Australian Politics Forum - No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.

Bam

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #30 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 11:57am

cods wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 9:11am:

Quote:

Welfare groups and the National Union of Students have criticised the Youth Allowance as being too low for young people in cities to live outside the family home, and delaying the age of independence. Sad

Maree O’Halloran, from the National Welfare Rights Network, said young adults should not have to wait until they were 25 to be granted independence from their parents. “There are already many proposed budget cuts which will hit students and unemployed young people, and this one is particularly short-sighted,’’ she said. “The parental means test for Youth Allowance hits families with incomes over $48,000. The reality is many parents will struggle to support adult children financially, the result being hardship all round.”

do you think its the tax payers job to help people leave home????????

It is if they have no parents.

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #31 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 11:59am

No shame for Swiss jobless: an insider's look

When I lost my job in Zurich three months ago, I felt like the world was collapsing around me. I felt inadequate and angry, and had a sense of shame about becoming unemployed in a foreign country.

And I was also fearful of registering with the regional unemployment centre.

In England, where I come from, such places mean only three things: futility, shame and demoralisation. My own brief experience of the system in the UK was demeaning: my university degree in modern languages seemed to mean nothing to my advisor, who suggested I apply for jobs like shelf-stacking.

I will also never forget one woman telling me that after arriving too early for her appointment, she was ordered to wait outside in the cold — despite having a toddler in tow.

No prejudice towards expats

As well as providing accident insurance, the RAV makes sure that unemployed people are entitled to receive 70 to 80 per cent of their previous salary (according to personal circumstances and up to a maximum of 126,000 francs annually) from the Arbeitslosenkasse (unemployment fund).

There is also scarce prejudice towards you if you are not Swiss. “My RAV consultant spoke to me in English and was always extremely helpful and positive,” one unemployed expat, a sales manager, tells me.

“One of the first things he said was, 'I am here to support you, not to control you.

At the end of the day, being unemployed is never pleasant. But Switzerland's social security system is making it bearable for me.   With the average person leaving the RAV after less than eight months, it certainly seems the system is working.

http://www.thelocal.ch/20130619/no-shame-for-switzerlands-jobless-an-insiders-lo...

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longweekend58

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #32 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 12:06pm

Grendel wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 11:49am:

True Blue... wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 11:30am:

talking with one of my Year 12 students recently, we recalled some of the deadbeats who used to go on our bus to school...

they left, or got booted out, of schools by year 9 or 10 and all they have ever achieved is to move out of their homes and fill out the dole forms...

the student said to me that they are still losers on the dole who have never worked a day in their lives...

why should the Australian tax payer pay for these bludgers?

why should they be footing the bill subsiding their rent?

its time to stop this gravy train madness... Angry

yet apart from the odd dead person due to drugs some so-called no-hopers from my school ended up;
1/ Being a self employed IT professional.
2/ Running his own very successful pest control company.
3/ Being the head Nurse at the local hospital.
4/ Leaving the Army as a Sergeant in the Engineers and running his own business.
just to name a few. Wink

how someone is at 17 is unlikely to be remotely what they are like at 40. we had some real duds at school who have done great while some with a lot of promise have not gone all that well.

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Vuk11

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #33 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 12:56pm

Quote:

TOUGH new “learn or earn” rules that will deprive all people younger than 25 from receiving the general unemployment payment and push them onto the lower-paying Youth Allowance are set to be unveiled in the federal budget.

Okay seriously I am full Voluntaryist and am 100% against state mandated Welfare as a concept, but that is one of the dumbest f*ck*ng moves I have ever heard of......I've lived off Youth Allowance it's not pretty.

People are complaining about Newstart and the Aged Pension....try living off $70-200 a fort night less. If they think this will force "lazy youths" into work they're dead wrong because there is no work!

Hundreds applying for the same jobs and employers are now cycling Employees for their free government subsidized wages of $5,000/$6,000 after that they discard them and cycle in the next long term unemployed shmuck.

Punishing people in poverty and forcing them even further into poverty is NOT the way to tackle the welfare problem!

If they can't get on Newstart there aren't as many tax funded TAFE courses any more either how are they supposed to get qualifications to get meaningful employment? Not just that but the severe lack of unskilled work available too and the Minimum wage stopping those 21+ from being competing....

Quote:

The government will pitch the change as a measure to force young people into training for “real jobs”.

HOW?!

Quote:

Healthcare and welfare will be the federal budget’s key targets for long-term fiscal reform.

Yeah good but that's not the way to tackle it....durr let's milk a rock!

Quote:

Australia is facing a youth unemployment crisis amid an explosion in the number of young people actively looking for a job and living on welfare payments.

The audit commission called this week for a new rule to tackle youth unemployment by forcing young single people aged 22-30, without dependants or special exemptions, to move to areas of higher employment or lose access to benefits after 12 months on the dole.

Hmmm that's interesting, though is forcing people really necessary when they're already in budget suburbs along train lines? ...and if they aren't accepted for a tenancy agreement what then? Cut their payments?

Quote:

The commission has also called for those older than 60 who are on working-age payments including Newstart, the Widow Allowance and Sickness Allowance to receive payment cuts. People older than 60 currently receive higher rates of assistance.

Why? Just to reach a surplus?
Now I'm starting to agree with the left on this one...economically illiterate, yeah and how much wealth fare have they lined up?

F*ck*ng big government parties, just implement a negative income tax you chicken sh*ts!

I feel pretty lucky I don't have to deal with this sh*t anymore, poor kids being punished for what? Angry

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Vuk11

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #34 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 1:01pm

Quote:

Maree O’Halloran, from the National Welfare Rights Network, said young adults should not have to wait until they were 25 to be granted independence from their parents.

...and those that don't have the option of living with family? It's not even about independence it's actually more about survival for them.

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Vuk11

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #35 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 1:05pm

cods wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 9:10am:

I think one of the main things is to stop the entitlement we are breeding..young people think its a natural, if they dont work centrelink will send them enough to get by on...it isnt right.. it should not be accepted as normal..

Exactly!
They need to be focussing on making the subsequent generations more independent and responsible as well as their families, but punishing people already in poverty does nothing to solve the issue.

Quote:

if you get something from the govt then you shoul.d have to give something back.. and if that means educating yourself so be it..

I can't stand the governments hypocrisy though, Distance education is cheaper, more flexible and more widely available and yet the current system punishes people for trying to go on it....

Quote:

it is time volunteer work in a lot of instances was a paid job... for instance meals on wheels..it can be a part time job..its just a thought... but when we have generations of people getting paid NOT to work. I cannot see them volunteering in the future to work for nothing..

Yeah and you have the current system of work for the dole which is a colossal failure, not to mention this new precedent of employers hiring the unemployed only for their free $5-6,000 subsidized wages and then dropping their hours so another free employee can come in.

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john_g

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #36 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 1:52pm

Well at least they're not scrapping uni you allowance.

My son is at uni learning to get a good job, and he and others like him deserve every bit of youth allowance that they get.

Apart from that, is anyone really surprised?

Abbott and Hockey clearly don't cafe about the poor, unemployed and vulnerable in society, neither does the rest of the Liberal party, and Labor party for that matter.

Glad I didn't vote for either last election, and probably will never do so again.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75893 Gender:	Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn. Reply #37 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 1:54pm john_g wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 1:52pm: Well at least they're not scrapping uni you allowance. don't be so sure ... budget hasn't come out yet!
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john_g

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #38 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 1:57pm

John Smith wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 1:54pm:

john_g wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 1:52pm:

Well at least they're not scrapping uni you allowance.

don't be so sure ... budget hasn't come out yet! Wink

Well signs are that they aren't going to, but i wouldn't be surprised if they do one day.

Neither of the two major parties cares about anyone but themselves.

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Grappler Truth Teller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 86361 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn. Reply #39 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 2:03pm Right there - all they care about is their bottom lines and their schoolyard ideologies that are supposed to give everyone a good life... In Iran they sent such types to the wall daily in hundreds....... Allah was good to those who were wronged thus.....
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Pantheon Gold Member Offline Woke Posts: 1256 Gender:	Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn. Reply #40 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 2:34pm As a 20 year old on the Dole...i actually support it, its nice but its has stopped me going out and finding a job, i mean why would i haha, i have my own flat, tv, internet, foxtel etc.. i can spend all say playing games drinking with friends and get paid xD
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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #41 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 3:47pm

Pantheon wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 2:34pm:

As a 20 year old on the Dole...i actually support it, its nice but its has stopped me going out and finding a job, i mean why would i haha, i have my own flat, tv, internet, foxtel etc.. i can spend all say playing games drinking with friends and get paid xD

All that on $200 a week? good budgeting!

Ahovking for Treasurer!!!

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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Grendel

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #42 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 4:01pm

Bam wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 11:57am:

cods wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 9:11am:

Quote:

Welfare groups and the National Union of Students have criticised the Youth Allowance as being too low for young people in cities to live outside the family home, and delaying the age of independence. Sad

Maree O’Halloran, from the National Welfare Rights Network, said young adults should not have to wait until they were 25 to be granted independence from their parents. “There are already many proposed budget cuts which will hit students and unemployed young people, and this one is particularly short-sighted,’’ she said. “The parental means test for Youth Allowance hits families with incomes over $48,000. The reality is many parents will struggle to support adult children financially, the result being hardship all round.”

do you think its the tax payers job to help people leave home????????

It is if they have no parents.

Personally I don't think there is some right that children have that says, you must be able to leave home by....
I think they leave home when they are kicked out or choose to.

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Grendel

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #43 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 4:08pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 11:59am:

No shame for Swiss jobless: an insider's look

When I lost my job in Zurich three months ago, I felt like the world was collapsing around me. I felt inadequate and angry, and had a sense of shame about becoming unemployed in a foreign country.

And I was also fearful of registering with the regional unemployment centre.

In England, where I come from, such places mean only three things: futility, shame and demoralisation. My own brief experience of the system in the UK was demeaning: my university degree in modern languages seemed to mean nothing to my advisor, who suggested I apply for jobs like shelf-stacking.

I will also never forget one woman telling me that after arriving too early for her appointment, she was ordered to wait outside in the cold — despite having a toddler in tow.

No prejudice towards expats

As well as providing accident insurance, the RAV makes sure that unemployed people are entitled to receive 70 to 80 per cent of their previous salary (according to personal circumstances and up to a maximum of 126,000 francs annually) from the Arbeitslosenkasse (unemployment fund).

There is also scarce prejudice towards you if you are not Swiss. “My RAV consultant spoke to me in English and was always extremely helpful and positive,” one unemployed expat, a sales manager, tells me.

“One of the first things he said was, 'I am here to support you, not to control you.

At the end of the day, being unemployed is never pleasant. But Switzerland's social security system is making it bearable for me.   With the average person leaving the RAV after less than eight months, it certainly seems the system is working.

http://www.thelocal.ch/20130619/no-shame-for-switzerlands-jobless-an-insiders-lo...

Sounds good Pansi thanks for the article. Will look further into it.

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John Smith

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #44 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 4:42pm

Grendel wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 4:08pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 11:59am:

No shame for Swiss jobless: an insider's look

When I lost my job in Zurich three months ago, I felt like the world was collapsing around me. I felt inadequate and angry, and had a sense of shame about becoming unemployed in a foreign country.

And I was also fearful of registering with the regional unemployment centre.

In England, where I come from, such places mean only three things: futility, shame and demoralisation. My own brief experience of the system in the UK was demeaning: my university degree in modern languages seemed to mean nothing to my advisor, who suggested I apply for jobs like shelf-stacking.

I will also never forget one woman telling me that after arriving too early for her appointment, she was ordered to wait outside in the cold — despite having a toddler in tow.

No prejudice towards expats

As well as providing accident insurance, the RAV makes sure that unemployed people are entitled to receive 70 to 80 per cent of their previous salary (according to personal circumstances and up to a maximum of 126,000 francs annually) from the Arbeitslosenkasse (unemployment fund).

There is also scarce prejudice towards you if you are not Swiss. “My RAV consultant spoke to me in English and was always extremely helpful and positive,” one unemployed expat, a sales manager, tells me.

“One of the first things he said was, 'I am here to support you, not to control you.

At the end of the day, being unemployed is never pleasant. But Switzerland's social security system is making it bearable for me.   With the average person leaving the RAV after less than eight months, it certainly seems the system is working.

http://www.thelocal.ch/20130619/no-shame-for-switzerlands-jobless-an-insiders-lo...

Sounds good Pansi thanks for the article. Will look further into it.

Norway has a similar system ... I believe it's 100% of your wage for the first 6 months, 80% for the next 6 months, and after that you're on your own.

I guess given the temperature extremes over there they have to do something to support all the tradesmen etc that can't do their jobs in the -30 to -40 degee temps.

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