Australian Politics Forum - Rolf facing the music

ian

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #315 - Jun 4^th, 2014 at 10:20am

cods wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2014 at 9:50pm:

so what do you call someone who fiddles with a TEENAGER GIRL.... what name do you have for them??...you are claiming a 13 yr old is the same as a 19yr old arent you as they are all teens..

Im not claiming anything other than there is a huge diofference between a pedophile and someone who has an attraction to teenagers, we have laws dealing with pedophile behaviour and we also have laws dealing with predatory behaviour towards under age teenagers, they are different laws with different penalties for good reason.

Quote:

and you wouldnt mind a 20 yr old man taking out your 13 yr old daughter I gather???...

you would be quite trusting of him I am sure.

you wouldnt think for one moment he was a paedophile..

just someone who liked teenage girls.

No, I wouldnt think he was a pedophile.

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mantra

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #316 - Jun 4^th, 2014 at 10:25am

Quantum wrote on Jun 4^th, 2014 at 9:59am:

If they are 13 then it is not paedophilia. Just because someone doesn't approve of such behaviour does not make it something else. If a 50 year old man was to have sex with a 13 year old girl then a crime has been committed, but it is not paedophilia.

There is a huge difference between being sexual attracted to children, and someone being attracted to a young person who is post puberty. Our society has constructed an age limit that makes Adult to under 16/18 an issue, but this line has moved over the years and is not consistent across the western world.

It is beyond insanity to think that if a female is 17 years and 364 days old that she cant be attractive to a grown man, but within 24 hours she will suddenly become sexually attractive and that will be ok. All the curves are exactly the same 1 day before 18 compared to 1 day after 18, why the hell would she not be attractive to a grown man? (A "grown man" being anyone 18+).

Your use of the word paedophilia would make every single straight male in Australia guilty of being one. Every straight male has been attracted to a girl under 18 at sometime, even when they themselves may have been over the age of 18.

All true. Most males - as Herbert pointed out are discreet, a few not so. The indiscreet males are the ones who offend females.

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: Rolf facing the music Reply #317 - Jun 4^th, 2014 at 10:35am flip
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Black Orchid

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #318 - Jun 4^th, 2014 at 1:16pm

ian wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2014 at 6:17pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

ian wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2014 at 10:19am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2014 at 8:30am:

I'll grant you that what a man paints at his easel in his own home in private is no one's business but his own ~ decent or not.

But ... with Harris it adds more pieces to the jig-saw puzzle. It lends credibility to his accusers.

.

Actually Herbert, it makes the case even more complexing. Pedophiles have an attraction to young prepubescent children, if he is one that would have been his focus. Instead we are hearing allegations of indecent assault from all ages including adults, it doesnt fit.

He's an unwelcome groper.

And forget the dictionary: If a fully grown adult male is getting his jollies off by lying in bed with a 14 year old girl ~ that's paedophilia. Spin it any way you like ~ it's a hairy adult in bed with a child.

No its not Herbert, pedophilia is an attraction to pre pubescent children. It may be a hairy adult in bed with a young teenager, but its not pedophilia. Unwelcome groping of teenagers is also not peodophilia.

Not all girls have reached puberty by 13/14.

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cods

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #319 - Jun 5^th, 2014 at 6:39am

Quantum wrote on Jun 4^th, 2014 at 9:59am:

cods wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2014 at 9:50pm:

ian wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2014 at 7:43pm:

cods wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2014 at 6:53pm:

[

so what is it then???..

paedophile RINGS are mostly just that RINGS that go around the world... videos..showing all young children...all for the delight of men who are sitting in front of a computer..they pay highly for this material of course....

the children involved pay an even higher price .

but why are they called paedophiles...and someone who actually puts his hands on children without permission....is called

A>WHAT exactly?

Im not sure why this is hard to understand, pedophilia is the attraction to pre pubescent children. even slightly retarded people should be able to grasp this simple concept, a teenager is not a pre pubescent child.

so what do you call someone who fiddles with a TEENAGER GIRL.... what name do you have for them??...you are claiming a 13 yr old is the same as a 19yr old arent you as they are all teens..

and you wouldnt mind a 20 yr old man taking out your 13 yr old daughter I gather???...

you would be quite trusting of him I am sure.

you wouldnt think for one moment he was a paedophile..

just someone who liked teenage girls.

If they are 13 then it is not paedophilia. Just because someone doesn't approve of such behaviour does not make it something else. If a 50 year old man was to have sex with a 13 year old girl then a crime has been committed, but it is not paedophilia.

There is a huge difference between being sexual attracted to children, and someone being attracted to a young person who is post puberty. Our society has constructed an age limit that makes Adult to under 16/18 an issue, but this line has moved over the years and is not consistent across the western world.

It is beyond insanity to think that if a female is 17 years and 364 days old that she cant be attractive to a grown man, but within 24 hours she will suddenly become sexually attractive and that will be ok. All the curves are exactly the same 1 day before 18 compared to 1 day after 18, why the hell would she not be attractive to a grown man? (A "grown man" being anyone 18+).

Your use of the word paedophilia would make every single straight male in Australia guilty of being one. Every straight male has been attracted to a girl under 18 at sometime, even when they themselves may have been over the age of 18.

I have an old saying quantum

AND THAT IS

LAWS ARE MADE BY MAN WITH MEN IN MIND...

say it slowly..

all laws are made by men...

men did not make the little children or the teenagers...

they just made laws and put certain words into gear

maybe you guys need to talk to police that work in child porn and see just what levels paedophiles go too.....you do seem to think they all think alike

do you think a lot of children do not mature before the age of 13?????????????......

why do you think a lot of paedos go to Lombok because they mature earlier over there...

you want to split hairs over a girl of 17 + 364 days..

.whats the difference in a girl 12 + 364 days...

you are making drama out of a word..

in my book I know exactly what I would call someone if he touched my daughter... at 12. and 364 or 13 and 1 day... it would be the same thing..

to each his own I wouldnt dare argue with a male who is in charge of not only making the laws but interpreting them I will leave it with you.

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cods

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #320 - Jun 5^th, 2014 at 6:40am

Black Orchid wrote on Jun 4^th, 2014 at 1:16pm:

ian wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2014 at 6:17pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

ian wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2014 at 10:19am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2014 at 8:30am:

I'll grant you that what a man paints at his easel in his own home in private is no one's business but his own ~ decent or not.

But ... with Harris it adds more pieces to the jig-saw puzzle. It lends credibility to his accusers.

.

Actually Herbert, it makes the case even more complexing. Pedophiles have an attraction to young prepubescent children, if he is one that would have been his focus. Instead we are hearing allegations of indecent assault from all ages including adults, it doesnt fit.

He's an unwelcome groper.

And forget the dictionary: If a fully grown adult male is getting his jollies off by lying in bed with a 14 year old girl ~ that's paedophilia. Spin it any way you like ~ it's a hairy adult in bed with a child.

No its not Herbert, pedophilia is an attraction to pre pubescent children. It may be a hairy adult in bed with a young teenager, but its not pedophilia. Unwelcome groping of teenagers is also not peodophilia.

Not all girls have reached puberty by 13/14.

and some do at 10/11....

but mentally they havent matured...but the men have... but that doesnt mean a thing... this is all about a word. Roll Eyes

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Gnads

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #321 - Jun 5^th, 2014 at 7:38am

ian wrote on Jun 4^th, 2014 at 10:20am:

cods wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2014 at 9:50pm:

so what do you call someone who fiddles with a TEENAGER GIRL.... what name do you have for them??...you are claiming a 13 yr old is the same as a 19yr old arent you as they are all teens..

Im not claiming anything other than there is a huge diofference between a pedophile and someone who has an attraction to teenagers, we have laws dealing with pedophile behaviour and we also have laws dealing with predatory behaviour towards under age teenagers, they are different laws with different penalties for good reason.

Quote:

and you wouldnt mind a 20 yr old man taking out your 13 yr old daughter I gather???...

you would be quite trusting of him I am sure.

you wouldnt think for one moment he was a paedophile..

just someone who liked teenage girls.

No, I wouldnt think he was a pedophile.

I have been exactly in that situation with my own daughter when she was 14 & he was 21.(20 years ago) I went to Police ... was told it was very difficult to bring to court as it was consensual & she would/could become a hostile witness & it would further embarrass her publicly if he were charged with carnal knowledge. I was advised to sort him out & not leave any marks on his face......

well I couldn't catch the slippery bastard ..... but I hounded him at every opportunity for 6 months ... until he left town.

I'd still bash him today.

So to me the case of this relationship with Rolf which supposedly went on until the woman was 29 ... was consensual ... first off not right if she was under age .... Rolf denies she was under age when it first happened .....
& now it's all about the money.

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True Blue...

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #322 - Jun 5^th, 2014 at 7:47am

Quote:

Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger. As a medical diagnosis, specific criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13.[1][2][3][4] A person who is diagnosed with pedophilia must be at least 16 years of age, but adolescents who are 16 years of age or older must be at least five years older than the prepubescent child before the attraction can be diagnosed as pedophilia.

over the past 8 years I've worked with many many 13 year old girls....... and other boys/girls all the way to 18 year olds.. Year 12

the 13 year old boys and girls look like kids... they don't look like adults in any way and are not developed properly in any way..

if anyone suggests that they look like 18 year olds then they don't know what they are talking about in any way...

you get the odd one where they may be a bit bigger and a bit more developed but they are still mentally the same as a 13 year old..

the school children live in their own little world... cocooned from society and the realities of society on the whole... its a whole other world compared to the adult working world...

they have no interest in the outside world until later on and when they are showing off or dressing up etc its towards their peers ... not anyone in the outside world of adults..

however... there are acceptations..

but not generally..

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cods

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #323 - Jun 5^th, 2014 at 8:03am

True Blue... wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 7:47am:

te:
Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger. As a medical diagnosis, specific criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13.[1][2][3][4] A person who is diagnosed with pedophilia must be at least 16 years of age, but adolescents who are 16 years of age or older must be at least five years older than the prepubescent child before the attraction can be diagnosed as pedophilia.

over the past 8 years I've worked with many many 13 year old girls....... and other boys/girls all the way to 18 year olds.. Year 12

the 13 year old boys and girls look like kids... they don't look like adults in any way and are not developed properly in any way..

if anyone suggests that they look like 18 year olds then they don't know what they are talking about in any way...

you get the odd one where they may be a bit bigger and a bit more developed but they are still mentally the same as a 13 year old..

the school children live in their own little world... cocooned from society and the realities of society on the whole... its a whole other world compared to the adult working world...

they have no interest in the outside world until later on and when they are showing off or dressing up etc its towards their peers ... not anyone in the outside world of adults..

however... there are acceptations..

but not generally..

that my take on it

is a paedos only other problem "attraction"??... or does it go further.. touchy feely??? we know if its sex what they are....

as a psychiatric disorder.. I presume there is a treatment even a cure??? Roll Eyes

some seem to be saying that as long as the child was over 13 then it is ok for touchy feely because that isnt paedophilia....

its just it would have been prudent had he asked permission.....then its consensual..

we can only guess the girls were dressed provocatively Roll Eyes

as thats another fault from the childs position..its their fault if they look older after all.

cant really expect blokes to keep their hands to themselves can we? it isnt natural. Angry

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Sophia

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #324 - Jun 5^th, 2014 at 9:40am

Gnads wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 7:38am:

ian wrote on Jun 4^th, 2014 at 10:20am:

cods wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2014 at 9:50pm:

so what do you call someone who fiddles with a TEENAGER GIRL.... what name do you have for them??...you are claiming a 13 yr old is the same as a 19yr old arent you as they are all teens..

Im not claiming anything other than there is a huge diofference between a pedophile and someone who has an attraction to teenagers, we have laws dealing with pedophile behaviour and we also have laws dealing with predatory behaviour towards under age teenagers, they are different laws with different penalties for good reason.

Quote:

and you wouldnt mind a 20 yr old man taking out your 13 yr old daughter I gather???...

you would be quite trusting of him I am sure.

you wouldnt think for one moment he was a paedophile..

just someone who liked teenage girls.

No, I wouldnt think he was a pedophile.

I have been exactly in that situation with my own daughter when she was 14 & he was 21.(20 years ago) I went to Police ... was told it was very difficult to bring to court as it was consensual & she would/could become a hostile witness & it would further embarrass her publicly if he were charged with carnal knowledge. I was advised to sort him out & not leave any marks on his face......

well I couldn't catch the slippery bastard ..... but I hounded him at every opportunity for 6 months ... until he left town.

I'd still bash him today.

So to me the case of this relationship with Rolf which supposedly went on until the woman was 29 ... was consensual ... first off not right if she was under age .... Rolf denies she was under age when it first happened .....
& now it's all about the money.

Totally irrelevant what that copper advised you about Gnads!
Doesn't matter, your daughter was a minor, and he being 21 or over, even if she was consensual, being the age she was, that's what laws are in place for (minors) to protect them and that's what parents roles are, to protect them.

I dare anyone to find out how the law deals with minors, and adults, that engage in sexual acitivities, and if a parent/guardian wants to press charges.

Come on, all the legal eagles here...put it in how the law deals with this, whether a minor was consensual or not.

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cods

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #325 - Jun 5^th, 2014 at 10:05am

Sophia wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 9:40am:

Totally irrelevant what that copper advised you about Gnads!
Doesn't matter, your daughter was a minor, and he being 21 or over, even if she was consensual, being the age she was, that's what laws are in place for (minors) to protect them and that's what parents roles are, to protect them.

I dare anyone to find out how the law deals with minors, and adults, that engage in sexual acitivities, and if a parent/guardian wants to press charges.

Come on, all the legal eagles here...put it in how the law deals with this, whether a minor was consensual or not.

very true in fact the parent could be charged with neglect... it probably wouldnt happen in todays society.. but none the less the law is there...and any girl under 16 is classed as a minor. there are a lot of girls as we see having sex very early having babies as well.. what happens to the father I do not know.. they seem to get away with murder.lets face it for every mother there has to be a father..

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Gnads Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 28966 Gender:	Re: Rolf facing the music Reply #326 - Jun 5^th, 2014 at 1:24pm You walk a mile in my shoes before you dare suggest that I should have been charged with neglect...... Sanctimonious twat.
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Quantum

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #327 - Jun 5^th, 2014 at 2:10pm

cods wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 6:39am:

Quantum wrote on Jun 4^th, 2014 at 9:59am:

cods wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2014 at 9:50pm:

ian wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2014 at 7:43pm:

cods wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2014 at 6:53pm:

[

so what is it then???..

paedophile RINGS are mostly just that RINGS that go around the world... videos..showing all young children...all for the delight of men who are sitting in front of a computer..they pay highly for this material of course....

the children involved pay an even higher price .

but why are they called paedophiles...and someone who actually puts his hands on children without permission....is called

A>WHAT exactly?

Im not sure why this is hard to understand, pedophilia is the attraction to pre pubescent children. even slightly retarded people should be able to grasp this simple concept, a teenager is not a pre pubescent child.

so what do you call someone who fiddles with a TEENAGER GIRL.... what name do you have for them??...you are claiming a 13 yr old is the same as a 19yr old arent you as they are all teens..

and you wouldnt mind a 20 yr old man taking out your 13 yr old daughter I gather???...

you would be quite trusting of him I am sure.

you wouldnt think for one moment he was a paedophile..

just someone who liked teenage girls.

If they are 13 then it is not paedophilia. Just because someone doesn't approve of such behaviour does not make it something else. If a 50 year old man was to have sex with a 13 year old girl then a crime has been committed, but it is not paedophilia.

There is a huge difference between being sexual attracted to children, and someone being attracted to a young person who is post puberty. Our society has constructed an age limit that makes Adult to under 16/18 an issue, but this line has moved over the years and is not consistent across the western world.

It is beyond insanity to think that if a female is 17 years and 364 days old that she cant be attractive to a grown man, but within 24 hours she will suddenly become sexually attractive and that will be ok. All the curves are exactly the same 1 day before 18 compared to 1 day after 18, why the hell would she not be attractive to a grown man? (A "grown man" being anyone 18+).

Your use of the word paedophilia would make every single straight male in Australia guilty of being one. Every straight male has been attracted to a girl under 18 at sometime, even when they themselves may have been over the age of 18.

I have an old saying quantum

AND THAT IS

LAWS ARE MADE BY MAN WITH MEN IN MIND...

say it slowly..

all laws are made by men...

men did not make the little children or the teenagers...

they just made laws and put certain words into gear

maybe you guys need to talk to police that work in child porn and see just what levels paedophiles go too.....you do seem to think they all think alike

do you think a lot of children do not mature before the age of 13?????????????......

why do you think a lot of paedos go to Lombok because they mature earlier over there...

you want to split hairs over a girl of 17 + 364 days..

.whats the difference in a girl 12 + 364 days...

you are making drama out of a word..

in my book I know exactly what I would call someone if he touched my daughter... at 12. and 364 or 13 and 1 day... it would be the same thing..

to each his own I wouldnt dare argue with a male who is in charge of not only making the laws but interpreting them I will leave it with you.

The problem is the word Paedophile is a word being chucked around in this thread when it is not appropriate. So far there has been no evidence that Rolf is a paedophile, nor is there any evidence that anyone who points out that he is not deemed to be a paedophile are somehow paedophile protectors. If you want to accuse him of anything then I guess you could call him a Hebephile as he has admitted to finding at least one 13 year old girl attractive. But he has not admitted to having touched her, nor has any actual evidence been presented that he did.

Quote:

AND THAT IS

LAWS ARE MADE BY MAN WITH MEN IN MIND...

say it slowly..

all laws are made by men...

Which is why this case is happening. Because no women would be brought to trial for having a relationship with a man aged 18-29, nor would she be called a paedophile because she thought a 13 year old boy was cute or handsome.

If you want to complain about laws being made by men then also accept that many laws and court decisions hold men to a higher standard in practice than they do women. Women have taken on more and more responsibility in society over the last 50 years, but in the courts this is still the dark ages when it comes to women facing the consequences for failing those responsibilities.

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cods

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #328 - Jun 5^th, 2014 at 5:34pm

Quantum wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 2:10pm:

Which is why this case is happening. Because no women would be brought to trial for having a relationship with a man aged 18-29, nor would she be called a paedophile because she thought a 13 year old boy was cute or handsome.

If you want to complain about laws being made by men then also accept that many laws and court decisions hold men to a higher standard in practice than they do women. Women have taken on more and more responsibility in society over the last 50 years, but in the courts this is still the dark ages when it comes to women facing the consequences for failing those responsibilities.

which planet are you from...many female school teachers are doing time for stepping over the line.....maybe you dont read the news as well as you should..

a famous case in America where the teacher had children to a 13 yr old.. Roll Eyes

how soon you forget...when it suits..

men used to be held more accountable.. but that has since long changed..women have been hung for murder..

the facts are MEN do make the laws... most of our LAWS are old and been there long before women even got the right to vote...

tell me how many women are in jail...

you dont know do you?

women roughly represent 7% of the prison population...

fortunately they dont go out Fri and Sat night on benders and belt each other up... YET....

but even you must admit that in the past booze was the excuse of many men doing the wrong thing.. and many men were excused because of the booze...

excuses for women.. I dont think so even women that have been abused for 25 years...when they finally kill the bastard do time..until you see a women that has been treated and threatened for a long time.by a person that is usually twice her size, its easy to judge...

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cods

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #329 - Jun 5^th, 2014 at 5:43pm

Quantum wrote on Jun 5^th, 2014 at 2:10pm:

he problem is the word Paedophile is a word being chucked around in this thread when it is not appropriate. So far there has been no evidence that Rolf is a paedophile, nor is there any evidence that anyone who points out that he is not deemed to be a paedophile are somehow paedophile protectors. If you want to accuse him of anything then I guess you could call him a Hebephile as he has admitted to finding at least one 13 year old girl attractive. But he has not admitted to having touched her, nor has any actual evidence been presented that he did.

not sure if I have called Rolf a paedo??....and at the end of the day its not my place to call him anything.. he has been charged with " Indecent Assault"

May 28 (Reuters) - Veteran Australian entertainer Rolf Harris groomed and psychologically dominated a 13-year-old girl before repeatedly sexually abusing her, a British court was told on Wednesday.

A mainstay of family television entertainment for decades, Harris is charged with 12 counts of indecent assault against four girls, some as young as seven or eight, between 1968 and 1986. Seven of the counts relate to one woman.

Harris, who denies all the charges, told the jury on Tuesday he had been in a relationship with the woman, but that this had started when she was 18, not 13, and that it had been an adult and consensual affair.

"This was not a consensual relationship, this was child abuse. Grooming. You effectively psychologically dominated that girl," Prosecutor Sasha Wass said, addressing the 84-year-old, in the dock at London's Southwark Crown Court.

we didnt charge him with anything...how people see someone is just an opinion..you cannot command anyone to think differently to yourself..thats a fact....

are they on sex offender lists will Rolf be on one if he is found guilty...I wouldnt know...all I know is a lot of people would be thinking the worst of him....they dont care what the law calls it.. these girls were under age...I am almost positive they would not have realised they were being assaulted at the time..especially if they were 7 or 8.

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