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Australia Not In The Midst Of Budget Crisis. (Read 4860 times)

John Smith

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Re: Australia Not In The Midst Of Budget Crisis.
Reply #45 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 5:58pm

Vuk11 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 5:56pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 5:49pm:

i have no problem with making changes to how pensions or newstart work, that even means testing them ... but it cannot have a negative affect on those that cannot afford it. We as a society can do better than that .. we are on of the richest countries in the world

Is that a yes or no to considering alternatives as drastic as a negative income tax combined with the abolition of Centrelink and Job Service Providers?

that would be a yes .... the devil is in the detail, but its certainly worth looking at.

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Australia Not In The Midst Of Budget Crisis.
Reply #46 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 7:16pm

Vuk11 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 4:47pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 4:41pm:

It's not about choosing expenditure that doesn't affect me, its about choosing expenditure cuts that affects those that can afford it. To make life harder for people already struggling is in the long run counter productive.

What is your opinion on the myriad of alternatives to this debate of cutting welfare VS taxing business?

For example:
Take the entire Welfare Budget $138.1 Billion, completely get rid of centre link and job service providers (lol), swap to a negative income tax that would see all of those without an income (Newstart/Disability/Aged Pension etc) all getting more say from 500/600/700 per fortnight to a straight 800 per fortnight each, they'd have their dignity back instead of being interrogated by two different groups every fortnight and they'd be given incentive to work. Then saving all of those Billions to reduce the deficit and provide tax cuts to all?

(ignoring for a moment those cut from public employment - their transition into the private sector would be a different topic)

Just out of curiosity.

.. and restore genuine equality of opportunity for all, develop genuine infrastructure that will offer near full employment, for example the GAIA concepts extended...and you can easily do away with all those things including your current massive welfare bills.

Continuing to frack gas and ores out of the ground and sending them off overseas so we can buy products back at valued added to the middle men is one of the world's greatest lies, and in reality benefits neither the Third World workforces and populations (they are actually disadvantaged in some ways) nor ours.

ONLY the middle men profit from such ventures,and before you start on 'Clivagina is a primary producer' - hshe is partly a primary producer and mostly an export hustler of raw materials as above.

It is in the export hustle that the dollars are made = middle men.

At some time this country has to wake up to what it is doing to itself and re-create itself as a thriving industrial nation. All the raw materials are right there for the plucking - why are we catering to greedy self-centred fools intent on strutting the world stage like Colombian drug carteliers?

Then - and ONLY then - we can afford to pay our pensioners to live instead of survive.

Word for today:-

Mopportunity (n) ... the chance to pick up a mop and put it to some good use...

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Kat

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Re: Australia Not In The Midst Of Budget Crisis.
Reply #47 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 7:25pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 9:42am:

Kat wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 9:00am:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 8:55am:

John Smith wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 8:20am:

Budget emergency my butt

scrap the $12 B on planes that don't fly .... there's $12B
scrap the tax benefits to super ................ another $13B
scrap handouts to mining /energy sector ..... another $5B

thats $30 Billion saved just there ... I'm sure if I went through the budget they'd be a lot more

the government is being run by cretins who are only looking to line their own pockets or protect their own future interests

OR

you could cut the dole
get rid of single-parent welfare
get rid of income supplements

there is more than enough there to cover the deficit.

See, I can choose expenditures that don't affect me too!

Why does that not surprise me, coming from you?

You've always been pro-wealthfare and anti-welfare.

quite the contrary. The problem is that you see everything thru the one biased eye in your head. If someone supports a policy position you disagree with you then assume thy disagree with you on everything. That is why you are so mocked on here.

If you had half a brain you would have seen SATIRE in my response.

Only by serial trolls and those like you who don't like my support for welfare recips, so think it
justifies attempting to denigrate and minimalise me as a person. As you are well known for doing
not just to me but to others who you disagree with.

I get on fine with most members, it's only the ratbags I have problems with. Or who have problems with me.

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perceptions_now

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Re: Australia Not In The Midst Of Budget Crisis.
Reply #48 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 7:31pm

Vuk11 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 4:33pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 4:01pm:

One of those additional Demographic issues, is the sliding Worker to Retiree ratio, which has been on the decline everywhere and in the USA it has gone from 7/1 in 1950, to around 4/1 now, on its way to around 3.5/1 in 2050

Thank you!
I've been looking for a graph to illustrate this point for some time.

Do you perhaps have a source lying around?

Go to -
http://www.econdataus.com/budget.html
Then hit the following -
World Data: 1950-2050

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Vuk11

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Re: Australia Not In The Midst Of Budget Crisis.
Reply #49 - Apr 24^th, 2014 at 8:00pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Apr 24^th, 2014 at 7:16pm:

.. and restore genuine equality of opportunity for all, develop genuine infrastructure that will offer near full employment, for example the GAIA concepts extended...and you can easily do away with all those things including your current massive welfare bills.

ONLY the middle men profit from such ventures,and before you start on 'Clivagina is a primary producer' - hshe is partly a primary producer and mostly an export hustler of raw materials as above.

It is in the export hustle that the dollars are made = middle men.

At some time this country has to wake up to what it is doing to itself and re-create itself as a thriving industrial nation. All the raw materials are right there for the plucking - why are we catering to greedy self-centred fools intent on strutting the world stage like Colombian drug carteliers?

Then - and ONLY then - we can afford to pay our pensioners to live instead of survive.

Word for today:-

Mopportunity (n) ... the chance to pick up a mop and put it to some good use...

Good Sir Grappler, could I first ask what the hell your post about exports and middle men had to do with welfare alternatives? Lol sorry I just couldn't put two and two together forgive my ignorance. GAIA? I get the Infrastructure part though.

Quote:

sending them off overseas so we can buy products back at valued added to the middle men is one of the world's greatest lies, and in reality benefits neither the Third World workforces and populations (they are actually disadvantaged in some ways) nor ours.

I've got a couple of queries about this part.
Are you suggesting that exporting goods to countries does not allow us to import goods that use those resources cheaper to the benefit of all? My good Sir Grappler, do you not know how many countries are involved in the production of a single pencil, that allows it to be cheaply made and with a high supply for all?

Also when talking about third world work forces if we look at both China and I think places in Africa, those that work in factories or sweat shops are infinitely better off then those that don't. For example there's a video explaining how a woman in a certain country can earn 3-7 times more at a sweatshop then in the other parts of that countries economy.

Furthermore the people in China are able to go from starving in Paddy fields, to working in factories that allows them to educate their children and lift their families out of poverty. It's only though this education paid for by these factory jobs that the lower class children can have a higher degree of social mobility. Free trade when done properly benefits all.

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