Australian Politics Forum - Rolf facing the music

sherri

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #360 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 7:28am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 5:45am:

Dearest Emma,

I, for one, am simply not in a position to know the mind of the witnesses, but I find it bizarre that all these apparently public episodes in front of other people occurred, and yet remained unnoticed,

I don't think they all did. Apparently he had a reputation in the entertainment industry and that can only be because someone, somewhere saw or heard something and passed it on to a friend etc[

Where are the media/entertainment etc people present or involved in or near an episode or 'in the know' who 'covered it up'? Are they flooding forward to say they knew all along but said nothing? Surely not all would be so in fear of their job etc now as to not come forward? Surely there are many who would now come forward and offer substantial evidence rather than 'he had a reputation'.

Are you kidding? Absolutely no way. For starters, there would be a lot of them (most of them) who heard it from other people. Why on earth would they think of going to the police? They have no direct evidence that can help, they would not associate themselves in any way with events.

Next up, you have a few who may have witnessed or who may have suffered unwanted groping.
If you were a witness, and you were in the industry, would you really like to come forward and say-yes, I saw inappropriate behaviour but didn't think to report it to anyone, I just gossiped about it?
The media has been full of righteousness the last year or two over others who did not report cases, there are people having to sit in enquiries now to answer why they didn't 'do something' when they had been told of cases (not even witnessed, just been told). Would you want to out yourself so that you were facing the same sort of wrath?
Make no mistake, whether he walks or not, Harris's career is over. Doesn't matter worth a cracker anyway as he is about 84 and probably semi retired in any case. He has made his money.
But others in the industry won't want their own names linked to this case.

As for the victims-young girls (and boys for that matter) are vulnerable. In the past especially, it would be embarrassing to talk about being groped. Even adult women felt that way. The radio star who wrote the bit in the paper that I read about, where she was groped, I doubt that would ever have seen the light of day had the case against Harris not hit the courts. In fact, she said so herself.

Harris is a high profile pest but I would assume just about every woman here on this forum would have been assaulted in some minor or major way during their life. As a teen, I can clearly remember a couple of upsetting incidents, right out in public, but sneaky so no one could see them. Did I tell anyone? No, I was mortified and I didn't know the men anyway.
I also believe convictions should be based on evidence, but I think in cases of sexual assault(especially from years ago) it can be hard to come by that evidence.
It doesn't mean it didn't happen though.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 82846 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Rolf facing the music Reply #361 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 7:46am **Kick starts page...
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #362 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 7:55am

sherri wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 7:28am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 5:45am:

Dearest Emma,

I, for one, am simply not in a position to know the mind of the witnesses, but I find it bizarre that all these apparently public episodes in front of other people occurred, and yet remained unnoticed,

I don't think they all did. Apparently he had a reputation in the entertainment industry and that can only be because someone, somewhere saw or heard something and passed it on to a friend etc[

No - I'm NOT 'kidding'. Reputation is not proof...... we've discussed that. You have heard of hearsay evidence?

Where are the media/entertainment etc people present or involved in or near an episode or 'in the know' who 'covered it up'? Are they flooding forward to say they knew all along but said nothing? Surely not all would be so in fear of their job etc now as to not come forward? Surely there are many who would now come forward and offer substantial evidence rather than 'he had a reputation'.

Are you kidding? Absolutely no way. For starters, there would be a lot of them (most of them)[color=#0000ff] who heard it from other people

. Why on earth would they think of going to the police? They have no direct evidence that can help, they would not associate themselves in any way with events.

Next up, you have a few who may have witnessed or who may have suffered unwanted groping.
If you were a witness, and you were in the industry, would you really like to come forward and say-yes, I saw inappropriate behaviour but didn't think to report it to anyone, I just gossiped about it?
The media has been full of righteousness the last year or two over others who did not report cases, there are people having to sit in enquiries now to answer why they didn't 'do something' when they had been told of cases (not even witnessed, just been told). Would you want to out yourself so that you were facing the same sort of wrath?
Make no mistake, whether he walks or not, Harris's career is over. Doesn't matter worth a cracker anyway as he is about 84 and probably semi retired in any case. He has made his money.
But others in the industry won't want their own names linked to this case.

As for the victims-young girls (and boys for that matter) are vulnerable. In the past especially, it would be embarrassing to talk about being groped. Even adult women felt that way. The radio star who wrote the bit in the paper that I read about, where she was groped, I doubt that would ever have seen the light of day had the case against Harris not hit the courts. In fact, she said so herself.

Harris is a high profile pest but I would assume just about every woman here on this forum would have been assaulted in some minor or major way during their life. As a teen, I can clearly remember a couple of upsetting incidents, right out in public, but sneaky so no one could see them. Did I tell anyone? No, I was mortified and I didn't know the men anyway.
I also believe convictions should be based on evidence, but I think in cases of sexual assault(especially from years ago) it can be hard to come by that evidence.
It doesn't mean it didn't happen though.[/color]

I appreciate your post, and I see your points about difficulty in obtaining evidence - fortunately/unfortunately that is why we have Law at all - otherwise people would be counted in their millions up to their necks in bull ant nests.... in the hot sun.... coated with honey... and just because Billy or Janie said they did something....

We need to be VERY careful about removing what thin protection Law actually provides. Read my stuff on the use of Law as an extension of (civil) war by other means, as occurred in the Anti-Irish Laws and the laws (lows?) proscribing Highland Dress etc post-Jacobite Rebellion...

Unfortunately Law in the wrong hands can be used as a weapon against the innocent and for purposes for which it was never designed... and we need to be eternally vigilant over the thin veil of protection it uses to hide what is, in effect, systematic abuse of the individual far too often.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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sherri

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #363 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 8:10am

Oh, I agree about the law and about the need for evidence, not just hearsay.

I doubt Harris will be convicted, mainly because the woman continued a relationship with him into her adult years, so there could be that element of doubt.

But.. personally, I suspect he has been guilty of a lot of sleazy behaviour. Maybe thought that because he was 'someone' he could get away with it. And it worked, he did. Sleazy men (and women) are a dime a dozen but those who target younger people are contemptible in my opinion, because they are exerting their adult power, it is not a level playing field. We ask kids to be respectful towards adults, but it needs to go both ways.
He should have left his hands off young girls and it is a shame no adult female ever rounded on him and humiliated him in public but I bet he would have denied it, claimed any touch was an 'accident'.

All that counts for nothing in a court, I realise that. There needs to be proof before a conviction and I wouldn't want to change that in any way.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #364 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 8:16am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jun 7^th, 2014 at 7:09am:

My suspicion is that he will be found not guilty, or will win on appeal.

Not a chance.

No judge or jury would be stupid enough to contradict the evidence from the four witnesses, and those others who have had stories to tell about him from their own experience.

The verdict will be he was always a self-serving sexual creep who used to 'walk his fingers' around female bodies instead of sniffing bicycle seats and 'snowdropping' women's knickers off backyard clothes-lines like others do.

His reputation has been shattered for all of eternity. He has been brought lower than a snake's belly in the public eye.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #365 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 8:25am

sherri wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 8:10am:

He should have left his hands off young girls and it is a shame no adult female ever rounded on him and humiliated him in public but I bet he would have denied it, claimed any touch was an 'accident'.

He's already tried to excuse his creepy behaviour by saying he's always been a 'touchy-feely' sort of person.

He's been showing himself to be a manipulator of people's sympathies in the worst sense.

He's tried winning over the court with singing and clowning to get them on-side and in a forgiving mood.

An unremorseful creep who has not the slightest concern for how a life-time of sleezy behaviour impacted upon his victims.

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red baron Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10204 Blue Mountains Gender:	Re: Rolf facing the music Reply #366 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 8:33am It is a very, very sad way to finish your life when in another area you have brought so much joy so many people, alas when people think of you Rolf, once you depart this mortal coil; they will think of a predator who preyed on the innocent.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #367 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 8:36am

sherri wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 8:10am:

Oh, I agree about the law and about the need for evidence, not just hearsay.

I doubt Harris will be convicted, mainly because the woman continued a relationship with him into her adult years, so there could be that element of doubt.

But.. personally, I suspect he has been guilty of a lot of sleazy behaviour. Maybe thought that because he was 'someone' he could get away with it. And it worked, he did. Sleazy men (and women) are a dime a dozen but those who target younger people are contemptible in my opinion, because they are exerting their adult power, it is not a level playing field. We ask kids to be respectful towards adults, but it needs to go both ways.
He should have left his hands off young girls and it is a shame no adult female ever rounded on him and humiliated him in public but I bet he would have denied it, claimed any touch was an 'accident'.

All that counts for nothing in a court, I realise that. There needs to be proof before a conviction and I wouldn't want to change that in any way.

I totally agree with you - I strongly suspect he has had his peccadilloes (where is Greg BTW?), and I'm almost certain in my own mind that he's done a few things - people often do when they have 'power' etc.... 'mana' or whatever it is.

It's just that we need to be very careful of witch hunts.... a good comparison considering what was done to many women (and men) in the past on suspicion or fear or superstition or hearsay.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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cods

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #368 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 8:50am

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 5:58am:

Gary Glitter joins the band of alleged sex offenders.

Glitter, 70, whose real name is Paul Gadd, became the first person to be arrested as part of Operation Yewtree, the national investigation launched in the wake of abuse claims against Jimmy Savile, when he was held at his home in central London in October 2012.
He was later released on police bail, which was extended in March this year.

"Having completed our review, we have concluded, in accordance with the Code for Crown Prosecutors, that there is sufficient evidence and it is in the public interest for Mr Gadd to be charged with eight offences under the Sexual Offences Act 1956."

The charges relate to two female complainants who were aged between 12 and 14 at the time of the alleged offending between 1977 and 1980.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/gary-glitter-to-be-charged-with-eight-sex-offences-a...

two complaints amazing...this bloke was thrown out of Thailand.[i believe it was].should be locked up for the rest of his life.... but it wont happen will it?

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cods

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #369 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 8:56am

red baron wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 8:33am:

It is a very, very sad way to finish your life when in another area you have brought so much joy so many people, alas when people think of you Rolf, once you depart this mortal coil; they will think of a predator who preyed on the innocent.

this is more about saving his fortune I am thinking..his daughter has made it pretty obvious she is doing what she is doing to protect her inheritance dont want to sound bitchy about that.. because I am sure I would do the same thing...I have noticed the daughter never looks at him..in fact the whole bunch look bitter..

he thought he was untouchable to use a pun..we dont after all know how many complaints the received only those they used...

I doubt very much it was only 4.. but all that aside he wont go to jail thats for sure..probably a massive fine, damages..who knows..either way he must have lost a fortune and will he be welcome in places where children are involved... hardly.

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Amadd

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #370 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 9:56am

..and so, after all considerations, you still have Cods, Herbert, Baron..et al saying that he will always be remembered as a kiddy fiddler.
Why have a court case at all? He was already tried and convicted in a large percentage of the public's eyes the moment the story broke.

It seems the biggest piece of evidence is that he lied about being at the university, where a television presenter who was at the same event testified that she didn't know that she was at a university either.

I'd imagine that where there's smoke there's fire, however, he must have held quite a bit of admiration for a "said" victim to carry on an 11yr relationship after supposedly being abused. Not saying it can't happen, but if it did, as an adult she must've acted very irresponsibly by carrying on a relationship with him.

You don't want to discourage people who are victims of abuse coming forward, but also people can't be tried retrospectively for what was fairly average social behaviour at the time regarding the witnesses who were adults.
Nowadays, a wolf whistle can land somebody in court or make them unemployable. Times have changed and people are poo scared, just as the government would have you be.

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Gnads

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #371 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 10:01am

Amadd wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 9:56am:

..and so, after all considerations, you still have Cods, Herbert, Baron..et al saying that he will always be remembered as a kiddy fiddler.
Why have a court case at all? He was already tried and convicted in a large percentage of the public's eyes the moment the story broke.

It seems the biggest piece of evidence is that he lied about being at the university, where a television presenter who was at the same event testified that she didn't know that she was at a university either.

I'd imagine that where there's smoke there's fire, however, he must have held quite a bit of admiration for a "said" victim to carry on an 11yr relationship after supposedly being abused. Not saying it can't happen, but if it did, as an adult she must've acted very irresponsibly by carrying on a relationship with him.

You don't want to discourage people who are victims of abuse coming forward, but also people can't be tried retrospectively for what was fairly average social behaviour at the time regarding the witnesses who were adults.
Nowadays, a wolf whistle can land somebody in court or make them unemployable. Times have changed and people are poo scared, just as the government would have you be.

And isn't that proof of how ridiculous things have become. Ask a girl out too many times & you're a stalker or it's sexual harrassment Roll Eyes

Proof by accusation & heresay is no proof at all.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #372 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 11:45am

red baron wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 8:33am:

It is a very, very sad way to finish your life when in another area you have brought so much joy so many people, alas when people think of you Rolf, once you depart this mortal coil; they will think of a predator who preyed on the innocent.

His one saving grace is that he wasn't into fiddling with boys.

(Yes, I know that's sexist)

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #373 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 11:58am

Amadd wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 9:56am:

..and so, after all considerations, you still have Cods, Herbert, Baron..et al saying that he will always be remembered as a kiddy fiddler.

He let his 'Fingers do the Walking' ... (or should that be Talking?). It's not just these specific cases that he'll be remembered for, but the fact that in the entertainment industry he was known as "The Octopus" for being a sexual creep whenever the opportunity presented itself.

A 'Dirty Old Man' will be his legacy.

Amadd wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 9:56am:

Why have a court case at all?

To get things on record. To turn whispered rumours, hints, and allegations into hard copy so there can be no denying by luvvie historians in future years.

Amadd wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 9:56am:

It seems the biggest piece of evidence is that he lied about being at the university,

The biggest piece of evidence has been those who knew him as friends, journalists, and interviewers finally feeling free to say what a creep he was.

***

I'll be interested to know how much he'll be left with after the compensation payments have been made ~ and all the lawyers fees have been paid off.

That just might knock the arrogant smile off his stupid wife's face.

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Amadd Gold Member Offline Mo Posts: 6217	Re: Rolf facing the music Reply #374 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 2:56pm That all sounds very assuming to me.
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