Australian Politics Forum - Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority

freediver

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Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Reply #60 - Apr 22^nd, 2014 at 9:56pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2014 at 9:53pm:

Do you think my religion "compels" me to hate jews because of that hadith FD?

I'm so glad I have FD here telling me what are and what are not my own personal beliefs.

Let's start with what you think of it, before we get into what I think about what you think about what I think about it.

Is it anti-semitic?

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority Reply #61 - Apr 22^nd, 2014 at 10:07pm Or a better question - is it authentic?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49224 At my desk.	Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority Reply #62 - Apr 22^nd, 2014 at 10:10pm Do you think it is a fake?
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority Reply #63 - Apr 22^nd, 2014 at 10:21pm I don't know. What I do know though is that my religion does not compel me to be anti-semitic.
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Karnal Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 96187 Gender:	Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority Reply #64 - Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 1:07am Answer the question!
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freediver

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Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Reply #65 - Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 6:44pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2014 at 10:21pm:

I don't know.

What I do know though is that my religion does not compel me to be anti-semitic.

If you don't know whether these statements are part of your religion, how can you be so sure about Islam's anti-semitism?

Is this going to be like the time you insisted that Muhammed did not have sex with his own sex slaves?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Reply #66 - Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 7:31pm

freediver wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 6:44pm:

If you don't know whether these statements are part of your religion

Thats right FD. Ahadeeth are probably the subject of the most debate within islam. Apart from a very small "core" of ahadeeth that are universally agreed to be authentic, everything else is disputed. This hadeeth falls into the latter category.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Reply #67 - Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 7:36pm

Sounds convenient. Even wishy washy.

Is it common to get so many of the early Muslims reporting the same thing?

http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=41&translator=2&number=6980

6980

Thaur b. Zaid has narrated this hadith with the same chain of transmitters.

6981

Ibn 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You will fight against the Jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me) ; kill him.

6982

Ubaidullah has reported this hadith with this chain of transmitters (and the Words are):" There is a Jew behind me."

6983

Abdullah b. 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You and the Jews would fight against one another until a stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; come and kill him.

6984

Abdullah b. 'Umar reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: The Jews will fight against you and you will gain victory over them until the stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; kill him.

6985

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

6986

Jabir b. Samura reported: I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Before the Last Hour there would be many liars, and there is an addition in the badith transmitted on the authority of Abu Ahwas of these words:" I said to him: Did you hear it from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)? He said: Yes."

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Adamant Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1892 Brisbane	Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority Reply #68 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 8:08pm greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 7^th, 2014 at 8:18am: Pickering Greg with his Pecker
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austranger

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Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Reply #69 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 9:23pm

I don't lay claim to any great knowledge or wisdom on Islam so I'd like to ask a question, or two.
Wahhabi.
I have heard that under an arrangement with the House of Saud the clerics of this sect in Saudi Arabia are given a significant percentage of the oil revenue, is this true?
As a part of that information is the claim that they use this money to found and support Islamic schools, madrashas(?), across the world, preaching their extreme form of Islam, is that true?
If these things are true then it would seem we have them to thank for the extremism and terrorism we are seeing world-wide, is that a reasonable conclusion?
I ask because I DON'T know, but would like to.
An apparently logical follow-on from these things, if true, would be that the West needs to confront these problems at source, Saudi Arabia, and yet no-one even seems to be talking about that?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Reply #70 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 10:36pm

austranger wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 9:23pm:

I don't lay claim to any great knowledge or wisdom on Islam so I'd like to ask a question, or two.
Wahhabi.
I have heard that under an arrangement with the House of Saud the clerics of this sect in Saudi Arabia are given a significant percentage of the oil revenue, is this true?
As a part of that information is the claim that they use this money to found and support Islamic schools, madrashas(?), across the world, preaching their extreme form of Islam, is that true?
If these things are true then it would seem we have them to thank for the extremism and terrorism we are seeing world-wide, is that a reasonable conclusion?
I ask because I DON'T know, but would like to.
An apparently logical follow-on from these things, if true, would be that the West needs to confront these problems at source, Saudi Arabia, and yet no-one even seems to be talking about that?

Hi austranger - and thanks for the questions which are extremely pertinent.

In my opinion - yes much of the world's islamic terrorism stems from wahabist ideology that comes from Saudi Arabia. Most alarmingly in recent years has been the very deliberate exporting of terrorists by House Saud into Syria - done as part of a proxy war against Iran. These terrorists have now spread into Iraq, where they currently control large swathes of the sunni north. We can only guess at the threat to the west these Saudi exports will be in coming years.

As to the crux of your point - yes absolutely, the west should be confronting this threat at its source - ie Saudi Arabia. Currently though, the US apologises for Saudi atrocities at every step of the way.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Reply #71 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 10:44pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 10:36pm:

As to the crux of your point - yes absolutely, the west should be confronting this threat at its source - ie Saudi Arabia. Currently though, the US apologises for Saudi atrocities at every step of the way.

Why don't the 'vast majority of law-abiding, peaceful Muslims' confront it? Are they scared/opportunistic?
I think so.

Why is it up to the West to sort out Islam's internal mess?

If it's a problem, face it, confront it, fix it.

Don't make your cowardice/apathy/opportunism the West's problem.

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austranger

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Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Reply #72 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 10:54pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 10:36pm:

austranger wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 9:23pm:

I don't lay claim to any great knowledge or wisdom on Islam so I'd like to ask a question, or two.
Wahhabi.
I have heard that under an arrangement with the House of Saud the clerics of this sect in Saudi Arabia are given a significant percentage of the oil revenue, is this true?
As a part of that information is the claim that they use this money to found and support Islamic schools, madrashas(?), across the world, preaching their extreme form of Islam, is that true?
If these things are true then it would seem we have them to thank for the extremism and terrorism we are seeing world-wide, is that a reasonable conclusion?
I ask because I DON'T know, but would like to.
An apparently logical follow-on from these things, if true, would be that the West needs to confront these problems at source, Saudi Arabia, and yet no-one even seems to be talking about that?

Hi austranger - and thanks for the questions which are extremely pertinent.

In my opinion - yes much of the world's islamic terrorism stems from wahabist ideology that comes from Saudi Arabia. Most alarmingly in recent years has been the very deliberate exporting of terrorists by House Saud into Syria - done as part of a proxy war against Iran. These terrorists have now spread into Iraq, where they currently control large swathes of the sunni north. We can only guess at the threat to the west these Saudi exports will be in coming years.

As to the crux of your point - yes absolutely, the west should be confronting this threat at its source - ie Saudi Arabia. Currently though, the US apologises for Saudi atrocities at every step of the way.

It seems to me that it's also the case that the West's reaction of judging ALL Muslims(?) by the extremists activities has lead to a radicalisation of both the Sunni's and Shiítes as well, or perhaps their Imams are trying to compete with the Wahhabi's for the attention of Islamic Youth, or a bit of both perhaps?
Do you know how much effect this is having here in Oz, if any?
Also, I think an Imam in Iran(?) once called the USA the Great Whore, or words to that effect, and offhand I'd say that was a pretty fair description, especially considering their dealings with Saudi Arabia?

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Yadda

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Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Reply #73 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 11:05pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 10:36pm:

As to the crux of your point - yes absolutely, the west should be confronting this threat at its source - ie Saudi Arabia.

Currently though, the US apologises for Saudi atrocities at every step of the way.

Yes, the Western 'hemisphere' should be seen to be interfering in Saudi Arabia internal politics, ....because real moslems, you know, the moderate tolerant, peaceful, moslems, would all be soooooo, soooooo, grateful to us infidels.

NOT.

ISLAM [moslems] should be left to fester 'in its own juices', imo.

Any aid we [the Western 'hemisphere' nations] could provide to moslem political groups or regimes, can only draw us into conflicts which we DO want to avoid, and which we should be trying to avoid!

Getting our [non-ISLAMIC] culture involved, entangled, within the machinations of ISLAMIC global politics can only be destructive to our own interests - interests which have no alignment with the interests of corrupt localised ISLAMIC political ambitions.

ISLAM is a deeply corrupting influence upon all men who would seek to exploit its political methods and ambitions, imo.

Human beings should be running aways from ISLAM at 100 mph!!!

Seriously....

Quote:

A simple definition of SANITY/INSANITY.

Typically, an unrestrained sane person will act in ways which are harmless to others, and in ways which are creative, and productive [for himself, others, and society].

And typically, and conversely, an unrestrained INSANE person will act in ways which are harmful and destructive to himself, and, or, others around him.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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austranger

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Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Reply #74 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 11:38pm

As I see it Islam today is going through something like the Christian churches went through in the Middle Ages and onwards, the Inquisition, Reformation etc etc.
It's just our bad luck that we're "living in interesting times", alla the old Chinese curse.
The "Global Village" brings that home to all of us instead of having somewhere to escape it's worst extremes though.
We can only hope they achieve some sort of stabilsation as a more peaceful religion sooner rather than later.

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