Australian Politics Forum - Disability Support Pensioners to be crucified

Kat

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Re: Disability Support Pensioners to be crucified
Reply #15 - May 11^th, 2014 at 3:19pm

Lord Herbert wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 12:18pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 12:04pm:

Yep - based on the backyard wisdom that there are all these 'bludgers' out there copping Disability for nothing.

Do you reckon any of the same name-callers would say that about our Veteran community and those in it on pensions?

They wouldn't have the guts.

At a very conservative guess I'd say at least 10% on DSP are fraudsters. Maybe more.

And why? Because they broadened the scope to include 'back-ache', 'depression', etc. ~ both conditions that are highly exploitable if you can find a doctor to sign you off on it.

There are over 8,000 ethnic-Australians living 'back home' overseas who are in receipt of the DSP ... and if more than half of them are not on a rort ~ I'll eat my hat.

Bullshit 'compo' rorts and DSP fraud have been a cottage industry ever since the factories and building sites filled up with 'New Australians' from the mid-50's.

I'd say more like 2 or 3%. If that.

And no, it's not as simple as turning up with a certificate from a 'friendly' doctor, and hasn't been for a long time.

I'm not denying that there are rorters, of course there are. There always have been, and likely always will be.

But their numbers, like those of the largely mythical 'dole bludger' have been, and are being deliberately inflated
and exaggerated in an attempt to ensure that Joe Public regards all recips as such and thus feels no sympathy for
them when the cuts and punitive measures are brought in, and will instead enthusiastically welcome the persecution.

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Disability Support Pensioners to be crucified Reply #16 - May 11^th, 2014 at 4:28pm Bobby. wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 2:05pm: Your racism is forgiven. namaste Thank you, Bobby. I'll be able to sleep tonight.
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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Disability Support Pensioners to be crucified Reply #17 - May 11^th, 2014 at 4:31pm Bobby. wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 10:09am: What about fruit picking ? - you don't need a degree to do that. Nobody should be picking on fruits. Homophobia is a thing of the past.
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ian

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Re: Disability Support Pensioners to be crucified
Reply #18 - May 11^th, 2014 at 4:51pm

Kat wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 3:19pm:

I'm not denying that there are rorters, of course there are. There always have been, and likely always will be.

But their numbers, like those of the largely mythical 'dole bludger' have been, and are being deliberately inflated
and exaggerated in an attempt to ensure that Joe Public regards all recips as such and thus feels no sympathy for
them when the cuts and punitive measures are brought in, and will instead enthusiastically welcome the persecution.

simple observation skills would tell you the rorting is enormous, people in wheelchairs have trouble getting disabled parking spots because of all the able bodied people with disability parking permits. Next time you are at a shopping centre stake out the disabled parking bays for half an hour, I doubt you will see one person who doesnt appear perfectly abled. I have done this myself a few times and Herbert is right, the majority are eastern european looking and perfectly able bodied. The disability pension has been rorted for decades by these professionals, time to put an end to this madness,

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Disability Support Pensioners to be crucified
Reply #19 - May 11^th, 2014 at 4:54pm

bogarde73 wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 3:16pm:

As I understand it, the retesting of DSP claimants is going to be limited to those under 35. This is all still speculation of course.

If you've got a weak stomach like Bobby, shut your ears now.
It is well known that there is a plague of false DSP claims among the middle eastern community, BUT many if not most of these will be in the age group above 35. So how is this going to help?

Very good point.

bogarde73 wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 3:16pm:

Oh, and how do they make false claims? They have got doctors in their pocket, either through family ties, bribes or threats.

... Or simply because the doctors don't want themselves and their families to be ostracised from their community for being 'unhelpful'.

The magic figure '35' makes no sense unless it's not to jeopardise the ethnic vote among the aging DSP rorters, here and overseas.

It makes no sense that at 36 ... 46 ... 56 ... 64 ... DSP claimants who are judged able to work ~ don't have to. I was 65 when they finally said I didn't have to work any more.

Extraordinary contradictions and devious shenanigans going on here.

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: Disability Support Pensioners to be crucified Reply #20 - May 11^th, 2014 at 4:56pm Not hard to understand, minimise the outrage by limiting it to young people then when the system is firmly in place remove the age barrier. Good strategy.
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Lord Herbert

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Re: Disability Support Pensioners to be crucified
Reply #21 - May 11^th, 2014 at 5:03pm

ian wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 4:51pm:

Kat wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 3:19pm:

I'm not denying that there are rorters, of course there are. There always have been, and likely always will be.

But their numbers, like those of the largely mythical 'dole bludger' have been, and are being deliberately inflated
and exaggerated in an attempt to ensure that Joe Public regards all recips as such and thus feels no sympathy for
them when the cuts and punitive measures are brought in, and will instead enthusiastically welcome the persecution.

simple observation skills would tell you the rorting is enormous, people in wheelchairs have trouble getting disabled parking spots because of all the able bodied people with disability parking permits. Next time you are at a shopping centre stake out the disabled parking bays for half an hour, I doubt you will see one person who doesnt appear perfectly abled. I have done this myself a few times and Herbert is right, the majority are eastern european looking and perfectly able bodied. The disability pension has been rorted for decades by these professionals, time to put an end to this madness,

Only the day before yesterday I walked down my main street and saw all the Usual Suspect DSP rorters partying as usual in the local cafes. I've seen the same score of faces for years.

I call them The Untouchables. I don't think one of them is an ethnic. I would quite literally pay them $20 to hear their story ~ how in God's name they've managed to avoid work for all these years.

My guess is ...

1) 'Depression'
2) 'Bi-Polar Disorder'
3) 'Alcoholic' (although I've never seen any of them drunk).
4) 'Prone to self-harm'.
5) 'Chronic back pain'

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« Last Edit: May 11^th, 2014 at 5:09pm by Lord Herbert »

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: Disability Support Pensioners to be crucified Reply #22 - May 11^th, 2014 at 5:41pm The only people who should be on disability pensions are those confined to wheelchairs. if Abbott keeps this up I might be forced to vote for him next election.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Disability Support Pensioners to be crucified
Reply #23 - May 11^th, 2014 at 6:50pm

ian wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 4:51pm:

Kat wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 3:19pm:

I'm not denying that there are rorters, of course there are. There always have been, and likely always will be.

But their numbers, like those of the largely mythical 'dole bludger' have been, and are being deliberately inflated
and exaggerated in an attempt to ensure that Joe Public regards all recips as such and thus feels no sympathy for
them when the cuts and punitive measures are brought in, and will instead enthusiastically welcome the persecution.

simple observation skills would tell you the rorting is enormous, people in wheelchairs have trouble getting disabled parking spots because of all the able bodied people with disability parking permits. Next time you are at a shopping centre stake out the disabled parking bays for half an hour, I doubt you will see one person who doesnt appear perfectly abled. I have done this myself a few times and Herbert is right, the majority are eastern european looking and perfectly able bodied. The disability pension has been rorted for decades by these professionals, time to put an end to this madness,

Ian - I have a disability parking sticker..... I used to cover miles on foot by day and night.... now the requirement is the ability to cover a certain number of metres without developing pain etc....

I develop pain and shortness of breath after about twenty metres at fast walk.... and that could be chest pain or pain from any number of injuries.... pain is a constant only moderated by my personal guts... I LOOK good when I leap from the car, but I'm a bloke - I will not show pain unless it is near death....

Again - like getting that pension at all, it is NOT as simple as some make it sound and many with serious arthritic problems have good days and bad days, same as spinal injuries of which I have three...

Far easier for the tabloid media to cherry pick the one good day out of four or five and say "this person is on disability!"

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Disability Support Pensioners to be crucified
Reply #24 - May 11^th, 2014 at 6:55pm

Oh - and I'm on aged pension in a month, and I've already made it clear to my support team that, despite my disabilities (fifteen), I would prefer to work full-time for two-three years more.... IF I can get it.

After that I have ongoing plans... but never you mind - it's MY business venture....

ALSO (Sprache Zarathustra?) - I heard on the wahless that the idea was to look at the YOUNGER recipients of DSP for re-training etc... MIGHT be a chance for some in that, and I'm certain that many would be happy to accept a full-time job if they could get one.

One of our Colonel C'Link lasses has terrible spinal injuries from a horse accident - she works full-time and more power to her.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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austranger

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Re: Disability Support Pensioners to be crucified
Reply #25 - May 11^th, 2014 at 8:02pm

         I'm on the dis'p too, have been for 10years, and I too won't let it show if I can avoid it, not from pride really, I just get sick of all the false sympathy, when you know damn well they're not interested at all.
         I cant walk 10ft before my hip and knee(broken in a m/c accident 35yrs ago) begin to scream at me, I need a cane in winter. I do not have a parking ticket because I know how many more there are out there who need those spots more than me, that IS a matter of pride I suppose.
      My spine was fractured in four places and,well basically I smashed my entire right side and a fair bit of the left, but I've worked ever since my recovery rather than go on the P', I worked at the Sallies once I was on it and had it suspended, it wasn't physical work but I felt guilty getting it while I could still work.
            Now I can't, it's that simple, but if you saw me you might wonder why I'm on it, pain isn't readily visible you know, and I refuse to give in to it as much as I can.
   My point is that just because YOU can't see any obvious disability it doesn't mean there isn't one.
   Considering the hoops most have to jump through to get on it I doubt there's that many fakers, a simple Doc's certificate is only enough to put in an application, there's a lot more to it after that.
   Calling out FAKER and claiming there's a lot is the same, roughly, as calling the unemployed all bludgers, entirely unsupportable in reality.

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Kat

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Re: Disability Support Pensioners to be crucified
Reply #26 - May 11^th, 2014 at 8:09pm

ian wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 4:51pm:

Kat wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 3:19pm:

I'm not denying that there are rorters, of course there are. There always have been, and likely always will be.

But their numbers, like those of the largely mythical 'dole bludger' have been, and are being deliberately inflated
and exaggerated in an attempt to ensure that Joe Public regards all recips as such and thus feels no sympathy for
them when the cuts and punitive measures are brought in, and will instead enthusiastically welcome the persecution.

simple observation skills would tell you the rorting is enormous, people in wheelchairs have trouble getting disabled parking spots because of all the able bodied people with disability parking permits. Next time you are at a shopping centre stake out the disabled parking bays for half an hour, I doubt you will see one person who doesnt appear
perfectly abled. I have done this myself a few times and Herbert is right, the majority are eastern european looking and perfectly able bodied. The disability pension has been rorted for decades by these professionals, time to put an end to this madness,

And there's the thing... they appear to be perfectly able-bodied.

But appearances can be, and often are, deceptive. Yes, it's fairly obvious if one has limbs missing or is in
a cast.

But there are more invisible disabilities than visible ones. Can you 'see' cancer? Or MS? A tumour? PTSD?
A bad heart or liver? Osteoporosis? Can you 'see' mental illnesses such as depression, schizophrenia, bi-
polarism? Minor brain damage or nerve damage due to an accident?

Of course not! But are these people less disabled (or not disabled at all) simply because you can't 'see'
the disability?

Again, of course not.

I myself have a partial disability (not bad enough to justify the DSP, and no, I've never tried to claim it) in
that I have serious issues with my knees due to old sporting injuries compounded by a motorcycle accident
when I was in my 20s. It's pretty easy to spot IF you know me well, but you couldn't tell just by watching
me get out of a car. And yes, it does have an effect on what type of work I can do (tiling floors kills me).

To claim that someone is pulling a rort simply because they don't appear disabled is a bit silly,
really. It's like the popular but erroneous view, held by one or two here, that if you are on the dole it means
you have never worked or looked for work, and will never work or look for work. Or that all single mums
have five kids to five guys and only do it for the SP benefit and the baby bonus. Doesn't matter that the facts
don't bear the claims out. Of course these people exist, but their numbers are miniscule in comparison to
genuine recips. They are by no means representative of every DSP recip, dole recip or single-mum.

Your response to my post, taken together with some of the other comments I see here, only appear to
reinforce what I said above concerning the de-sensitisation of Joe Public to measures savaging DSP/dole
recips/single mums by tarring them all with the 'unworthy' tag, and that it is working, and working well.
People seem to be all too willing to believe that most are bludging or rorting, and that none are deserving
at all.

And God help anyone who tries to convince them otherwise, they'll just be tossed into the stereotype mix
as well, regardless.

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« Last Edit: May 11^th, 2014 at 8:15pm by Kat »

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Kat

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Re: Disability Support Pensioners to be crucified
Reply #27 - May 11^th, 2014 at 8:20pm

austranger wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 8:02pm:

I'm on the dis'p too, have been for 10years, and I too won't let it show if I can avoid it, not from pride really, I just get sick of all the false sympathy, when you know damn well they're not interested at all.
I cant walk 10ft before my hip and

knee

(broken in

a m/c accident 35yrs ago

) begin to scream at me, I need a cane in winter. I do not have a parking ticket because I know how many more there are out there who need those spots more than me, that IS a matter of pride I suppose.
      My spine was fractured in four places and,well basically I smashed my entire right side and a fair bit of the left, but I've worked ever since my recovery rather than go on the P', I worked at the Sallies once I was on it and had it suspended, it wasn't physical work but I felt guilty getting it while I could still work.
            Now I can't, it's that simple, but if you saw me you might wonder why I'm on it, pain isn't readily visible you know, and I refuse to give in to it as much as I can.
   My point is that just because YOU can't see any obvious disability it doesn't mean there isn't one.
   Considering the hoops most have to jump through to get on it I doubt there's that many fakers, a simple Doc's certificate is only enough to put in an application, there's a lot more to it after that.
   Calling out FAKER and claiming there's a lot is the same, roughly, as calling the unemployed all bludgers, entirely unsupportable in reality.

Mate, you have my deepest sympathy on that one, as I'm in exactly the same boat (or is that bike) myself.

The sawbones told me then (1983) that I could expect a bit of 'curry' from it as I grew older, and he sure wasn't whistling 'Dixie'.

Re your final sentence, please refer to my preceding post.

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: Disability Support Pensioners to be crucified Reply #28 - May 11^th, 2014 at 8:32pm If you can walk and have all your limbs you dont deserve a disability parking permit. Lots of people have constant pain. we would all be on disability if that was the only criteria. whinging self entitled wankers. Only have to look at this thread to see the whole problem in this country.
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austranger

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Re: Disability Support Pensioners to be crucified
Reply #29 - May 11^th, 2014 at 8:46pm

Mine was in 1978, and they told me:

:You'll never work again (I'd smashed my hand as well as all the rest)
:Even if you can learn to walk properly (dubious) you'll be in a wheelchair by 40
:You'll be lucky to live far beyond 50 due the internal damage you've done.

I've beaten every single one of those predictions, in Spades! Wink

i AM going downhill now, but that's all the more reason to fight and have fun, enjoy my grandson and the achievements of my kids, and the sole reason for my Sig" below, I used that back in the day to resist depression, and it sorta worked too, lol. Wink

Some days it was hard to find a smile, so I achieved a Black-Belt, 7th Dan in bad jokes and puns, which coincidentally led years later to the kids favourite saying.."Dad, you're an idiot"! Grin

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