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I don't trust the Salvos anymore (Read 4514 times)
John Smith
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Re: I don't trust the Salvos anymore
Reply #45 - Apr 16th, 2014 at 8:20am  
Schu wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 7:59pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 7:29pm:
Schu wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 7:26pm:
About five years ago I made the decision that direct donations to charities were not the best way to go


good choice .... once you donate and they get your name all they do is hound  you

I make it a point to never donate to anyone that calls me. No matter how worthwhile the cause ... it just encourages them

I totally understand that. I was the same until I discovered the joys of the Do Not Call Register. The worst of it is that the information is collated and shared (see below). So donate to one and several more suddenly start calling.

My mother gets dozens of letters and phone calls a week and no matter how many times she says she'll donate when she has the extra funds they continue to hound her.

In most cases the people calling have nothing to do with the organisation itself, but are a separate fundraising group which handle the donation gathering for a number of organisations. I appreciate that this has been proven to be the most cost-efficient and effective way of raising funds, but I think they need to improve their systems significantly and stop using information they have about a person donating to one charity to determine who they call about another.

I also don't like the way some of them prey on vulnerable people. My other grandmother was old, lonely, quite senile, well off and ridiculously generous. She was an easy target and when she was moved into a nursing home we discovered that she was donating almost half her income to charity, some of which were not ones she would have supported if she'd understood what was happening.



Unfortunately, I run my business from home so the do not call register doesn't apply. Whenever I donate I always make it a point to tell them that if they start calling me, I stop donating .

I even had an occassion once when some girl on the streets in Noosa was collecting for World Wildlife Fund, and I pulled out some money but she refused to take it .... she said she could only accept a 'subscription' type thing where they withdraw a pre determined amount automatically every month, she wanted me to sign an authority to direct debit my account  .... I laughed at her and walked away with my cash.

I don't understand how a charity can refuse cash ....
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Our esteemed leader:
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cods
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Re: I don't trust the Salvos anymore
Reply #46 - Apr 16th, 2014 at 8:51am  
... wrote on Apr 16th, 2014 at 8:10am:
cods wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 4:06pm:
... wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 2:23pm:
Roll Eyes

People trust people, not organisations.



disagree..

put on a uniform.. bang a drum.. telling everyone you are a soldier of the lord...

what do you expect anyone to think when they meet you dressed in the uniform of the army??...

if someone was putting you in a salvation army run home today...

would you go willingly knowing what you know now?....



Dafuq?  Why would a 33 year old be put in a home?  There aren't even any homes to put me in if they wanted to. 



so someone sees the funny side of child abuse.... Angry takes all kinds.
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...
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Re: I don't trust the Salvos anymore
Reply #47 - Apr 16th, 2014 at 10:14am  
cods wrote on Apr 16th, 2014 at 8:51am:
... wrote on Apr 16th, 2014 at 8:10am:
cods wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 4:06pm:
... wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 2:23pm:
Roll Eyes

People trust people, not organisations.



disagree..

put on a uniform.. bang a drum.. telling everyone you are a soldier of the lord...

what do you expect anyone to think when they meet you dressed in the uniform of the army??...

if someone was putting you in a salvation army run home today...

would you go willingly knowing what you know now?....



Dafuq?  Why would a 33 year old be put in a home?  There aren't even any homes to put me in if they wanted to. 



so someone sees the funny side of child abuse.... Angry takes all kinds.


You just get weirder and weirder.
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In the fullness of time...
 
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longweekend58
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Re: I don't trust the Salvos anymore
Reply #48 - Apr 16th, 2014 at 10:28am  
Schu wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 7:26pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 6:58pm:
I will still go with my original observation. I've heard it all before and when pushed the answer is almost always the same "I don't give at all or very sparingly".

Righteo.

About five years ago I made the decision that direct donations to charities were not the best way to go and I made some changes to certain elements of my life instead.

I buy as much Fairtrade and locally produced items that I can. This extends to food, clothing, kitchen utensils, bathroom and cleaning products. I don't just trust what I am told; I research a fair bit to check out the companies and suppliers. A lot of my fruit and vegetables are bought direct from markets.

I have volunteered my time with three organisations including one to do with children and two women's groups. I also volunteer my professional capabilities to various projects related to women's issues and humanitarian causes. I have on three prior occasions allowed women escaping domestic violence to stay with me when there was no room at shelters and I have provided for them and their children. 

In the last financial ear my direct financial donations to three organisations totalled approximately 10% of my income. That is without, obviously, me factoring in my time.



well done. you are however, the exception to the rule. Most people who say what you originally said, give nothing and I am sure you are as aware of that as me.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: I don't trust the Salvos anymore
Reply #49 - Apr 16th, 2014 at 10:28am  
John Smith wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 7:29pm:
Schu wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 7:26pm:
About five years ago I made the decision that direct donations to charities were not the best way to go


good choice .... once you donate and they get your name all they do is hound  you

I make it a point to never donate to anyone that calls me. No matter how worthwhile the cause ... it just encourages them


and just in time, there is the case in point Schu!
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: I don't trust the Salvos anymore
Reply #50 - Apr 16th, 2014 at 10:29am  
Schu wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 7:59pm:
John Smith wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 7:29pm:
Schu wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 7:26pm:
About five years ago I made the decision that direct donations to charities were not the best way to go


good choice .... once you donate and they get your name all they do is hound  you

I make it a point to never donate to anyone that calls me. No matter how worthwhile the cause ... it just encourages them

I totally understand that. I was the same until I discovered the joys of the Do Not Call Register. The worst of it is that the information is collated and shared (see below). So donate to one and several more suddenly start calling.

My mother gets dozens of letters and phone calls a week and no matter how many times she says she'll donate when she has the extra funds they continue to hound her.

In most cases the people calling have nothing to do with the organisation itself, but are a separate fundraising group which handle the donation gathering for a number of organisations. I appreciate that this has been proven to be the most cost-efficient and effective way of raising funds, but I think they need to improve their systems significantly and stop using information they have about a person donating to one charity to determine who they call about another.

I also don't like the way some of them prey on vulnerable people. My other grandmother was old, lonely, quite senile, well off and ridiculously generous. She was an easy target and when she was moved into a nursing home we discovered that she was donating almost half her income to charity, some of which were not ones she would have supported if she'd understood what was happening.


I went on the do-not-cll register about an hour after it was operationsl. UNfoirtunately, it does not apply to charities.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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sherri
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Re: I don't trust the Salvos anymore
Reply #51 - Apr 16th, 2014 at 10:46am  
longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 4:34pm:
In most of these organisations they are guilty of no more than naivete and bad judgment. Up until relatively recently child sexual abuse was on no ones agenda at all.  Society not only didn't talk about it but in many ways even accepted it as 'inevitable'.   Haven't you yet worked out that perhaps the salvos and the scouts and the churches etc were TARGETED by paedos simply because that gave them access to children? The naivete was to not recognise this and of course the faillure to address it is another.

What we are seeing though is that pedos target any group that gives them access to children.  TV and media have come under scrutiny recently as well and there is no organisation that works with kids that HASNT had this problem. Now however, people are aware and what you may have noticed is that in most of these organisations the cases of abuse are decades old. The problem has been seen, identified and largely rectified. But the list of victims is not yet  dealt with.

everyone has been targeted. It would be foolish to label any group as 'pedo-friendly' without recnignising that they too were targets.

I agree with you.
There is no such thing as the perfect organisation, the perfect church or the perfect workplace etc for the simple reason that they are all filled with people and not all people are the same.

If I were to say that no blacks were to be trusted anymore because a few were guilty of crimes, I would be looked on as racist. Yet people here seem to routinely judge a whole organisation by the actions of a few.

The majority of people in churches and charitable organisations are probably decent enough people. That doesn't excuse the wrong doers.

And it's a mistake to put any group up on pedestals. I hear it all the time about nurses but they're not all perfect either.

Where there is money, there is the potential for crime-in any organisation. And I am starting to think the same of paedophiles-they can be anywhere.

It is how it is tackled that counts and that hasn't always been done well in the past, has it.
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Schu
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Re: I don't trust the Salvos anymore
Reply #52 - Apr 16th, 2014 at 11:02am  
longweekend58 wrote on Apr 16th, 2014 at 10:28am:
Schu wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 7:26pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 6:58pm:
I will still go with my original observation. I've heard it all before and when pushed the answer is almost always the same "I don't give at all or very sparingly".

Righteo.

About five years ago I made the decision that direct donations to charities were not the best way to go and I made some changes to certain elements of my life instead.

I buy as much Fairtrade and locally produced items that I can. This extends to food, clothing, kitchen utensils, bathroom and cleaning products. I don't just trust what I am told; I research a fair bit to check out the companies and suppliers. A lot of my fruit and vegetables are bought direct from markets.

I have volunteered my time with three organisations including one to do with children and two women's groups. I also volunteer my professional capabilities to various projects related to women's issues and humanitarian causes. I have on three prior occasions allowed women escaping domestic violence to stay with me when there was no room at shelters and I have provided for them and their children. 

In the last financial ear my direct financial donations to three organisations totalled approximately 10% of my income. That is without, obviously, me factoring in my time.



well done. you are however, the exception to the rule. Most people who say what you originally said, give nothing and I am sure you are as aware of that as me.

I don't think people have an obligation to give money to any causes. I would never expect someone to provide an excuse as to why they don't donate - their money, their choice.

The other point I was making with my post is that giving isn't just about reaching into one's pocket for a donation to charities. Time and other resources are just as valuable. Someone who, for example, donates their training and skills by working for MSF (Doctors Without Borders) is doing a lot, but they might refuse to give money directly to any organisation.

As is being someone who is prepared to stand up to wrong doing. For example, more valuable than donation to a women's shelter is preventing domestic violence in the first place. Prevention is better than cure. No amount of donated money is ever equivalent to a friend who sees a friend in strife and offers a helping hand.

This applies to your comment about John Smith subsequently. Do I think he (?) is representative of your point about people finding excuses not to donate? I wouldn't be making that judgement at all. I don't know him.

If I was the sort of person to make sweeping generalisations and individual judgements about random people on forums then I'd probably say that those who sit in judgement on others, in my experience, tend to be hypocrites.
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John Smith
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Re: I don't trust the Salvos anymore
Reply #53 - Apr 16th, 2014 at 11:11am  
longweekend58 wrote on Apr 16th, 2014 at 10:28am:
John Smith wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 7:29pm:
Schu wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 7:26pm:
About five years ago I made the decision that direct donations to charities were not the best way to go


good choice .... once you donate and they get your name all they do is hound  you

I make it a point to never donate to anyone that calls me. No matter how worthwhile the cause ... it just encourages them


and just in time, there is the case in point Schu!



English not your forte' longlooser?
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Our esteemed leader:
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John Smith
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Re: I don't trust the Salvos anymore
Reply #54 - Apr 16th, 2014 at 11:14am  
Schu wrote on Apr 16th, 2014 at 11:02am:
This applies to your comment about John Smith subsequently. Do I think he (?) is representative of your point about people finding excuses not to donate? I wouldn't be making that judgement at all. I don't know him.If I was the sort of person to make sweeping generalisations and individual judgements about random people on forums then I'd probably say that those who sit in judgement on others, in my experience, tend to be hypocrites.



oouchhh . Grin Grin Grin now you've done it

Longlooser only ever see's what he wants to see, regardless of what one puts up in front of him ... you'll get used to him.

he'll question your intelligence now Wink
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Our esteemed leader:
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Schu
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Re: I don't trust the Salvos anymore
Reply #55 - Apr 16th, 2014 at 11:20am  
John Smith wrote on Apr 16th, 2014 at 11:14am:
Schu wrote on Apr 16th, 2014 at 11:02am:
This applies to your comment about John Smith subsequently. Do I think he (?) is representative of your point about people finding excuses not to donate? I wouldn't be making that judgement at all. I don't know him.If I was the sort of person to make sweeping generalisations and individual judgements about random people on forums then I'd probably say that those who sit in judgement on others, in my experience, tend to be hypocrites.



oouchhh . Grin Grin Grin now you've done it

Longlooser only ever see's what he wants to see, regardless of what one puts up in front of him ... you'll get used to him.

he'll question your intelligence now Wink

Thanks for the heads up. So first my character, then my intelligence, and I suppose then my ideologies.
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John Smith
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Re: I don't trust the Salvos anymore
Reply #56 - Apr 16th, 2014 at 11:22am  
Schu wrote on Apr 16th, 2014 at 11:20am:
John Smith wrote on Apr 16th, 2014 at 11:14am:
Schu wrote on Apr 16th, 2014 at 11:02am:
This applies to your comment about John Smith subsequently. Do I think he (?) is representative of your point about people finding excuses not to donate? I wouldn't be making that judgement at all. I don't know him.If I was the sort of person to make sweeping generalisations and individual judgements about random people on forums then I'd probably say that those who sit in judgement on others, in my experience, tend to be hypocrites.



oouchhh . Grin Grin Grin now you've done it

Longlooser only ever see's what he wants to see, regardless of what one puts up in front of him ... you'll get used to him.

he'll question your intelligence now Wink

Thanks for the heads up. So first my character, then my intelligence, and I suppose then my ideologies.


no, he never debates ideology ... his change so often he can't afford to.
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BatteriesNotIncluded
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Re: I don't trust the Salvos anymore
Reply #57 - Apr 16th, 2014 at 12:03pm  
sherri wrote on Apr 16th, 2014 at 10:46am:
longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 4:34pm:
In most of these organisations they are guilty of no more than naivete and bad judgment. Up until relatively recently child sexual abuse was on no ones agenda at all.  Society not only didn't talk about it but in many ways even accepted it as 'inevitable'.   Haven't you yet worked out that perhaps the salvos and the scouts and the churches etc were TARGETED by paedos simply because that gave them access to children? The naivete was to not recognise this and of course the faillure to address it is another.

What we are seeing though is that pedos target any group that gives them access to children.  TV and media have come under scrutiny recently as well and there is no organisation that works with kids that HASNT had this problem. Now however, people are aware and what you may have noticed is that in most of these organisations the cases of abuse are decades old. The problem has been seen, identified and largely rectified. But the list of victims is not yet  dealt with.

everyone has been targeted. It would be foolish to label any group as 'pedo-friendly' without recnignising that they too were targets.

I agree with you.
There is no such thing as the perfect organisation, the perfect church or the perfect workplace etc for the simple reason that they are all filled with people and not all people are the same.

If I were to say that no blacks were to be trusted anymore because a few were guilty of crimes, I would be looked on as racist. Yet people here seem to routinely judge a whole organisation by the actions of a few.

The majority of people in churches and charitable organisations are probably decent enough people. That doesn't excuse the wrong doers.

And it's a mistake to put any group up on pedestals. I hear it all the time about nurses but they're not all perfect either.

Where there is money, there is the potential for crime-in any organisation. And I am starting to think the same of paedophiles-they can be anywhere.

It is how it is tackled that counts and that hasn't always been done well in the past, has it.

System corrupts man!

To judge people for not giving to the salvos is fascistic if not mentally uncharacteristic of stable  Wink
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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it_is_the_light
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Re: I don't trust the Salvos anymore
Reply #58 - Apr 16th, 2014 at 12:15pm  
Schu wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 1:23pm:
My grandma was in a Salvation Army girls home and suffered the abuse talked about at the Royal Commission (she developed dementia in the mid 90s and died in 2006). It severely damaged her life and had an impact on her children and grandchildren.

It used to annoy me when I was younger that people saw the Salvos as different to all the other organisations when the abuse issues started becoming known. What was worse was when I would actually relay what I knew and people would have the gall to dispute me because the "Salvos are good people and a reputable organisation". These weren't people who were part of the Salvos, just sucked in by their reputation.

I'm glad that delusion has now broken down.


many blessings and yes

it certainly has as all continues to be revealed

these institutions continue to pay to rape..

these are legalized rape,torture and abuse institutions

that the government does not tax ..

quite a good cover for the freemasons to rape

children to access the tunnels of typhon

explained here



http://www.cuttingedge.org/free11.html

these continue to be exposed

in the divine light

namaste




ॐ
/
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ॐ May Much LOVE and CHRISTS LIGHT be upon and within us all.... namasté ▲ - : )  ╰დ╮ॐ╭დ╯
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longweekend58
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Re: I don't trust the Salvos anymore
Reply #59 - Apr 16th, 2014 at 12:41pm  
Schu wrote on Apr 16th, 2014 at 11:02am:
longweekend58 wrote on Apr 16th, 2014 at 10:28am:
Schu wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 7:26pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 6:58pm:
I will still go with my original observation. I've heard it all before and when pushed the answer is almost always the same "I don't give at all or very sparingly".

Righteo.

About five years ago I made the decision that direct donations to charities were not the best way to go and I made some changes to certain elements of my life instead.

I buy as much Fairtrade and locally produced items that I can. This extends to food, clothing, kitchen utensils, bathroom and cleaning products. I don't just trust what I am told; I research a fair bit to check out the companies and suppliers. A lot of my fruit and vegetables are bought direct from markets.

I have volunteered my time with three organisations including one to do with children and two women's groups. I also volunteer my professional capabilities to various projects related to women's issues and humanitarian causes. I have on three prior occasions allowed women escaping domestic violence to stay with me when there was no room at shelters and I have provided for them and their children. 

In the last financial ear my direct financial donations to three organisations totalled approximately 10% of my income. That is without, obviously, me factoring in my time.



well done. you are however, the exception to the rule. Most people who say what you originally said, give nothing and I am sure you are as aware of that as me.

I don't think people have an obligation to give money to any causes. I would never expect someone to provide an excuse as to why they don't donate - their money, their choice.

The other point I was making with my post is that giving isn't just about reaching into one's pocket for a donation to charities. Time and other resources are just as valuable. Someone who, for example, donates their training and skills by working for MSF (Doctors Without Borders) is doing a lot, but they might refuse to give money directly to any organisation.

As is being someone who is prepared to stand up to wrong doing. For example, more valuable than donation to a women's shelter is preventing domestic violence in the first place. Prevention is better than cure. No amount of donated money is ever equivalent to a friend who sees a friend in strife and offers a helping hand.

This applies to your comment about John Smith subsequently. Do I think he (?) is representative of your point about people finding excuses not to donate? I wouldn't be making that judgement at all. I don't know him.

If I was the sort of person to make sweeping generalisations and individual judgements about random people on forums then I'd probably say that those who sit in judgement on others, in my experience, tend to be hypocrites. 


My observation and experience continues to demonstrate that as a rule, people who complain about the past history of salvos or the like and carry on about failures and weakness of such groups DONT give at all to anyone. There ar ea few like yourself, but you are a rarity. John Smith proves the point.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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