Australian Politics Forum - Bank Error In your Favour

NorthOfNorth

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Re: Bank Error In your Favour - Hold One Million
Reply #75 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 11:41am

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 9:59am:

I am pretty sure the legal situation would only be an issue if the person refused or was unable to return the misplaced money.

Yes, I think you're right. Every lawyer I've asked seems to think so too. Not least for the reason that banks only very reluctantly disclose their system errors, for the obvious reasons.

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Schu

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Re: Bank Error In your Favour - Hold One Million
Reply #76 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 11:49am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 7:40am:

OK one final ironic twist... (Why not... It could make a good movie plot!!)

Through a bank error your account is deposited one million dollars.

   You don't spend it.

   You don't spend the interest it earns.

   You don't use it as collateral for a loan.

   And... You don't inform the bank of the error.

FAST FORWARD 10 YEARS

You haven't spent the money, you haven't informed the bank... You've striven all those years to maintain the balance (including the now whopping interest in the account).
And you've spent 10 sleepless years angsting about the money... After all, its been 10 years and there's no way (you're sure) you're going to get out of this one when the bank discovers the error.

Finally the bank contacts you and asks you to a meeting with them.You agree.

[add lengthy capers trying to defer the meeting... Illness, death in family... in psychiatric hospital having suffered nervous breakdown... etc... etc...]

The day comes you meet wit the bank manager...

They're very sorry there's been a bank error... 11 years ago you helped an ancient (and rich) Mrs Huntington-Smyth cross the road safely. You gave her your name. With six months to live, she tracks you down and anonymously deposits ... 10 million into your account... The bank has deposited a mere one million in error and now, wishes to correct that error if you'd agree to going halves on the interest the other nine million has earned over the 10 year period and wants your non-disclosure of the error.

One of those 'Honesty is the best policy' stories.

In that instance I'd probably be admitted to hospital for fainting out of shock.

Otherwise I'd gratefully accept the proposal, go away feeling mightily relieved and kick myself for awhile for being such an oddball in the first place.

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Schu

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Re: Bank Error In your Favour - Hold One Million
Reply #77 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 12:06pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 11:41am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 9:59am:

I am pretty sure the legal situation would only be an issue if the person refused or was unable to return the misplaced money.

Yes, I think you're right. Every lawyer I've asked seems to think so too. Not least for the reason that banks only very reluctantly disclose their system errors, for the obvious reasons.

I think this exchange makes a really good point: that there's a difference to how these matters are handled in practice compared to how they could be handled in theory.

Police and prosecutors generally only pursue matters where they think there is a good chance of a charge sticking. So many of these are borderline that even if a theoretical argument for theft could be made the chances of it being pursued are minimal.

Plus I doubt the bank would pursue anything so long as the moment they asked for the money back they got it and, if any was spent, restitution was made.

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longweekend58

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Re: Bank Error In your Favour - Hold One Million
Reply #78 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 12:21pm

Schu wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 12:06pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 11:41am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 9:59am:

I am pretty sure the legal situation would only be an issue if the person refused or was unable to return the misplaced money.

Yes, I think you're right. Every lawyer I've asked seems to think so too. Not least for the reason that banks only very reluctantly disclose their system errors, for the obvious reasons.

I think this exchange makes a really good point: that there's a difference to how these matters are handled in practice compared to how they could be handled in theory.

Police and prosecutors generally only pursue matters where they think there is a good chance of a charge sticking. So many of these are borderline that even if a theoretical argument for theft could be made the chances of it being pursued are minimal.

Plus I doubt the bank would pursue anything so long as the moment they asked for the money back they got it and, if any was spent, restitution was made.

plus the banks know that they would be killed in the PR storm that would follow a prosecution for money THEY stuck in someones account and which wasn't spent.

I worked in the IT dept of a bank for a long time. You would be very surprised at how many mistakes are made. We had a system of 'matched reversals' whereby the computer system would look for reversals of mistakes and exclude them from printing on statements so that no one would know.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Yadda

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Re: Bank Error In your Favour - Hold One Million
Reply #79 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 12:42pm

ian wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2014 at 10:53pm:

its exactly the same as if you found it on your front lawn and told no one. Where you found the money and who put it there is irrelevant, by not notifying the owner and keeping it you are committing theft.

The owner of the money ?

Who, is the owner of the money ?

Surely possession of the money, by the bank, does not necessarily imply that the bank was the actual owner of the money [which the bank had in its possession] ?

And if the bank were so reckless as to, mistakenly, deposit one million dollars into MY account, wouldn't that action by the bank suggest some degree of reckless negligence, on the banks part ?

p.s.
I have not taken or spent the money.

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Yadda

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Re: Bank Error In your Favour - Hold One Million
Reply #80 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 12:54pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 6:33am:

OK.

Now for a clearer case of unjust enrichment.

The bank deposits the one million dollars into your mortgage account, instantly wiping out your mortgage. Your automatic payments to your mortgage are stopped.

Its harder now to argue that you don't have a duty to act as it is evident that you have financially gained from the error.

RESPONSE.....

Yadda wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 12:42pm:

......if the bank were so reckless as to, mistakenly, deposit one million dollars into MY account, wouldn't that action by the bank suggest some degree of reckless negligence, on the banks part ?

p.s.
I have not taken or spent the money.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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brumbie

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Re: Bank Error In your Favour - Hold One Million
Reply #81 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 1:13pm

Do you remember the Kiwi couple who did a runner a 2 years ago?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2193145/Accidental-millionaire-given-3-4...

Petrol station owner accidentally given £3.4million in bank error gets four years after going on the run and spending it

I felt sorry for them...temptation Undecided

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Bank Error In your Favour - Hold One Million
Reply #82 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 1:19pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 12:21pm:

plus the banks know that they would be killed in the PR storm that would follow a prosecution for money THEY stuck in someones account and which wasn't spent.

There was a case some years back (couldn't find it on google) where into a young woman's (18) bank account went something like $100,000 in error.

She told her mother, who took her access card to check it for herself. Yes, there was $100,000 in the account.

The mother informed the bank of the error...

However, instead of being grateful, the bank insisted there was no error and told her they were now considering closing the daughter's account because she (the daughter) had breached the usage agreement of her access card by giving her mother the PIN number!!

Mum wasn't put off... She went to "Today Tonight" (or "A Current Affair... can't remember which) with her story and made an arse of the Bank.

Which Bank? Yep... Commonwealth Bank.

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longweekend58

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Re: Bank Error In your Favour - Hold One Million
Reply #83 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 1:29pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 1:19pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 12:21pm:

plus the banks know that they would be killed in the PR storm that would follow a prosecution for money THEY stuck in someones account and which wasn't spent.

There was a case some years back (couldn't find it on google) where into a young woman's (18) bank account went something like $100,000 in error.

She told her mother, who took her access card to check it for herself. Yes, there was $100,000 in the account.

The mother informed the bank of the error...

However, instead of being grateful, the bank insisted there was no error and told her they were now considering closing the daughter's account because she (the daughter) had breached the usage agreement of her access card by giving her mother the PIN number!!

Mum wasn't put off... She went to "Today Tonight" (or "A Current Affair... can't remember which) with her story and made an arse of the Bank.

Which Bank? Yep... Commonwealth Bank.

which is why a bank would never make a scene about retrieving money unhindered from an account they accidentally credited. it is all loss even if the person spent a small (and retrievable) amount of it.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Sir Spot of Borg Gold Member Offline WE ARE BORG Posts: 26509 Australia	Re: Bank Error In your Favour - Hold One Million Reply #84 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 2:46pm This morning ironically there was an extra $125 in my bank account and when i tried to see where it came from it said from the ATO. Thats the tax office right? Argh. SOB
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longweekend58

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Re: Bank Error In your Favour - Hold One Million
Reply #85 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 6:13pm

Using the ATO as an example I once had my tax payment put in the WRONG persons account by the ATO and I was getting rude threatening letters about non-payment. But the ATO refused to rectify the mistake by simply transferring the money to the right account even after acknowledging the mistake. So what did I have to do? Well... I had to get the person who got my money and a subsequent REFUND to give me the money - my money. But it gets worse. the ATO couldn't tell me who had it from privacy reasons but they COULD tell my accountant. Now the money went to my daughter so in the end it was tedious and pointless but with no loss. But imagie if your $10,000 tax payment went to some bogan who simply refused to give it back and the ATO refused to tell you who it went to but still demanded you pay it... again?

If you think banks area bad then think of the ATO. and they have prosecution powers!

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Sophia

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Re: Bank Error In your Favour - Hold One Million
Reply #86 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 6:26pm

Many years ago, before internet banking, I used to do phone banking occasionally, or else, wait till I get the statement, can't remember if it was month, or 3 monthly.

Out of the blue one day, I got a phone call from another ANZ Bank (not my usual ANZ bank).....as there was an error in banking and funds were put into my account that were not mine.

They seemed to need my permission if they can withdraw that amount out.
Of course I obliged and said yes they can, and the relief I heard in the voice was obvious, and they couldn't thank me enough.
Then in the meantime, whilst they had their eye on my account, found I had a mortgage with the ANZ banking corp. and at that time, entitled me to a waiver in monthly accountant fee of $5.
They did this favour to inform me because I obliged for them to take money out that wasn't mine. This was not my own ANZ bank, but another branch, and it made me a bit cross with my own ANZ bank for not letting me know about the waiver.

Of course, I got back a nice bit of money counting back for a fee refund since we had the mortgage with them.

The point I am making, is I am not so sure if it is the same principle now, where the bank asked permission if they could withdraw it out due to error of depositing into the wrong account number.

Just saying, if you realize you had a big amount of dosh deposited and you didn't know where it came from, nor expecting it, and the bank finds out eventually and asks for it, then this is the part where it depends on the person's scruples and if they say no, it's mine, tuff luck, what can the bank do about that?

On the other hand, if you find a large sum of money (or anything else that you find) and hand it into the police, and no one claims it, after 3 months, its yours. The police ask you to come in and collect it.

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« Last Edit: Apr 24^th, 2014 at 6:48pm by Sophia »

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Sophia

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Re: Bank Error In your Favour - Hold One Million
Reply #87 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 6:52pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 6:13pm:

Using the ATO as an example I once had my tax payment put in the WRONG persons account by the ATO and I was getting rude threatening letters about non-payment. But the ATO refused to rectify the mistake by simply transferring the money to the right account even after acknowledging the mistake. So what did I have to do? Well... I had to get the person who got my money and a subsequent REFUND to give me the money - my money. But it gets worse. the ATO couldn't tell me who had it from privacy reasons but they COULD tell my accountant. Now the money went to my daughter so in the end it was tedious and pointless but with no loss. But imagie if your $10,000 tax payment went to some bogan who simply refused to give it back and the ATO refused to tell you who it went to but still demanded you pay it... again?

If you think banks area bad then think of the ATO. and they have prosecution powers!

I used to work in the legal department of the ATO, in the typing pool, where we used to send out summonses all the time, and for the most pathetic things I recall, I sometimes wanted to take the summons and just tear it up and trash it.
When the busy time passed (mid year) and we had other months of quieter times, we used to get send down to the mailing section to check the cheques.
For the tiniest thing, they will reject any payment you make, even if you make a mistake on the cheque for paying tax, if you do not cross your t's or dot your i's, it's not acceptable.
Your cheque is then sent back, and as the timing was important to pay the tax by a due date or face paying interest penalty rates, if your cheque was sent in time into the ATO, but then sent back to you, you lose the privelege of having paid on time, and pay the penalty rates.
Obviously, do not wait till the last minute to pay in time for those reasons.

But what a shyte eh? Angry

Used to annoy me and felt sorry for people.

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« Last Edit: Apr 24^th, 2014 at 6:57pm by Sophia »

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