Australian Politics Forum - Could this be true?

Peter Freedman

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Could this be true?
Apr 14^th, 2014 at 8:02am

Am currently reading: Love, Poverty and War by Christopher Hitchens.

In it he claims that two of the greatest wartime speeches, "We shall fight on the beaches" and "the Empire's finest hour" were not made by Churchill, but by Norman Shelley, an impersonator who also played Winnie the Pooh in the BBC's Children's Hour!

The suspicion is that WS was too drunk to make them himself.

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cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: Could this be true? Reply #1 - Apr 14^th, 2014 at 8:05am who knows.. Pete that story has been around for a long time......how does anyone disprove it..??? he had a wonderful voice...CHurchill that is...it wouldnt be hard to impersonate it... the thing is... what does it matter..
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Peter Freedman Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5275 Wellington Gender:	Re: Could this be true? Reply #2 - Apr 14^th, 2014 at 8:23am Probably not much, but it is interesting. Winnie certainly liked his tipple.
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cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: Could this be true? Reply #3 - Apr 14^th, 2014 at 8:26am as most did in those days... the didnt have the SAVE YOUR LIVER commercials..did they? he did everything wrong.. smoked.. the biggest cigars.....drank like a fish over weight.and look how old he was when he finally died..90.....not bad.
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Peter Freedman Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5275 Wellington Gender:	Re: Could this be true? Reply #4 - Apr 14^th, 2014 at 8:30am Yep. I may be of the left, while he was rightwing. But he still has my admiration and was definitely a hero.
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Kat Gold Member Offline Socialism IS the answer. Posts: 17709 Everywhere and no-where Gender:	Re: Could this be true? Reply #5 - Apr 14^th, 2014 at 8:32am Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 14^th, 2014 at 8:30am: Yep. I may be of the left, while he was rightwing. But he still has my admiration and was definitely a hero. Agree.
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longweekend58

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Re: Could this be true?
Reply #6 - Apr 14^th, 2014 at 9:27am

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 14^th, 2014 at 8:02am:

Am currently reading: Love, Poverty and War by Christopher Hitchens.

In it he claims that two of the greatest wartime speeches, "We shall fight on the beaches" and "the Empire's finest hour" were not made by Churchill, but by Norman Shelley, an impersonator who also played Winnie the Pooh in the BBC's Children's Hour!

The suspicion is that WS was too drunk to make them himself.

I believe they were made in the House and were filmed. I find it rather unlikely they had someone who could both speak, look like and act like Churchill.

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cods

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Re: Could this be true?
Reply #7 - Apr 14^th, 2014 at 9:41am

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 14^th, 2014 at 8:30am:

Yep. I may be of the left, while he was rightwing.

But he still has my admiration and was definitely a hero.

he was a Liberal in another life.. before turning Tory..lol..I lived in his electorate Wanstead and Woodford..which ended up being part of London due to the War... but was Essex.

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Swagman Gold Member Offline Beware of cheap imitations...... Posts: 15095 Illawarra NSW Gender:	Re: Could this be true? Reply #8 - Apr 14^th, 2014 at 1:29pm Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 14^th, 2014 at 8:30am: , while he was rightwing. Why do you think he had such contempt for National Socialism Peter?
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bogarde73 Gold Member Offline Anti-Global & Contra Mundum Posts: 18443 Gender:	Re: Could this be true? Reply #9 - Apr 14^th, 2014 at 2:58pm I think they were broadcast speeches and not made in the House but I could be wrong.
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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Could this be true? Reply #10 - Apr 14^th, 2014 at 3:04pm Kat wrote on Apr 14^th, 2014 at 8:32am: Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 14^th, 2014 at 8:30am: Yep. I may be of the left, while he was rightwing. But he still has my admiration and was definitely a hero. Agree. And yet, when Saddam emulated Churchill in gassing the kurds, they called him a monster. A bit of a double standard.
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Peter Freedman

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Re: Could this be true?
Reply #11 - Apr 14^th, 2014 at 8:32pm

Swagman wrote on Apr 14^th, 2014 at 1:29pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 14^th, 2014 at 8:30am:

, while he was rightwing.

Why do you think he had such contempt for National Socialism Peter?

Do you really have to ask that question, Swag?

I guess the reason is because Nazism was evil, murderous and intent on world domination by force.

That will do to begin with.

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Peter Freedman

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Re: Could this be true?
Reply #12 - Apr 14^th, 2014 at 8:37pm

... wrote on Apr 14^th, 2014 at 3:04pm:

Kat wrote on Apr 14^th, 2014 at 8:32am:

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 14^th, 2014 at 8:30am:

Yep. I may be of the left, while he was rightwing.

But he still has my admiration and was definitely a hero.

Agree.

And yet, when Saddam emulated Churchill in gassing the kurds, they called him a monster.

A bit of a double standard.

True. Churchill was no saint. He made many mistakes.

The bungled Anzac invasion of Turkey in WW1 was largely his doing.

But his dogged, indomitable spirit was what helped England through WW2.

Overall, I think he comes out on the positive side.

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red baron

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Re: Could this be true?
Reply #13 - Apr 14^th, 2014 at 8:56pm

Churchill was a great man - for Great Britain, not so great for Australia.

WINSTON CHURCHILL - NO FRIEND TO AUSTRALIA

Although happy to take all the sailors, soldiers and airmen that Australia was prepared to place at his disposal for the defence of Britain, Churchill had no concern about Australia's fate when Japan's conquering armies menaced Australia. His assurances of British military support for Australia against the Japanese were lies. He had already betrayed Australia to the Japanese at the Arcadia Conference held in Washington in late December 1941. Churchill even resisted the return of Australian troops from the Middle East to defend their own country; he wanted to use them In Burma to defend India against the advancing Japanese.

** John Curtin defied Churchill and ordered the Australian Troops home and they were redirected from sailing to Burma where Churchill wanted them to Australia where they went to New Guinea to relieve the young kids who were fighting there and successfully bogging the cream of the Japanese Army down..

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