Permission (to fight) is given to those against whom war is being wrongfully waged, and verily, God has indeed the power to aid them. Those who have been driven from their homelands in defiance of right for no other reason than their saying, ‘Our Lord is God.’ 22:39-40

These verses show us clearly that the battles the believers fought was purely for defensive purposes as the believers were being persecuted because they believed in the teachings of the Quran. The pagans wanted the Quran to cease to exist and wanted the prophet and his followers to perish. This is why freedom of religion in the Quran is sacrosanct. The Koran more than any other literature guaranteed the absolute right for freedom of belief and expression and thought.


The Koran makes clear the job of the prophet:

16:82 But if they turn away from you, your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message .

6:107 Yet if God had so willed, they would not have ascribed Divinity to aught besides Him; hence, We have not made you their keeper, nor are you a guardian over them.

4:79-80 Say:'Whatever good betides you is from God and whatever evil betides you is from your own self and that We have sent you to mankind only as a messenger and all sufficing is God as witness. Whoso obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys God. And for those who turn away, We have not sent you as a keeper."

11:28 He (Noah) said "O my people! think over it! If I act upon a clear direction from my Lord who has bestowed on me from Himself the Merciful talent of seeing the right way, a way which you cannot see for yourself, does it follow that we can force you to take the right path when you definitely decline to take it?°

17:53-54 And tell my servants that they should speak in a most kindly manner. Verily, Satan is always ready to stir up discord between men; for verily; Satan is mans foe .... Hence, We have not sent you with power to determine their Faith.

88:21 22; And so, exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe.

But most of all the Koran asks the prophet himself this question:

10.99-100. If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe! No soul can believe, except by the will of God, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand

Then again the Quran tells us:

109.1-6 Say : O ye that reject Faith,! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship, And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship, To you be your Way, and to me mine

There is nothing even called conquest in the Koran and there is nothing called paying taxes and offensive war and spreading faith by the sword are not Koranic whatsoever and is a direct disobedience to the orders of the Koran. Jizya in the Quran came when the believers were entering Mecca where they were forced into exile and left their homeland losing their livlihoods, homes and businesses. Jizya was never mentioned except upon the pagans of Mecca. Jizya was a war reparation and compensation for damages. The prophet was in Medina where many non believers lived under his domain but was never ordered to seek Jizya. Later Muslim authorities applied Jizya to anyone living under a Muslim ruler who are not Muslims as a form of tax. This is not the context it appears in the Quran.

So the Sunni/Shia concept that peaceful verses were abrogated by later verses that moved from defensive war to offensive has no backing from the Quran. This is because the permission allowed to fight has been outlined in the Quran. Only when provoked and forced should we fight. The prophet was a victim of religious coercion and persecution for religious propagation.

“The contemporary Islamic al-Azhar influential scholar, Muhammad Sa`id Ramadan al-Buti, says in his well-known research: “The verse (9:5) does not leave any room in the mind to conjecture about what is called defensive war. This verse asserts that holy war which is demanded in Islamic law is not a defensive war, because it could legitimately be an offensive war. That is the apex and most honorable of all Holy wars. Its goal is the exaltation of the word of Allah and the construction of Islamic society and the establishment of Allah’s kingdom on Earth regardless the means. It is legal to carry on an offensive Holy War.” ”

“Al-Suyuti does not see 2:256 abrogated by 9:73, but a case of delaying or postponing the command to fight the infidels until the Muslims become strong. When they were weak, they were commanded to endure and be patient. The first verse that was revealed in the Qur’an about fighting in Medina is Surah 2 verse 190, until Surah 9 was revealed, and it was cancelled by Surah 9 verse 5. ”

So we can see how the Islamic sects abrogated many the defensive war verses claiming verse 9.5 abrogated the defensive war only verses and changed it to offensive war. They believe in this due to the following hadith recorded in Bukhari's and Muslim's collections. Hadiths were compiled two centuries after the Quran was revealed.

Ibn ‘Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, “I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights

Bigmo wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 11:16pm:


Bigmo,

Thanks for that.

But somehow, the imam repeatedly has failed to tell it, in the Friday sermons.          

Non-moslem places of worship are routinely desecrated and destroyed by ignorant moslems.

I say 'ignorant' moslems, because they are always those moslems who did not get the missive, about freedom of religion being enshrined in the Koran.


Google;
muslims urinate, bibleiMORE.....



Hagia Sophia, in Turkey, was built by Christians.

It is a Christian cathedral.

How many Christians are permitted [by Turkish authorities] to worship in Hagia Sophia ?



"Hagia Sophia.....is a former patriarchal basilica, later a mosque, now a museum in Istanbul, Turkey......It was the largest cathedral ever built in the world for nearly a thousand years....It was the patriarchal church of the Patriarch of Constantinople and the religious focal point of the Eastern Orthodox Church for nearly 1000 years.
In 1453, Constantinople was conquered by the Ottoman Turks and Sultan Mehmed II ordered the building to be converted into the Ayasofya Mosque."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagia_Sophia


Iran: Seven historic synagogues in Tehran destroyed
Tehran, 15 April [2008] (AKI) - Seven ancient synagogues in the Iranian capital, Tehran, have been destroyed by local authorities.
The synagogues were in the Oudlajan suburb of Tehran, where many Iranian Jews used to live.
"These buildings, which were part of our cultural, artistic and architectural heritage were burnt to the ground," said Ahmad Mohit Tabatabaii, the director of the International Council of Museums’ (ICOM) office in Tehran.
"With the excuse of renovating this ancient quarter, they are erasing a part of our history," said Tabatabaii.
http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Religion/?id=1.0.2075294012


16 May 2006
Pressure on multi-faith Malaysia
Malaysia is considering its multi-cultural credentials after a crowd of Muslims on Sunday broke up a meeting called to defend the rights of religious minorities.
...."I'm becoming an alien in Malaysia, in my own country," says Dr Jacob George.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4965580.stm


Destruction of Non-Muslim Worship Centers Riles Faith Minorities in Malaysia
By Sean Yoong for AP:
April 01, 2007
PUTRAJAYA, Malaysia - The cavernous pink Putra Mosque with its soaring minaret is one of the most commanding sights and popular tourist photo backdrops in the new city of Putrajaya.
A house of worship for thousands of Muslims in the 8-year-old administrative capital of Malaysia, it is a showcase of the nation's dominant faith  Islam.
But the mosque also highlights the fact that Putrajaya doesn't have a single church or temple  a fact that minority Buddhists, Hindus and Christians see as one example of the second-class treatment other faiths get in this Muslim-majority country.
http://christianpost.com/article/20070330/destruction-of-non-muslim-worship-centers-riles-faith-minorities-in-malaysia.htm


Church demolished in Muslim-run state [Malaysia]
June 19 2007
Kuala Lumpur - Authorities have demolished a church in a Muslim-ruled state in northeast Malaysia, sparking anger among the indigenous people who say they own the property....
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=126&art_id=nw20070619141302153C420344

Bigmo wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 11:55pm:


Actually it exposes what muslims have not been told about the origins of islam from paganism and also the origins of the rituals they follow from paganism.

It's one thing to be told how to think and another trying to stop them from thinking for themselves. Knowledge is power and islam realizes this. That is why it is so strict in control of people. mohammed needed total control for his regime.

Why do these things always seem to be targeted at non-Muslims? When it is Muslims talking to non-Muslims, it's all about how the Muslims are confused and Islam is not really about violence, and they are reforming it as we speak. But when it is Muslims talking to Muslims they are calling each other hypocrites for not being 'conservative' enough, or blowing up each others' mosques, or warily avoiding each other. We saw it here with Abu and Falah, and with Abu and Gandalf. They pretty much refused to talk each other, and Abu even accused me of divisiveness when I tried to talk about their differences. Gandalf spends all his time telling us we misunderstand Islam and it is really all peace and love. He once tried insisting he is having the same argument with Muslims, but when I asked him about it he went all silent. All the talk of reform within Islam is targeted at people who know very little about Islam. It is never targeted at actually reforming Islam.

Google;
Erdogan, The Mosques are our Barracks, the Domes our helmets, the Minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers


Erdogan = = 

Recep Tayyip Erdogan

, the moderate moslem Prime Minister of Turkey



Google;
muslim violence, after "friday prayers"


Google;
mosque frequently used as an armoury, militants



Quote:

http://www.protectionist.net/2012/02/03/what-is-a-mosque/





gandalf,

In answer to your question;

No.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 5^th, 2014 at 10:13am:




gandalf,

QUESTION;
What IS frequently talked about in sermons to the lay moslem, in mosques ?

ANSWER;
Inciting hatred of those who are not moslems.

Evidence ???




IN A MOSQUE, IN THE UK, #1,

"What makes Allah happy?
Allah is happy, when kafir get killed."

[/size]

Please watch this YT...
         goto 4m 30s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZx8cNSC9O0




IN A MOSQUE, IN THE UK, #2,

"The Undercover Mosque: The return"

[...from the UK]
"A group of Christians visiting the mosque and the preacher and the Women's Circle treat [the Christians] kindly and talk about,

'We're all people of the book and we all come from the same history'."

THE KICKER...
"Just as soon as that group of visitors [the Christians] leaves, the language changes completely. 'CHRISTIANITY IS VILE', the preacher says....."



Source;
ABC Radio National Religion interview transcript  - "The Undercover Mosque: The return"
".....Stephen Crittenden: .....your program highlights a certain kind of duplicity. When they're caught out, individuals don't miss a [beat], they just say they've been taken out of context....
David Henshaw: ......Regent's Park Mosque is officially committed to inter-faith dialogue....."
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/religionreport/the-undercover-mosqu...


The term, "inter-faith dialogue" [as being used by moslems] = = code for

"don't frighten the horses"

[in the Christian churches].

'We moslems should continue to pretend that our stance towards Christians is;'

'We're all people of the book and we all come from the same history'."

WHAT THE KORAN COMMANDS;

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51

What do you think FD? Those stories of Yadda wouldn't have got out without someone "turning up" and recording it. How many uncontroversial, non-incriminating sermons do you think those undercover reporters sat through before they found the fun ones?

I guess you'll never have much idea unless you yourself starting "turning up" no?