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Even UN experts admit Abbott has stoppedthe boats! (Read 3479 times)
rabbitoh08
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Re: Even UN experts admit Abbott has stoppedthe boats!
Reply #15 - Apr 5th, 2014 at 4:47pm
 
Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 4th, 2014 at 2:47pm:
A UNITED Nations expert on people smuggling and human trafficking says Canberra's tough policy on dealing with asylum seekers arriving by boat has successfully destroyed the current migrant smuggling model into Australia. 
 
Sebastian Baumeister, from the UN's Office on Drugs and Crime, says the government has halted the boats heading to Australia, but questions remain over the whereabouts of thousands of asylum seekers stranded in Asia.

"With the changes in Australian migration asylum policies, there's now been a significant drop of arrivals by boat to Australia," Mr Baumeister told AAP.

On Saturday, Prime Minister Tony Abbott declared no asylum-seeker boats had arrived in Australia for 100 days.

Mr Abbott dismissed those who had questioned the government's ability to prevent asylum-seeker boats reaching Australia, but he did not disclose the numbers of vessels turned back under Operation Sovereign Borders.

In January, Australia's Department of Immigration and Border Protection said throughout 2013, there were 300 suspected illegal entry vessels with 20,587 asylum seekers on board.

Mr Baumeister said thousands remain in Asia waiting for a fresh opportunity to travel to Australia.

"I'm pretty sure that there must be still in this region, a lot of people from southwest Asia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran and Iraq who were on their way to Australia," he said.

"Usually people would come through Thailand or from Thailand to Malaysia, and then to Indonesia. So they are somewhere here in Southeast Asia - Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia. So what happened to them? That's one question, but I cannot give you an answer."

He said the government's policy, while controversial, had succeeded.

"In this regard, the Australians I think quite successfully destroyed the migrant smuggling model.

"But I would assume there must be still significant numbers of people who are there already on the move, who are somewhere stranded," he said.

"So that's why I tend to believe that people still - migrants from southwest Asia - I would think there are still significant numbers in Indonesia, Malaysia and also perhaps Thailand.

And the question remains where these stranded asylum seekers will travel to next.

"This was a significant change on this route (to Australia). On this route, this was very well organised, the migrant smugglers had
specialised basically on persons who had good prospects of being granted asylum
," he said.

"They had specialised on asylum seekers to whom they could sell this basically," Baumeister said. "So this was a dramatic change and it remains to be seen what happens next," he said.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/breaking-news/asylum-seekers-stranded-by-a...

On this route, this was very well organised, the migrant smugglers had specialised basically on persons who had good prospects of being granted asylum," he said.


So no - not "country shoppers" - as so often parroted by the racists who have supported the Liberals/Labour policies.  Persons who had good prospects of being granted asylum.  ie. Actual refugees.

And what does Australia do? Tow them back to a country that is not signatory to the UN convention - or dump them in a gulag.

And it seems that Mr Baumeister is suffering from the same lack of information we all are.  If the "boats have stopped" - why do orange lifeboats full of people keep turning up in Indonesia?  Why are our Navy making unauthorised entries into Indonesian waters?

Sound to me like the boats are still coming.  But the racists are not interested in this.  As long as no brown people land in Australia they are happy.  Despite the fact that the vast majority of these people are genuine refugees.  People we have a legal obligation to offer asylum to.
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« Last Edit: Apr 5th, 2014 at 5:08pm by rabbitoh08 »  
 
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philperth2010
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Re: Even UN experts admit Abbott has stoppedthe boats!
Reply #16 - Apr 5th, 2014 at 4:56pm
 
buzzanddidj wrote on Apr 5th, 2014 at 2:32pm:
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Apr 5th, 2014 at 1:10pm:
Some say the Wet Season has a lot to do with it, and the government hasn't stopped anything - merely hijacked them on the high seas and diverted them to Manic Island... a land shrouded in mystery where scarcely a word escapes ab out the conditions in which they are held...

Sounds like a 're-settlement' camp in Poland or somewhere circa 1941-45.... if some other country imposed the same conditions would we not be up in arms about this Fascist regime?

THIS.... IS.... A... DISGRACE!






They needed Canada’s help and
Canada said no



http://thechronicleherald.ca/sites/default/files/imagecache/ch_article_main_imag...



It was 1939 and 907 Jewish refugees aboard the German transatlantic liner St. Louis were seeking
sanctuary from Nazi Germany.


Canada refused to take them in and the ship sailed back to Europe, where
254 would later die in concentration camps
.



http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1174272-canada-turned-away-jewish-refuge...
i


America also refused to take them Buzz.....Something they are keen to forget!!!

Smiley Smiley Smiley

http://www.ushmm.org/information/exhibitions/online-features/special-focus/voyag...
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chicken_lipsforme
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Re: Even UN experts admit Abbott has stoppedthe boats!
Reply #17 - Apr 5th, 2014 at 4:56pm
 
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Apr 5th, 2014 at 1:10pm:
Some say the Wet Season has a lot to do with it, and the government hasn't stopped anything - merely hijacked them on the high seas and diverted them to Manic Island... a land shrouded in mystery where scarcely a word escapes ab out the conditions in which they are held...

Sounds like a 're-settlement' camp in Poland or somewhere circa 1941-45.... if some other country imposed the same conditions would we not be up in arms about this Fascist regime?

THIS.... IS.... A... DISGRACE!


Some would say it is the wet season which stopped the boats, but only those who have never lived in the tropics however would have said something as silly as that.
For the record, the last two wet seasons have been dud rubbers and well below the average in terms of rainfall, cyclone activity and severity, in which case the boats stopped long before the season even started anyway.
The policy which is Operation Sovereign Borders took away the smugglers selling product from the day of implementation, and ensured that any that arrive via illegal means would never ever be given the opportunity to resettle in Australia.
And turning back the boats or sending them to PNG ensures that these country shoppers are aware they are not welcome to migrate to this country in this manner.
The Coalitions border protection policy is once again a winner, and is responsible for the saving of countless lives.
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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
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'jalted te
Reply #18 - Apr 5th, 2014 at 5:00pm
 
That journalist is being dishonest.  This is what the journalist claimed:

"Sebastian Baumeister, from the UN's Office on Drugs and Crime, says the government has halted the boats heading to Australia, but questions remain over the whereabouts of thousands of asylum seekers stranded in Asia."

See those words ~ 'halted the boats heading to Australia.'

But this is what the UN actually person said:

"With the changes in Australian migration asylum policies, there's now been a significant drop of arrivals by boat to Australia," Mr Baumeister told AAP.

See those words:

"....drop of arrivals by boat to Australia."

There is a substantial substantive difference between the two.

So, here we have more naked dishonesty, not by AP this time, but by a published journalist.

Bloody rubbish.
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philperth2010
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Re: Even UN experts admit Abbott has stoppedthe boats!
Reply #19 - Apr 5th, 2014 at 5:01pm
 
Australia has nothing to be proud of with its treatment of refugees.....In the future we will look back and wonder why we let this happen in what is a democratic nation....Democracy has its price and allowing everyone the right to be free is the basis of any true democratic State!!!

Angry Angry Angry
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philperth2010
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Re: Even UN experts admit Abbott has stoppedthe boats!
Reply #20 - Apr 5th, 2014 at 5:05pm
 
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 5th, 2014 at 4:56pm:
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Apr 5th, 2014 at 1:10pm:
Some say the Wet Season has a lot to do with it, and the government hasn't stopped anything - merely hijacked them on the high seas and diverted them to Manic Island... a land shrouded in mystery where scarcely a word escapes ab out the conditions in which they are held...

Sounds like a 're-settlement' camp in Poland or somewhere circa 1941-45.... if some other country imposed the same conditions would we not be up in arms about this Fascist regime?

THIS.... IS.... A... DISGRACE!


Some would say it is the wet season which stopped the boats, but only those who have never lived in the tropics however would have said something as silly as that.
For the record, the last two wet seasons have been dud rubbers and well below the average in terms of rainfall, cyclone activity and severity, in which case the boats stopped long before the season even started anyway.
The policy which is Operation Sovereign Borders took away the smugglers selling product from the day of implementation, and ensured that any that arrive via illegal means would never ever be given the opportunity to resettle in Australia.
And turning back the boats or sending them to PNG ensures that these country shoppers are aware they are not welcome to migrate to this country in this manner.
The Coalitions border protection policy is once again a winner, and is responsible for the saving of countless lives.


You could use the same pathetic argument when refugees cross a desert or mountains putting their lives at risk.....Should they be sent back as well.....It is their life to risk and Australia said we would accept them when we ratified the refugee convention.....The argument about saving lives is just convenient to excuse the disgusting treatment of innocent people who have committed no crime???

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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chicken_lipsforme
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Re: Even UN experts admit Abbott has stoppedthe boats!
Reply #21 - Apr 5th, 2014 at 5:29pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Apr 5th, 2014 at 5:05pm:
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Apr 5th, 2014 at 4:56pm:
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Apr 5th, 2014 at 1:10pm:
Some say the Wet Season has a lot to do with it, and the government hasn't stopped anything - merely hijacked them on the high seas and diverted them to Manic Island... a land shrouded in mystery where scarcely a word escapes ab out the conditions in which they are held...

Sounds like a 're-settlement' camp in Poland or somewhere circa 1941-45.... if some other country imposed the same conditions would we not be up in arms about this Fascist regime?

THIS.... IS.... A... DISGRACE!


Some would say it is the wet season which stopped the boats, but only those who have never lived in the tropics however would have said something as silly as that.
For the record, the last two wet seasons have been dud rubbers and well below the average in terms of rainfall, cyclone activity and severity, in which case the boats stopped long before the season even started anyway.
The policy which is Operation Sovereign Borders took away the smugglers selling product from the day of implementation, and ensured that any that arrive via illegal means would never ever be given the opportunity to resettle in Australia.
And turning back the boats or sending them to PNG ensures that these country shoppers are aware they are not welcome to migrate to this country in this manner.
The Coalitions border protection policy is once again a winner, and is responsible for the saving of countless lives.


You could use the same pathetic argument when refugees cross a desert or mountains putting their lives at risk.....Should they be sent back as well.....It is their life to risk and Australia said we would accept them when we ratified the refugee convention.....The argument about saving lives is just convenient to excuse the disgusting treatment of innocent people who have committed no crime???

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


But they are not crossing a desert or mountains except on a 767 flight are they, so there are actually none to be sent back whatsoever and never will be.
Sorry you don't like the Coalition's winning policy in saving lives.
And considering these people are totally and complete strangers, it's a stretch to suggest none have ever committed any crime in their lives.
That's more in the realm of wishful thinking.
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"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
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Mandy_oz
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Re: Even UN experts admit Abbott has stoppedthe boats!
Reply #22 - Apr 5th, 2014 at 6:35pm
 
It was an election promise and how many of them get fulfilled?
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Even UN experts admit Abbott has stoppedthe boats!
Reply #23 - Apr 5th, 2014 at 7:00pm
 
The plan - so I believe - was always to stop them arriving in Australia.

The push factors in those parts of the world are well beyond the remit of the Australian PM - but the pull factors are not.

You stop Australia being easy to get to, you stop the benefits system making it less attractive and you actively push them somewhere else.
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Re: Even UN experts admit Abbott has stoppedthe boats!
Reply #24 - Apr 5th, 2014 at 7:02pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 5th, 2014 at 7:00pm:
The plan - so I believe - was always to stop them arriving in Australia.

The push factors in those parts of the world are well beyond the remit of the Australian PM - but the pull factors are not.

You stop Australia being easy to get to, you stop the benefits system making it less attractive and you actively push them somewhere else.


Yeas, it is now clear that was the hidden Agenda, cloaked behind claimed concern about people/children drowning at sea attempting to come here.
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Re: Even UN experts admit Abbott has stoppedthe boats!
Reply #25 - Apr 5th, 2014 at 7:04pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 5th, 2014 at 7:00pm:
The plan - so I believe - was always to stop them arriving in Australia.

The push factors in those parts of the world are well beyond the remit of the Australian PM - but the pull factors are not.

You stop Australia being easy to get to, you stop the benefits system making it less attractive and you actively push them somewhere else.


I am a little confused.  Are there people trying to suggest that the boats haven't stopped?  I  thought that was indisputable?
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Re: Even UN experts admit Abbott has stoppedthe boats!
Reply #26 - Apr 5th, 2014 at 7:10pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 5th, 2014 at 7:02pm:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 5th, 2014 at 7:00pm:
The plan - so I believe - was always to stop them arriving in Australia.

The push factors in those parts of the world are well beyond the remit of the Australian PM - but the pull factors are not.

You stop Australia being easy to get to, you stop the benefits system making it less attractive and you actively push them somewhere else.


Yeas, it is now clear that was the hidden Agenda, cloaked behind claimed concern about people/children drowning at sea attempting to come here.


I would have thought it was clear from the outset his plan was to stop the boats arriving to Australia.
I mean that's all people care about - why overpromise? He isn't going to fix the issue outside of his remit is it?
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Re: Even UN experts admit Abbott has stoppedthe boats!
Reply #27 - Apr 5th, 2014 at 7:11pm
 
Mandy_oz wrote on Apr 5th, 2014 at 7:04pm:
I am a little confused.  Are there people trying to suggest that the boats haven't stopped?  I  thought that was indisputable?


They have stopped arriving in Australia.  Boats are still set out, and people are still being smuggled.

Oh, and we are still not meeting our own obligations regarding our responsibility to refugees as per the UN refugee convention we have signed, thanks to both the Rudd and Abbott government.
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Re: Even UN experts admit Abbott has stoppedthe boats!
Reply #28 - Apr 5th, 2014 at 7:15pm
 
Stratos wrote on Apr 5th, 2014 at 7:11pm:
Mandy_oz wrote on Apr 5th, 2014 at 7:04pm:
I am a little confused.  Are there people trying to suggest that the boats haven't stopped?  I  thought that was indisputable?


They have stopped arriving in Australia.  Boats are still set out, and people are still being smuggled.

Oh, and we are still not meeting our own obligations regarding our responsibility to refugees as per the UN refugee convention we have signed, thanks to both the Rudd and Abbott government.


They have stopped arriving in Australia. That's his remit. That's all we care about.

As regards the UN Convention - its an un-policed set of articles of nothing.
France - one of the 5 most important countries in the world - routinely ignores it and has paid no attention to it in several decades.
Have a look at their bulldozing of the Sangatte Refugee camp in Calais.

I wouldn't worry about the UN Convention most other countries don't.

Britain has put its migration borders on the French soil at the Channel Tunnel so we can refuse asylum applications before they arrive in the UK.

It seems Aussies are a bit too "play by the rules" all the time.
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Re: Even UN experts admit Abbott has stoppedthe boats!
Reply #29 - Apr 5th, 2014 at 7:21pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 5th, 2014 at 7:10pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 5th, 2014 at 7:02pm:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 5th, 2014 at 7:00pm:
The plan - so I believe - was always to stop them arriving in Australia.

The push factors in those parts of the world are well beyond the remit of the Australian PM - but the pull factors are not.

You stop Australia being easy to get to, you stop the benefits system making it less attractive and you actively push them somewhere else.


Yeas, it is now clear that was the hidden Agenda, cloaked behind claimed concern about people/children drowning at sea attempting to come here.


I would have thought it was clear from the outset his plan was to stop the boats arriving to Australia.
I mean that's all people care about - why overpromise? He isn't going to fix the issue outside of his remit is it?


No, it was not.  The sales pitch, mantraed over and over and over, was not to stop people getting here by boat, it was to stop people drowning.

Andrei......just accept that as fact.  There is no need for me to provide a link, as there is no-one here in Australia who would disagree with what I have said.

Quote:
It seems Aussies are a bit too "play by the rules" all the time.


Yeas, we are a weird mob expecting Rules to be abided by.  Shame on us for that.
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