Australian Politics Forum - Burma: Rohingya forbidden from self-identifying

Soren

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Re: Burma: Rohingya forbidden from self-identifying
Reply #15 - Apr 9^th, 2014 at 11:32pm

True Colours wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 10:39pm:

Non-Jewish holy sites are often bulldozed or even taken over by Jews to be run as synagogues.'

There are restrictions on where non-Jews can live in Israeli-occupied areas.

Muslims face restriction on visiting the most important mosque under Israeli-occupation.

Israel does not even recognise the conversion to Judaism by any person unless it is conducted by an Orthodox rabbi.

Women in Israel cannot get a divorce without their husband's approval.

Jewish women are prohibited from praying at Judaism's most holy site.

Israel has gender segregated public buses and sidewalks in certain areas.

So?? They are Jews. What do you want?

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95430 Gender:	Re: Burma: Rohingya forbidden from self-identifying Reply #16 - Apr 9^th, 2014 at 11:37pm Soren wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 11:31pm: True Colours wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 10:39pm: Jews are not allowed to intermarry in Israel. Bollocks. I think he means underage defacto marriage, old chap. You know, the preferred union of your Islamist fanatic.
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True Colours

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Re: Burma: Rohingya forbidden from self-identifying
Reply #17 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 12:15am

Soren wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 11:31pm:

True Colours wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 10:39pm:

Jews are not allowed to intermarry in Israel.

Bollocks.

Quote:

...Since the state does not permit civil marriages, interfaith marriages, or marriages performed by non-Orthodox rabbis or unrecognized religious authorities, many marriages must take place outside the country in order to be legally recognized. This provision restricts the ability of individuals to choose their own religious authorities and prevents several hundred thousand Israeli citizens from marrying within the country. A 2010 law allows for civil registration of married couples only if both partners are recognized as being of “no religion,” which applies to a few dozen marriages each year....

http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/religiousfreedom/index.htm#wrapper

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freediver

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Re: Burma: Rohingya forbidden from self-identifying
Reply #18 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:48am

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 10:01pm:

Ah yes, I keep forgetting, its all about me. Like I said - attempting to derail this important topic. You will of course succeed - as you always do.

hypocrisy
hɪˈpɒkrɪsi/
noun
noun: hypocrisy; plural noun: hypocrisies

1.
the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case.

claiming to oppose human rights abuses only to belittle an actual case of human rights abuse by trolling a discussion on it, is a good example of hypocrisy.

Do you actually have an opinion on the subject FD? Do you think its important to speak out against this case of systematic abuse? Are you concerned by the possibility of yet another massacre of Rohingya?

I think the actual issue is important. You managed to introduce it in the most trivial manner possible. I had to double check to make sure it was actually you that posted it and not TC. And I think you are a hypocrite. You made it about yourself. You said this issue is close to your heart and deserves more attention, but when Muslims do it to non-Muslims you offer endless excuses. In the case of Malaysia, you can hardly pretend it is a distant issue for you, but still you offer endless excuses for the Malaysians and insist it is not important and does not need attention. Why the dramatic difference? I think it is because you do not actually value human rights (see, there I go with those wishy washy western liberal values again). You probably identify with these people by religion, race, or similar and try to couch it in terms of freedom and human rights in order to make your message more palatable. It is just a facade, and it is crumbling. Muslims cry victim at every opportunity, demand human rights and freedom for Muslims, but as soon as it comes to the rights and freedoms of non-Muslims, it suddenly turns into wishy washy western liberal morals that we are cynically exploiting to make Muslims look bad, as if they need any help. Suddenly freedom makes no sense and human rights go to the bottom of your list of priorities.

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Yadda

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Re: Burma: Rohingya forbidden from self-identifying
Reply #19 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 10:00am

Karnal wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 10:03pm:

Google: Taqiyya.

Do not exert yourself.

Here ya go, Karnal.

WHY, DO MOSLEMS LIE TO US ???

Taqiyya

“Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…”

google

+++

Dictionary;
terrorist = = a person who uses violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."
hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196

ISLAM is a virtuous philosophy ?

That is what moslems insistently claim.

But it is not credible for any one who joins himself to ISLAM to claim, that ISLAM is intrinsically 'moderate' or begin, or that individual moslems themselves are benign, in their true intentions, towards persons who are outside of his [the moslem] 'camp' [when ISLAM places an obligation upon every moslem, of 'religious' enmity towards those who are not moslems.].

If any person makes a claim that ISLAM is a peace loving and virtuous philosophy, such a person is simply engaging in ISLAMIC lying and ISLAMIC deceit - so as to protect and to shield their real intentions from open scrutiny and deserved censure, imo.

ISLAM is a violent and extreme [terrorist] philosophy which sanctions and encourages the use of intimidation and extreme violence in the pursuit of [ISLAM's] political aims.

And ISLAM is a philosophy which also encourages deception and lying to achieve political advancement, for the moslem who is 'forced' to live among those who are not moslems.

CONSIDER;
Wherever in the world moslems have political authority [over those who are not moslems], ISLAM, has demonstrated itself to be a vicious and violent philosophy entity [towards all those who offer legitimate criticism of ISLAM's political 'form' and methods, and, towards those individuals who are not moslems].

Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit

How Taqiyya Alters Islams Rules of War

http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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True Colours

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Re: Burma: Rohingya forbidden from self-identifying
Reply #20 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 10:54am

Yadda why do you persist with the taqqiya bs?

Taqqiyya is not an Islamic practice. Taqqiyya was invented by the Shi-ite cult's ayatollahs in Iran.

For you to rave on about taqqiya here is like a non-Christian posting about polygamy on a Christianity forum because some weird Mormons practice it in Utah.

It seems that you are the deceiver for trying to portray it as an Islamic practice when it is not.

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Karnal

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Re: Burma: Rohingya forbidden from self-identifying
Reply #21 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 11:03am

True Colours wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 10:54am:

Yadda why do you persist with the taqqiya bs?

Taqqiyya is not an Islamic practice. Taqqiyya was invented by the Shi-ite cult's ayatollahs in Iran.

For you to rave on about taqqiya here is like a non-Christian posting about polygamy on a Christianity forum because some weird Mormons practice it in Utah.

It seems that you are the deceiver for trying to portray it as an Islamic practice when it is not.

That's not very tolerant, True. Surely Y is free to follow the succession of Ali.

There is no god but Gud.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Burma: Rohingya forbidden from self-identifying
Reply #22 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 11:35am

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:48am:

I think the actual issue is important. You managed to introduce it in the most trivial manner possible.

How is it trivial? If Rohingya enjoyed equality in their own country, and had not been massacred in their hundreds on several occasions and systematically driven out of their homes and had them destroyed - then this sort of dehumanising tactic might be somewhere approaching trivial - as opposed to being an incredibly sinister portent to more massacres and even genocide.

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:48am:

You made it about yourself.

No FD - you made it about me in your first reply. Find me a single reference in my posts to "me" or "I" before you attempted to derail this thread into a 'drag gandalf through the mud' exercise. Don't be such a horrible liar.

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:48am:

In the case of Malaysia

In the case of Malaysia, apostates are not being massacred in their hundreds and having their houses burned down by government sanctioned rioters. How dare you try and find some moral equivalence between the two.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Burma: Rohingya forbidden from self-identifying
Reply #23 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 12:14pm

Quote:

Taqqiyya is not an Islamic practice. Taqqiyya was invented by the Shi-ite cult's ayatollahs in Iran.

Not according to Abu. Not sure if he labelled it taqiyya, but he listed examples of where Muslims are permitted to lie. In one of his classic episodes, he said Muslims are permitted to lie in the context of war, and also that the west has been waging war on the Muslim words for over a century. More recently, a Muslim posted here the situations where lying is permitted. It seemed to cover a very broad range of scenarios, from placating your wife to slaughtering the infidel.

Quote:

How is it trivial?

You made it trivial by introducing it as a UN survey that left their group off the list.

Quote:

How dare you try and find some moral equivalence between the two.

You made it about the right to self identify. Not sure why you deliberately chose an angle that makes you as hypocritical as possible.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Burma: Rohingya forbidden from self-identifying
Reply #24 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 2:34pm

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 12:14pm:

You made it trivial by introducing it as a UN survey that left their group off the list.

It was an interesting piece of news that has recently come up. Thats why I chose to post it. I think it is a dangerous development in the context of the deteriorating situation for the Rhohingya, and not the least bit trivial - and the UN Rapporteur agrees:

Quote:

The Special Rapporteur also expressed concern about the ongoing census in Myanmar: “The Government’s decision against self-identification of the Rohingya for the census is not in compliance with international human rights standards,” he stressed.

Self-identification for the Rohingya has been at the root of some protests in the past in Rakhine State that led to violence and human rights violations and abuses for which there is yet to be accountability. “The ongoing census risks this cycle repeating itself,” the expert said.

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 12:14pm:

You made it about the right to self identify. Not sure why you deliberately chose an angle that makes you as hypocritical as possible.

Well you are entitled to your little fantasy about me being a cheerleader for apostasy laws in Malaysia. In any case, your goal here was to derail this thread and ensure nothing about the subject is discussed. So congratulations, mission accomplished - again.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95430 Gender:	Re: Burma: Rohingya forbidden from self-identifying Reply #25 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 4:52pm freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 12:14pm: Quote: Taqqiyya is not an Islamic practice. Taqqiyya was invented by the Shi-ite cult's ayatollahs in Iran. Not according to Abu. Ah.
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Yadda

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Re: Burma: Rohingya forbidden from self-identifying
Reply #26 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 6:03pm

True Colours wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 10:54am:

Yadda why do you persist with the taqqiya bs?

Taqqiyya is not an Islamic practice.

Taqqiyya was invented by the Shi-ite cult's ayatollahs in Iran.

LIAR.

True Colours,

You come into this forum, and you seek to assure those here, who you believe are uninformed about ISLAM practices, that only Shi-ites use/engage in, Taqqiyya.

But that claim, in itself, is a Sunni lie, and it is a complete deception.

Your claim is just a bare faced deceit.

PROOF....

As evidenced by the blatant and deceitful and lying claims, that have been made by, for example,
the - Sunni - Muslim Council of Britain....

Quote:

A body representing British 'mainstream' moslems, The Muslim Council of Britain, declares on its website, that ISLAM is a philosophy which condemns extremism and violence....

Quote:

Rejecting Terror
Thursday, 11 April 2013

Muslims everywhere consider all acts of terrorism that aims to murder and maim innocent human beings utterly reprehensible and abhorrent. There is no theological basis whatsoever for such acts in our faith. The very meaning of the word 'Islam' is peace. It rejects terror and promotes peace and harmony.

http://www.mcb.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2307:mcbnewst...
http://www.mcb.org.uk/article_detail.php?article=announcement-656

'ISLAM IS PEACE' "AND REJECTS TERROR" - DECLARES THE BODY THAT REPRESENTS ALL BRITISH SUNNI 'MAINSTREAM' MOSLEM COMMUNITIES....

FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED - ISLAM'S PROPHET AND ARGUABLY, THE AUTHOR OF ALL OF ISLAM'S THEOLOGY

Allah's Apostle said,

"I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy)...."

hadith/bukhari #004.052.220

".....I have been given superiority......; I have been helped by terror (in the hearts of enemies):....."

hadithsunnah/muslim/ #004.1062

ISLAMIC law....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."

hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

+++

There are many more examples of Sunnis using blatant lying and deceit - when they, Sunnis, speak to those who are not moslems.

So True Colours, you can see that,

1/ you are a liar,
AND,
2/ all moslems [both Shiites and Sunnis] are SHAMELESS, barefaced, liars and deceivers - who do engage in Taqqiya.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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freediver

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Re: Burma: Rohingya forbidden from self-identifying
Reply #27 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 6:09pm

Quote:

Well you are entitled to your little fantasy about me being a cheerleader for apostasy laws in Malaysia.

It was about your lengthy attempt to explain away as unimportant Malaysia's refusal to allow ethnic Malays to self identify as non-Muslim, and to imprison them in "rehabilitation camps" if they try. I even quoted it for you. It is pretty much the exact opposite of the views you have expressed in this thread, and the only thing that has changed is that Muslims are the victims rather than the perpetrator. It is textbook hypocrisy, and if I have to derail a thread to get this through to you, then that is a price I am willing to pay.

Quote:

In any case, your goal here was to derail this thread and ensure nothing about the subject is discussed.

We all agree that it is bad. I personally believe that addressing the hypocrisy of Muslims is the best way forward. I doubt the Hindus doing this are in any way reassured by the hypocrisy of Muslims like you. They no doubt expect, not entirely irrationally, that Muslims are either oppressed or the oppressors. There aren't exactly a lot of examples of the middle ground. If Muslims started to actually care about freedom and human rights when it is fellow Muslims, and in particular Muslims of the same faction, who are the perpetrators rather than the victims, then most of the world's problems would be solved overnight. Basically, if they did what you say you do rather than what you actually do here.

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Yadda

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Re: Burma: Rohingya forbidden from self-identifying
Reply #28 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 6:13pm

True Colours wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 10:54am:

Yadda why do you persist with the taqqiya bs?

Taqqiyya is not an Islamic practice.

Taqqiyya was invented by the Shi-ite cult's ayatollahs in Iran.

Quote:

A body representing British 'mainstream' moslems, The Muslim Council of Britain, declares on its website, that ISLAM is a philosophy which condemns extremism and violence....

Quote:

Rejecting Terror
Thursday, 11 April 2013

Muslims everywhere consider all acts of terrorism that aims to murder and maim innocent human beings utterly reprehensible and abhorrent. There is no theological basis whatsoever for such acts in our faith. The very meaning of the word 'Islam' is peace. It rejects terror and promotes peace and harmony.

http://www.mcb.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2307:mcbnewst...
http://www.mcb.org.uk/article_detail.php?article=announcement-656

QUESTION;

How can we tell if a moslem is lying ?

ANSWER;

Hmmmmm, let me think........

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21678 A cat with a view	Re: Burma: Rohingya forbidden from self-identifying Reply #29 - Apr 10^th, 2014 at 6:18pm True Colours wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 10:54am: Yadda why do you persist with the taqqiya bs? Taqqiyya is not an Islamic practice. Taqqiyya was invented by the Shi-ite cult's ayatollahs in Iran. It is. It is. It is.
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