Australian Politics Forum - Will Australians Have To Pay More Tax.

Bam

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Re: Will Australians Have To Pay More Tax.
Reply #30 - Apr 6^th, 2014 at 10:55am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 6^th, 2014 at 7:40am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 12:14pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 9:10am:

Not necessarily - you can go with a reduction in services. Seriously, how do you expect to have services if taxes aren't collected to pay for them? Roll Eyes

Well - if the government owned the services they would pay for themselves . . . . .

SOB

Not necessarily true. A government-run service generally costs more than the same service provided by the private sector. This is basically because of the desire to reduce wasteful spending as far as possible in the private sector so as to increase profits, while a government-run service has no such needs and therefore little motivation to reduce wasteful spending or find more cost-effective ways of delivering services.

Not necessarily true. Privatisation often ends up costing more. Too often the insatiable greed of the profit motive inevitably sees the greedy private owners increase prices by adding a hidden "profit tax". This is especially prevalent when privatisation is not accompanied by competition.

You only have to look at how sharply the price of electricity has risen in the past ten years to see the truth of this.

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perceptions_now

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Re: Will Australians Have To Pay More Tax.
Reply #31 - Apr 6^th, 2014 at 11:18am

There is only one possible answer and that is YES!

The major reasons being -
1) Demographics
in 1950 the worker to no worker ratio was around 8/1, But by 2050 that ratio will be around 2/1.
2) There has been a very noticeable lack of appropriate action by Politicians to cope with our changing Demographics.

So, with a massive turn around in the worker to non worker ratio, IT IS OBVIOUS THAT TAXES WILL INCREASE FOR THOSE REMAINING WORKERS!

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miketrees

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Re: Will Australians Have To Pay More Tax.
Reply #32 - Apr 6^th, 2014 at 11:25am

So, with a massive turn around in the worker to non worker ratio, IT IS OBVIOUS THAT TAXES WILL INCREASE FOR THOSE REMAINING WORKERS!

Thank you PN.

I get quite depressed reading this forum because most people here are just bigoted to the left or the right and fail to see any big pictures.
Well most of them are just stupid.
Most depressing is that these are people that vote.

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Phemanderac

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Re: Will Australians Have To Pay More Tax.
Reply #33 - Apr 6^th, 2014 at 11:28am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 9:10am:

Not necessarily - you can go with a reduction in services. Seriously, how do you expect to have services if taxes aren't collected to pay for them? Roll Eyes

That might be a fair point except for the obvious privatisation push. What are extra taxes paying for again if "services' have been privatised...?

Awks I know...

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perceptions_now

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Re: Will Australians Have To Pay More Tax.
Reply #34 - Apr 6^th, 2014 at 11:29am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 6^th, 2014 at 7:43am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 6^th, 2014 at 7:29am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 6^th, 2014 at 7:10am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 6^th, 2014 at 6:53am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 9:10am:

Not necessarily - you can go with a reduction in services. Seriously, how do you expect to have services if taxes aren't collected to pay for them? Roll Eyes

What about a lowering the costs for services?

ie
paying public servants less money.

Reduce all public servant wages by 10% to 25% -
whatever is required to reduce costs.

The problem with our society is that the people at the coal face actually
making money in real businesses are the only ones paying real taxes -
all the others are like parasites sucking their blood.

Here we go again. The majority of public servants earn less money than anyone else. Teachers, cops, council workers, road workers, nurses, etc . . . .

SOB

No they don't - public servants are on a good wicket.

Private industry - the people actually making the money -
are paid less & less due to unemployment -
it's an employers market.

Public servants are roaring ahead of the private sector.
If a public servant lost their job they would have to accept far less money from private industry.

The real problem is the power of public service unions.
The Govt. doesn't want to take them on -
because Tony Abbott now & Kevin Rudd/ Gillard in the past are all gutless.

Imagine if Abbott told public servants that they would all have to accept a 10% pay cut to save his budget?

There would be wide spread strikes & chaos.

Public servants are paid out of borrowed money.

Certainly the case under Labor over the previous six years but not the case under Howard once he paid off Keatings' $96bn debt.

That is simple party Politics!

The facts are -
1) Labor introduced the Super Guarantee, which did make an attempt to increase us catering for our own Retirement.
2) The Liberals did make substantial inroads into Government Debt.

The period from the early 1980's to around 2006, saw the best Economic conditions in the modern Economic era and the best time during that period was from around 1996-2006 and this is again mainly due to Demographics.

But, neither Labor, nor Liberal went anywhere near far enough to properly cater for what was or should have been obvious, even as far back as the 70's or 80's!

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Phemanderac

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Re: Will Australians Have To Pay More Tax.
Reply #35 - Apr 6^th, 2014 at 11:32am

Further and with regard to the "private sector" there is no definitive evidence that;

a) Privatisation is consistently more efficient or for that matter keeps costs down.

b) That all Government services are inefficient and not cost effective.

Bottom line in the privatisation push is that there is most definitely no one size fits all solution.

Sadly neither Government nor the private sector are too concerned with honesty or integrity to actually be truthful about this.

Well run Public Assets are an effective revenue raiser for the Government, thus, making the need for increased taxes no so urgent. Further, the more that becomes privatised, the less necessary Government is.

Why would tax increases be appropriate in this kind of socio economic climate?

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..

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Torpedo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 867 Sydney Gender:	Re: Will Australians Have To Pay More Tax. Reply #36 - Apr 6^th, 2014 at 11:54am Swagman wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 1:56pm: Define 'poor' Borg? small business owner - very poor person, much poorer than unemployed
Back to top	If GST rises by 5%, then your income must also rise by 5%. Which means you will either become unemployed or underpaid. Choose wisely IP Logged

miketrees Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6490 Gender:	Re: Will Australians Have To Pay More Tax. Reply #37 - Apr 6^th, 2014 at 11:57am small business owner - very poor person, much poorer than unemployed But you do get that warm fuzzy feeling that you have contributed to some one elses retirement before you have looked after your own.
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Torpedo

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Re: Will Australians Have To Pay More Tax.
Reply #38 - Apr 6^th, 2014 at 12:12pm

miketrees wrote on Apr 6^th, 2014 at 11:57am:

small business owner - very poor person, much poorer than unemployed

But you do get that warm fuzzy feeling that you have contributed to some one elses retirement before you have looked after your own.

no, you have this screechy feeling in your back, always worrying about its durability and longevity. The last thing you think about is someone else's back, you just don't have that precious spare time... if you know what I am talking about...
today all I am thinking about is about tomorrow, what type of customers will present what problems, will employee take another sick leave? Will my landlord raise the rent? Will petrol shoot up the roof? What are my budgeted costs, can I afford another increase in GST? Can I afford to lose another customer due to competition? Will my employees ask for a rise in their wages because of the increase? Will I be downsizing and working extra 10 hours a week?
Do I really have time to worry about anything else?

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If GST rises by 5%, then your income must also rise by 5%. Which means you will either become unemployed or underpaid. Choose wisely

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 106480 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Will Australians Have To Pay More Tax. Reply #39 - Apr 6^th, 2014 at 12:15pm Slash public service wages by at least 10% rather than raise taxes.
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Will Australians Have To Pay More Tax.
Reply #40 - Apr 6^th, 2014 at 12:30pm

Bam wrote on Apr 6^th, 2014 at 10:55am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 6^th, 2014 at 7:40am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 12:14pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 4^th, 2014 at 9:10am:

Not necessarily - you can go with a reduction in services. Seriously, how do you expect to have services if taxes aren't collected to pay for them? Roll Eyes

Well - if the government owned the services they would pay for themselves . . . . .

SOB

Not necessarily true. A government-run service generally costs more than the same service provided by the private sector. This is basically because of the desire to reduce wasteful spending as far as possible in the private sector so as to increase profits, while a government-run service has no such needs and therefore little motivation to reduce wasteful spending or find more cost-effective ways of delivering services.

Not necessarily true. Privatisation often ends up costing more. Too often the insatiable greed of the profit motive inevitably sees the greedy private owners increase prices by adding a hidden "profit tax". This is especially prevalent when privatisation is not accompanied by competition.

You only have to look at how sharply the price of electricity has risen in the past ten years to see the truth of this.

Electricity has risen so much because it was privatised

SOB

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Whaaaaaah!
I'm a
Moron!

- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Will Australians Have To Pay More Tax.
Reply #41 - Apr 6^th, 2014 at 12:44pm

Of course - we all know that once a government divests itself, by Cheesy

'privatisation', of the infrastructure that not only provides employment, but a standard of income for that government itself - it is left with no other option to continue is fanciful forays into fictitious fallacies of policy than to take more directly from the people.

They certainly won't be cutting out any of their personal lovefest policies and ideas, will they?

How else are they going to raise the money to feed us their endless lines? Through unlimited borrowing.....??? Grin

Of COURSE they're going to suck you dry -but remember - it is ONLY in the cycle of taxation, so whatever they put up as the 'mouthpiece' or 'front person' for their tax jihad - it is only a mask to cover the whole gamut of REAL taxing that goes on behind the scenes.

As long as they can make us believe that 'income tax' and 'GST' are the primary issues of taxation - and not the endless gamut of taxes inherent in their style of government - they can con us for all it's worth.

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was to make the world believe he didn't exist.

BTW:- Every time your GST goes up - so do, indirectly, the other taxes etc that accrue to every purchase you make.

That is the devil in the GST - the one they convinced us didn't exist. That is why I fairly label GST inflationary and progressive - it pervades every avenue of economic activity and thus returns to government, through sneaky back doors of adding to other tax burdens - far more than 10% (or whatever). That's 10% on every part of a transaction - every time.

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« Last Edit: Apr 6^th, 2014 at 12:54pm by Grappler Deep State Feller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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