defense mechanism whereby feelings and attitudes originally associated with important people and events in one's early life are attributed to others in current interpersonal situations, including psychotherapy. The phenomenon is used as a tool in understanding the emotional problems of the patient and their origins. See also countertransference, parataxic distortion.

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John Smith

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Re: Oh no, Another rat's nest of Usual Suspects
Reply #21 - Apr 4^th, 2014 at 8:54pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 8:02pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 7:50pm:

but you're so good at it Herb!!!!

Is this a cry for help, John? All this emotional attention? Are you beginning a transference process with me?

John... I think we need to talk. Cool

transference
[-fur′əns]
Etymology: L, transferre
1 the shifting of symptoms from one part of the body to another, as occurs in conversion disorder.
2 (in psychiatry) an unconscious defense mechanism whereby feelings and attitudes originally associated with important people and events in one's early life are attributed to others in current interpersonal situations, including psychotherapy. The phenomenon is used as a tool in understanding the emotional problems of the patient and their origins. See also countertransference, parataxic distortion.

I know what you do need and it's not a talk .....

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mantra

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Re: Oh no, Another rat's nest of Usual Suspects
Reply #22 - Apr 5^th, 2014 at 6:40am

John Smith wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 7:49pm:

He lied ...I've already told him that most of those people he listed are Aussies. You too can bury your head in the sand if you like and pretend that because their names aren't "english" sounding they must be imports, I'll stick to reality.

It seemed more tongue in cheek to me. The problem is that the moment you make a joke or a slight exaggeration - you've got your enemies jumping up and down as though it was the crime of the century.

Quote:

there is a difference between commenting on once nationality, and being racist ... Herb is blatantly racist

Members are allowed to be racist here as long as they're polite about it. Muslims are also allowed to express their views too regardless of some members finding their opinions offensive.

Quote:

Neither do I, there are in fact a couple of races that I, rightly or wrongly, have a particular dislike for .... I don't however blame all of societies problems on them. Whether I like the race or not, I prefer to deal with the person, not his/her nationality .

That's your preference then.

Quote:

Its a bit of a contradiction there ... you complain if I abuse Herb and yet applaud his racist attitude. I think his racist comments are just as abusive to anyone who's not a pom .. he continually target Italians, Greeks and Lebanese ... and yet you have no problem cheering him on.

I'm not cheering him on - I'm supporting his right to free speech without being subject to personal insults.

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mantra

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Re: Oh no, Another rat's nest of Usual Suspects
Reply #23 - Apr 5^th, 2014 at 6:52am

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 7:55pm:

I'm actually not racist from the person to person point of view. Where I become 'racist' is when certain racial types become identified with way more crime than the rest of us (for subcultural reasons).

It does seem more than a coincidence when you find one group of people with a common heritage following a corrupt path, although there is a mix of Lebanese and Italian in that pack. They were blatant in their abuse of power.

We have to accept it because no-one is going to repeal this legislation now. Malcolm Fraser enforced the laws on multiculturalism, although it was banging at the door during the Whitlam government. Both parties are complicit.

Maybe they could have been more selective in hindsight, but it's impossible to say one lot of migrants is more worthy than another.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Oh no, Another rat's nest of Usual Suspects
Reply #24 - Apr 5^th, 2014 at 7:51am

mantra wrote on Apr 5^th, 2014 at 6:52am:

It does seem more than a coincidence when you find one group of people with a common heritage following a corrupt path,

It's all about criminal subcultures that can be clearly identified with certain nationalities and races. The Italians developed crime as an industry to a very fine art.

Typically ~ when the US began to make inroads into Italian crime ~ up jumped the Italian 'community leaders' shouting about 'racism!' and the 'persecution' of the Italian community by the US authorities.

And so you were left wondering where the Mafia left off, and the 'decent' Italian community began.

mantra wrote on Apr 5^th, 2014 at 6:52am:

although there is a mix of Lebanese and Italian in that pack. They were blatant in their abuse of power

It has to be more than a coincidence that these Mediterranean ethnics sought each other out for mutual benefit over some shonky shenanigans.

As for former state mining minister Ian Macdonald being part of this gangster clique ... his criminal credentials are writ large on his face for all to see. If he doesn't have a genetic predisposition for committing major white collar crime, then he sure has me fooled.

To be honest, if I had a face like that I'm pretty sure I'd be into some sort of criminal activity. A hitman for hire, or a personal bodyguard to the Godfather who runs the Griffith drugs industry.

mantra wrote on Apr 5^th, 2014 at 6:52am:

Maybe they could have been more selective in hindsight, but it's impossible to say one lot of migrants is more worthy than another.

I've said it before ~ the Greeks and Italians have been a huge benefit as migrants to Australia, and Australia is greatly improved by their having come here.

It's really a matter of having to put up with the bad as well as the good.

********

Genetic predisposition for shady shenanigans ...

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« Last Edit: Apr 5^th, 2014 at 8:07am by Lord Herbert »

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Oh no, Another rat's nest of Usual Suspects
Reply #25 - Apr 5^th, 2014 at 8:04am

mantra wrote on Apr 5^th, 2014 at 6:40am:

John Smith wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 7:49pm:

He lied ...I've already told him that most of those people he listed are Aussies. You too can bury your head in the sand if you like and pretend that because their names aren't "english" sounding they must be imports, I'll stick to reality.

It seemed more tongue in cheek to me. The problem is that the moment you make a joke or a slight exaggeration - you've got your enemies jumping up and down as though it was the crime of the century.

Hook, line, and sinker.

The problem for John is that he can't see my face, or my tone of voice, or my tongue (sometimes) stuck firmly in my cheek, and the chain in my hand as I slowly reel him in ... Grin

mantra wrote on Apr 5^th, 2014 at 6:40am:

I'm not cheering him on - I'm supporting his right to free speech without being subject to personal insults.

Thank you.

I would like to know ~ in specific terms, not wishy-washy generalisations ~ how I have been 'racist'.

This whole business of racial paranoia has reached such a fever-pitch of hysteria and absurdity that even our own elected government has taken steps to alter the laws that have supported this ultra-sensitivity.

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John Smith

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Re: Oh no, Another rat's nest of Usual Suspects
Reply #26 - Apr 5^th, 2014 at 8:18am

mantra wrote on Apr 5^th, 2014 at 6:40am:

It seemed more tongue in cheek to me. The problem is that the moment you make a joke or a slight exaggeration - you've got your enemies jumping up and down as though it was the crime of the century.

rubbish ... tounge in cheek my as s. Herbert never fails to show his racist attitude ... if you think thats tongue in cheek, go for it. Says more about you than me.

mantra wrote on Apr 5^th, 2014 at 6:40am:

Members are allowed to be racist here as long as they're polite about it.

And other members are allowed to call them racist when they do.

mantra wrote on Apr 5^th, 2014 at 6:40am:

That's your preference then.

no, thats called not being racist

mantra wrote on Apr 5^th, 2014 at 6:40am:

I'm not cheering him on - I'm supporting his right to free speech without being subject to personal insults.

yes you are cheering him on. You are in effect supporting his racism, not his right to free speech.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75162 Gender:	Re: Oh no, Another rat's nest of Usual Suspects Reply #27 - Apr 5^th, 2014 at 8:19am Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 5^th, 2014 at 7:51am: It's all about criminal subcultures that can be clearly identified with certain nationalities and races you mean like all those poms on the first fleet?
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75162 Gender:	Re: Oh no, Another rat's nest of Usual Suspects Reply #28 - Apr 5^th, 2014 at 8:20am Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 5^th, 2014 at 8:04am: Hook, line, and sinker.The problem for John is that he can't see my face, or my tone of voice, or my tongue (sometimes) stuck firmly in my cheek, and the chain in my hand as I slowly reel him in the problem is that you don't actually see your racsim.
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mantra

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Re: Oh no, Another rat's nest of Usual Suspects
Reply #29 - Apr 5^th, 2014 at 8:46am

John Smith wrote on Apr 5^th, 2014 at 8:18am:

yes you are cheering him on. You are in effect supporting his racism, not his right to free speech.

Herbert's attitude is similar to the attitudes of most of mainstream Australia who were born prior to Generation X. You hear people with accents ringing up talk back on the radio complaining about all these "new Australians". It's accepted that a lot of people don't like the influx of newcomers that are constantly arriving on our shores.

There is nothing wrong with grouping them. He's not persecuting individuals which is what some of us tend to do. How many times have we seen a slack family of Aussies and thought they were white trash yet one or two members of that family might be very decent people.

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