Australian Politics Forum - No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.

longweekend58

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #45 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 5:04pm

Vuk11 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 1:01pm:

Quote:

Maree O’Halloran, from the National Welfare Rights Network, said young adults should not have to wait until they were 25 to be granted independence from their parents.

...and those that don't have the option of living with family? It's not even about independence it's actually more about survival for them.

they have the options of study or getting a job. or staying at home. why should the govt provide a third non-working option?

do you know that generations before this one never got the dole after leaving school? or youth allowance or student allowance? we just got jobs or stayed at home. or both.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Vuk11

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #46 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 5:24pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 5:04pm:

they have the options of study or getting a job. or staying at home. why should the govt provide a third non-working option?

This is one thing that pisses me off, they should be studying you're right but this Liberal government is punishing, interrogating and attacking people that choose to do distance education which is cheaper, more flexible and more widely available. If they said "sure Distance education will be treated the same as any other face to face form of education" I wouldn't be up in arms over it.

Quote:

do you know that generations before this one never got the dole after leaving school? or youth allowance or student allowance? we just got jobs or stayed at home. or both.

That's what I argue for, opportunity and a shift in mentality/responsibility but punishing people already in poverty/welfare doesn't really help that compared to working on the upcoming generations before they have a chance to get trapped into welfare.

It just seems like they want to squeeze the youth and put this lazy label on them when they aren't even addressing the issues of hundreds of people applying for every unskilled position and the total lack of opportunity.

If they can't pass the right legislation and also get rid of the Carbon/Mining taxes then all attacking the youth will do is make them worse off.

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Lobo

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #47 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 6:53pm

I'm all for our youth, and not so 'youth', earning and/or learning.

In saying that, two questions have to be taken into consideration.

1....Where are all the jobs?

2....Why are TAFE courses being cancelled and tutors retrenched??

Better make that 3 questions....

How can some youngster, straight out of school, afford the exorbitant fees now charged by the TAFEs for the courses that are still existant???

Wink

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"What's in store for me in the direction I don't take?"-Jack Kerouac.

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Vuk11

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #48 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:05pm

Lobo wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 6:53pm:

1....Where are all the jobs?

Manufacturing was a major source of Min. wage jobs, but that has decreased, foreign students have flooded many remaining factories I would love to know the specifics of why) and there is too much burden on small business to utilize all of the unemployed youth. Get out of their way I say and let the market flow like water as it tries to, allow labour to flow to where the demand is and allow there to actually be some demand in the first place instead of throttling it!

Quote:

How can some youngster, straight out of school, afford the exorbitant fees now charged by the TAFEs for the courses that are still existant???

Wink

If unskilled positions were plentiful enough to scoop up the unskilled labour floating around, they would find it easy to afford TAFE and even Uni, especially with the increase in Distance education. As I've said before it's cheap, flexible and widely available but the government is so far behind it actually punishes people for pursuing it!

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longweekend58

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #49 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:29pm

Lobo wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 6:53pm:

I'm all for our youth, and not so 'youth', earning and/or learning.

In saying that, two questions have to be taken into consideration.

1....Where are all the jobs?

2....Why are TAFE courses being cancelled and tutors retrenched??

Better make that 3 questions....

How can some youngster, straight out of school, afford the exorbitant fees now charged by the TAFEs for the courses that are still existant???

Wink

part-time jobs. just like every other graduate in the country from 20+ years ago. no youth allowance, no welfare. we just studied and worked.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Lobo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7407 Sydney Gender:	Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn. Reply #50 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:36pm So, I take it you are saying... 1...There aren't any! 2...No answer...don't know? (Neither do I, but it's not a good move.) 3...They can't! What I would really like is for Abbott, or Hockey, to answer these three questions, but that sure ain't gonna happen....
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Lobo

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #51 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:37pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:29pm:

Lobo wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 6:53pm:

I'm all for our youth, and not so 'youth', earning and/or learning.

In saying that, two questions have to be taken into consideration.

1....Where are all the jobs?

2....Why are TAFE courses being cancelled and tutors retrenched??

Better make that 3 questions....

How can some youngster, straight out of school, afford the exorbitant fees now charged by the TAFEs for the courses that are still existant???

Wink

part-time jobs. just like every other graduate in the country from 20+ years ago. no youth allowance, no welfare. we just studied and worked.

How many do you have on offer???

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"What's in store for me in the direction I don't take?"-Jack Kerouac.

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longweekend58

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #52 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:44pm

Lobo wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:37pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:29pm:

Lobo wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 6:53pm:

I'm all for our youth, and not so 'youth', earning and/or learning.

In saying that, two questions have to be taken into consideration.

1....Where are all the jobs?

2....Why are TAFE courses being cancelled and tutors retrenched??

Better make that 3 questions....

How can some youngster, straight out of school, afford the exorbitant fees now charged by the TAFEs for the courses that are still existant???

Wink

part-time jobs. just like every other graduate in the country from 20+ years ago. no youth allowance, no welfare. we just studied and worked.

How many do you have on offer???

why don't you ask fast food places. coles woollies, factories and all the other places students have worked in for decades past.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 108986 Melbourne Gender:	Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn. Reply #53 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:46pm Hey Longy, have you got a job for Crook? he'll accept your usual wages - $12,000 a week for water training.
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Vuk11

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #54 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:47pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:44pm:

why don't you ask fast food places. coles woollies, factories and all the other places students have worked in for decades past.

Sorry they're full.
The minimum wage makes sure anyone 21+ does not get work at those places unless previously experienced, even then there are hundreds applying for each position.

Then we have casual work problems where I know work is going back towards full-time/part-time however government subsidized wages of the unemployed guarantee a continuous cycling of the unemployed and not permanent employment, just exploitation for their pretty little $5,000 subsidized wage tag.

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Lobo

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #55 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:47pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:44pm:

Lobo wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:37pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:29pm:

Lobo wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 6:53pm:

I'm all for our youth, and not so 'youth', earning and/or learning.

In saying that, two questions have to be taken into consideration.

1....Where are all the jobs?

2....Why are TAFE courses being cancelled and tutors retrenched??

Better make that 3 questions....

How can some youngster, straight out of school, afford the exorbitant fees now charged by the TAFEs for the courses that are still existant???

Wink

part-time jobs. just like every other graduate in the country from 20+ years ago. no youth allowance, no welfare. we just studied and worked.

How many do you have on offer???

why don't you ask fast food places. coles woollies, factories and all the other places students have worked in for decades past.

I'm not looking for one.

I guess your answer means that you don't have any jobs on offer.

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"What's in store for me in the direction I don't take?"-Jack Kerouac.

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Lobo

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #56 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:50pm

Vuk11 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:47pm:

[quote author=longweekend58 link=1399071807/52#52 date=1399110250]
why don't you ask fast food places. coles woollies, factories and all the other places students have worked in for decades past.

Sorry they're full.
The minimum wage makes sure anyone 21+ does not get work at those places unless previously experienced, even then there are hundreds applying for each position.

Then we have casual work problems where I know work is going back towards full-time/part-time however government subsidized wages of the unemployed guarantee a continuous cycling of the unemployed and not permanent employment, just exploitation for their pretty little $5,000 subsidized wage tag.[/quote]

You noticed that as well.....

Wink

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"What's in store for me in the direction I don't take?"-Jack Kerouac.

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john_g

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #57 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:58pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 5:04pm:

Vuk11 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 1:01pm:

Quote:

Maree O’Halloran, from the National Welfare Rights Network, said young adults should not have to wait until they were 25 to be granted independence from their parents.

...and those that don't have the option of living with family? It's not even about independence it's actually more about survival for them.

they have the options of study or getting a job. or staying at home. why should the govt provide a third non-working option?

do you know that generations before this one never got the dole after leaving school? or youth allowance or student allowance? we just got jobs or stayed at home. or both.

What about people who have studied and can't get a job?

Thousands of students study hard and just can't find work.

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crocodile Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6683 Gender:	Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn. Reply #58 - May 3^rd, 2014 at 8:37pm I haven't noticed swathes of businesses closing because they can't find staff. Likewise, there is no current evidence of a wage breakout while employers bid up the price of workers with demand outstripping supply. The only conclusion is that the jobs are simply not there.
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fractalign

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Re: No Dole Before 25 - Youth Have To Earn Or Learn.
Reply #59 - May 4^th, 2014 at 10:39am

Apparently young people are old enough to work and pay taxes, vote, study, drive, die in another country serving this one, drink smoke and gamble but if they want to move out of home, they better make sure they have a job first.

How delaying the right to receive unemployment benefits until the age of 25 will empower young people is beyond me.

The days of guaranteed jobs are a relic of the 70's so young people really have few choices. All the most menial jobs that would otherwise go to the young and low skilled workers are automatically filled by 457 workers.

With this being the case it can be almost impossible at times for young people to find work. We have gone from a first world nation where the government subsidised industries which employed hundreds of thousands to one to one where all these jobs are being out sourced, the few remaining jobs are being filled with foreign workers and everybody else not employed is being screwed over.

What does the government do to remedy this situation ? scrap the 457 visa ? turn the spotlight on the employer's discriminatory hiring practices ? invest in and expand education services ? NO, NO and NO. Never one for admitting that they may be in some way contributing to rising unemployment they choose instead to blame the unemployed themselves.

Under Labour hundreds of thousands of single mothers joined the dole que, Under the coalition hundreds of thousands of auto manufacturers are set to do the same ! Its heartless governments out to save money which are responsible for the rise in unemployment over the last 12 months. Its time they owned up to this crime and stopped blaming the global economy, the Australian dollar, market force dynamics or any other thing they can think of. Their responsibility should be in insuring jobs remain in this country rather than penalising the very people who will one day be expected to lead this country.

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