Australian Politics Forum - Rolf facing the music

Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #765 - Jun 29^th, 2014 at 2:16pm

Aussie wrote on Jun 29^th, 2014 at 1:52pm:

Quote:

How would YOU like to be convicted by a majority verdict knowing youa re innocent?

I'd be pissed orf if an unanimous decision meant I was convicted of an offence I did not commit.

These majority verdicts are a relatively recent thing ~ about six years old in Qld. I don't think it means an outcome is accepted if the majority is 7/5, either way. I think it may at most be 10/12 either way, but of that I'm not sure.

I heard here in NSW they wanted to be 11:1 - my view is that an lowering of the standards is an abrogation of legal rights, which are already more honoured in the breach then in the keeping, and thus would be a direct grab for yet more power and control over the general populace - who would increasing be made anew into 'created criminals' for control purposes.

Indeed we need a full review of laws - and of magistrates, judges and every other body involved in handling it on our behalf.

It is the sworn position of judges and magistrates to treat all equally before the law - the moment they see themselves as part of some mythical 'thin blue line' they are violating their own oath of office and have forfeited all rights and privileges to administer law.

The days of the redneck magistrate who treats every defendant as some guilty scum are long gone... and politicians need to get a firm grip on that or they will be going down with them.

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cods

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #766 - Jun 29^th, 2014 at 2:24pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jun 29^th, 2014 at 1:32pm:

Come back and argue the next time you are pinged for 'not wearing a seat belt' by a cop passing five lanes away on a six-laner at 110 km each way..... or are pinged - as my ex was - for doing 119 km/h at night when she drives slowly for wildlife while slowing down uphill on a bend to make a 90 degree turn to go home.. and then be accused by the same sleepy cop of trying to get away from him by turning off! Woke him up and startled him - or he was one of those crazies that should not be allowed out of the station - let alone in the police force.

NEVER defend police and courts to me - many of these are the greatest criminals in this country.

they are doing their JOB if she went on at 119 km at night and killed someone would you say the lazy sod wasnt doing his job he should have pulled her over?????,..,

in case you have forgotten you said it was at NIGHT which means the cop wouldnt know it was a women driving until he stood next to the car...

it could have been Neddy Smith...

you dont realise how lucky your ex was to be stopped before she killed herself or worse someone else...

as you claim 119ks is driving safe for wildlife who the hell are you kidding???

and I wonder what she does when she in a hurry.. Roll Eyes

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Rolf facing the music Reply #767 - Jun 29^th, 2014 at 5:00pm cods wrote on Jun 29^th, 2014 at 10:05am: will you stop posting up those pics...I am beginning to worry about you herb..you seem to have quite a collection of nasty... I mean he scares me.... I think sherri quite fancies him. Each to their own, I suppose ...
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Emma

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #768 - Jun 29^th, 2014 at 6:48pm

...it seems I find myself always trying to get some clear statements from people... and you know..? no reference here to you herbie..

the more obfuscation one encounters on pursuing a point .. the more one understands what degree of liar one is dealing with. [/quote]

You've cut me to the quick! I'm a LIAR now!

Oh well, I suppose I'll just have to Soldier on Regardless. Undecided

[/quote]

hey herbie.. I wasn't actually referring to you.. or any other specific posters... but if you think... 'the shoe .... fits....' and you're wearing it.. well I'm not disagreeing ... Grin

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Emma

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #769 - Jun 29^th, 2014 at 7:20pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jun 29^th, 2014 at 2:16pm:

I heard here in NSW they wanted to be 11:1 - my view is that an lowering of the standards is an abrogation of legal rights, which are already more honoured in the breach then in the keeping, and thus would be a direct grab for yet more power and control over the general populace - who would increasing be made anew into 'created criminals' for control purposes.

Indeed we need a full review of laws - and of magistrates, judges and every other body involved in handling it on our behalf.

It is the sworn position of judges and magistrates to treat all equally before the law - the moment they see themselves as part of some mythical 'thin blue line' they are violating their own oath of office and have forfeited all rights and privileges to administer law.

The days of the redneck magistrate who treats every defendant as some guilty scum are long gone... and politicians need to get a firm grip on that or they will be going down with them.

Agree big time. Look at the farce happening here in QLD.!!

People seem to be too poorly educated about how government and law operate in this Country.. to understand that this current Government is ANTI-LAW.

and it sure ain't happening properly OR lawfully, in Queensland, either. Both the State and Federal Governments have, IMO.. moved away from what is correct...... and damn us if we don't agree.

Sad..

I would suggest also.. that this break-down of Law and Order... promulgated and promoted by these governments will be the cause of much suffering for the Australian people, now and in the future.

What happens when all faith in Law and Justice disappears..??

.

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Rolf facing the music Reply #770 - Jun 29^th, 2014 at 8:40pm Emma wrote on Jun 29^th, 2014 at 6:48pm: hey herbie.. I wasn't actually referring to you.. or any other specific posters... but if you think... 'the shoe .... fits....' and you're wearing it.. well I'm not disagreeing ... Don't tempt me ....
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #771 - Jun 29^th, 2014 at 8:48pm

cods wrote on Jun 29^th, 2014 at 2:24pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jun 29^th, 2014 at 1:32pm:

Come back and argue the next time you are pinged for 'not wearing a seat belt' by a cop passing five lanes away on a six-laner at 110 km each way..... or are pinged - as my ex was - for doing 119 km/h at night when she drives slowly for wildlife while slowing down uphill on a bend to make a 90 degree turn to go home.. and then be accused by the same sleepy cop of trying to get away from him by turning off! Woke him up and startled him - or he was one of those crazies that should not be allowed out of the station - let alone in the police force.

NEVER defend police and courts to me - many of these are the greatest criminals in this country.

they are doing their JOB if she went on at 119 km at night and killed someone would you say the lazy sod wasnt doing his job he should have pulled her over?????,..,

in case you have forgotten you said it was at NIGHT which means the cop wouldnt know it was a women driving until he stood next to the car...

it could have been Neddy Smith...

you dont realise how lucky your ex was to be stopped before she killed herself or worse someone else...

as you claim 119ks is driving safe for wildlife who the hell are you kidding???

and I wonder what she does when she in a hurry.. Roll Eyes

cods - dearie... let me explain this to you - she was NOT doing 119 kmh - I was there and I am a retired professional driver and I check speedos all the time. I looked as she came up the hill and it was reading 99 - no more...

What party of 'coming up a hill, traveling at her usual 85 odd kph at night (she was on a highway at the time so a little bit closer to the SPEED LIMIT) since she is concerned over hitting a beastie at night, slowing to turn left ninety degrees to go home as a grandmother of 62' - do you NOT understand.

You just have to be a troll - nobody is that stupid.

The point is - dear cods - that if it came to a court fight - the court would find any excuse to find in favour of the insane cop on the site.

Do you get any idea of what tyranny really is yet? Or are you jsut going to sit there and pretend to be someone you most obviously are not?

It astounds me that 'women' who claim to be 'feminists' can sit there, use the 'law' to get their way in anything they want without reason or decency as long as it privileges THEM ONLY, and wail about 'oppression' - then have no idea what Oppression really is!

T R O L L!

No wonder society and life have been left in the hands of MEN for so long!

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Rolf facing the music Reply #772 - Jun 29^th, 2014 at 8:49pm err Okayyy ... Herbie ..uhhmmmmmmmmmmm do not feel in any way tempted ..please...!
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #773 - Jun 29^th, 2014 at 8:58pm

Emma wrote on Jun 29^th, 2014 at 7:20pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jun 29^th, 2014 at 2:16pm:

I heard here in NSW they wanted to be 11:1 - my view is that an lowering of the standards is an abrogation of legal rights, which are already more honoured in the breach then in the keeping, and thus would be a direct grab for yet more power and control over the general populace - who would increasing be made anew into 'created criminals' for control purposes.

Indeed we need a full review of laws - and of magistrates, judges and every other body involved in handling it on our behalf.

It is the sworn position of judges and magistrates to treat all equally before the law - the moment they see themselves as part of some mythical 'thin blue line' they are violating their own oath of office and have forfeited all rights and privileges to administer law.

The days of the redneck magistrate who treats every defendant as some guilty scum are long gone... and politicians need to get a firm grip on that or they will be going down with them.

Agree big time. Look at the farce happening here in QLD.!!

People seem to be too poorly educated about how government and law operate in this Country.. to understand that this current Government is ANTI-LAW.

and it sure ain't happening properly OR lawfully, in Queensland, either. Both the State and Federal Governments have, IMO.. moved away from what is correct...... and damn us if we don't agree.

Sad..

I would suggest also.. that this break-down of Law and Order... promulgated and promoted by these governments will be the cause of much suffering for the Australian people, now and in the future.

What happens when all faith in Law and Justice disappears..??

.

Everything the Nazis did was legal - having been approved by their appointed body to do so - the point here is....... (let that hang in the air for a very, very long time)...... nobody else accepted that it was legal... and they never will!

One of my fondest references is to the film 'Judgement at Nuremburg' - with Spencer Tracy and Burt Lancaster and others.....

The final scene is telling.... the Nazi judge (Burt Lancaster), condemned to death, asks for a chat with the American judge who condemned him...

He says in mitigation that he never really understood that what he did was wrong and what it would create to so many innocent victims.. he only acted in accordance with the law...

"I never knew.. I never knew it would lead to this!.. the concentration camps, the murders...you must understand this! I never thought it would come to this!"

The American judge (Spencer Tracy) replies:-

"It came to this the first time you condemned a man knowing he was innocent!"

Read and weep, pilgrims..... read and weep... we are in that place right now.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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ian

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #774 - Jun 29^th, 2014 at 8:59pm

Emma wrote on Jun 29^th, 2014 at 2:22am:

you'd know this is pure nonsense, how exactly..??

L

Do I? No... I don't see how that would work .. at least here.. you are saying..???

... a respondent can also be treated independently... as an eyewitness..in the same matter..??

I don't really see how that would work...
Perhaps possible if they were eye witness to some other alleged crime... but in their own matter..??

Do you see how confused you are .. Hmmm???
I replied to you as per all the above ...

and OK I should have said Complainant not Respondent ..

oops got confused..

BUT still how can a complainant also be an eyewitness to the offense..??? That IS nonsense...
A Complainant can give testimony ... but they are not eye witnesses..
definition of eyewitness..???

n. A person who has seen a particular event or act and can describe it, for example in Court.

DO you note it doesn't includes participants in the act.. ??

Your comprehension is lacking here... we seem to be incapable of understanding each other..

YOU seem to be saying each complainant (preferable to 'alleged victim' ) should be looked at as an individual matter, and no crossover evidence should be allowed, by other Complainants... because...???

Well thats what I thought you were saying... that they should not be able to give testimony,, as a sort of group,, but be examined individually.
I AM saying..all the complainants testimony should be heard as a whole...

Sorry if this is a bit beyond you.. you are remarkably one-eyed... Grin

you are compeltely clueless on this as on any other subject. I dont know why you come here to make yourself look retarded when you can go anywhere else.

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« Last Edit: Jun 29^th, 2014 at 10:40pm by ian »

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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Rolf facing the music Reply #775 - Jun 29^th, 2014 at 9:25pm you are compeltely clueless on this as on any other subject. I dont know why you come here to make yourself look retarded when you can go anywhere else. ( quote from IAN) so that is your reply..?? seems YOU r clueless... not me.. oh.. and I spell better than you too..!
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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Rolf facing the music Reply #776 - Jun 29^th, 2014 at 9:36pm see herbie..? Ian is the culprit.. says lots of stuff... but cannot argue the matter... can only try to be insulting... BUT IAN..??!! Achtung!! I look forward to any one thing you might like to say in defense of your position...
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #777 - Jun 29^th, 2014 at 11:05pm

Emma wrote on Jun 29^th, 2014 at 7:20pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jun 29^th, 2014 at 2:16pm:

I heard here in NSW they wanted to be 11:1 - my view is that an lowering of the standards is an abrogation of legal rights, which are already more honoured in the breach then in the keeping, and thus would be a direct grab for yet more power and control over the general populace - who would increasing be made anew into 'created criminals' for control purposes.

Indeed we need a full review of laws - and of magistrates, judges and every other body involved in handling it on our behalf.

It is the sworn position of judges and magistrates to treat all equally before the law - the moment they see themselves as part of some mythical 'thin blue line' they are violating their own oath of office and have forfeited all rights and privileges to administer law.

The days of the redneck magistrate who treats every defendant as some guilty scum are long gone... and politicians need to get a firm grip on that or they will be going down with them.

Agree big time. Look at the farce happening here in QLD.!!

People seem to be too poorly educated about how government and law operate in this Country.. to understand that this current Government is ANTI-LAW.

and it sure ain't happening properly OR lawfully, in Queensland, either. Both the State and Federal Governments have, IMO.. moved away from what is correct...... and damn us if we don't agree.

Sad..

I would suggest also.. that this break-down of Law and Order... promulgated and promoted by these governments will be the cause of much suffering for the Australian people, now and in the future.

What happens when all faith in Law and Justice disappears..??

.

The concepts of Law and Order are long-standing - and philosophically based. The question is:- Do you first establish Law and then use it too impose Order, or do you first establish Order and then impose Law.

There are problems with both approaches (are you my niece BTW? who was studying Criminology?))

If you first seek to impose Law, the exercise will be mainly futile... and run the risk of unconstrained vigilantism... itself an abrogation of the rule of Law....

If you first seek to impose Order, you run the risk of unconstrained vigilantism... and this may flow over into the machinery of government via Law and its agencies (police and courts) and generate not Order, but an unbalanced approach to Law that is in effect Disorder.... thus generating a further need for Law and thus an endless cycle downward into Hell - the Hell of a lack of GENUINE Law and Order - since the machineries of government themselves do not abide by the rules.

I have addressed this issue in my humble way here:-

https://sites.google.com/site/grappleruniversitypublications/home/legal-beagles/...

https://sites.google.com/site/grappleruniversitypublications/home/legal-beagles/...

https://sites.google.com/site/grappleruniversitypublications/home/legal-beagles/...

Oh, hell - HERE!

https://sites.google.com/site/grappleruniversitypublications/home/legal-beagles

https://sites.google.com/site/grappleruniversitypublications/home/department-of-...

https://sites.google.com/site/grappleruniversitypublications/home/department-of-...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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ian

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #778 - Jun 29^th, 2014 at 11:09pm

Emma wrote on Jun 29^th, 2014 at 9:25pm:

you are compeltely clueless on this as on any other subject. I dont know why you come here to make yourself look retarded when you can go anywhere else.
( quote from IAN)

so that is your reply..??

Huh

seems YOU r clueless... not me..

oh.. and I spell better than you too..! Grin

Lol. Lay off the booze you silly old witch.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Rolf facing the music
Reply #779 - Jun 29^th, 2014 at 11:11pm

"What happens when all faith in Law and Justice disappears..??"

“It is more important that innocence be protected than it is that guilt be punished, for guilt and crimes are so frequent in this world that they cannot all be punished. But if innocence itself is brought to the bar and condemned, perhaps to die, then the citizen will say, "whether I do good or whether I do evil is immaterial, for innocence itself is no protection," and if such an idea as that were to take hold in the mind of the citizen that would be the end of security whatsoever.”
― John Adams

'The power of government is abused and directed to an end for which it is not constituted when employed to promote rather than to detect crime and to bring about the downfall of those who, left to themselves, might well have obeyed the law. Human nature is weak enough and sufficiently beset by temptations without government adding to them and generating crime'.
Justice Felix Frankfurter, US Supreme Court.

'Whenever we leave principles and clear positive laws we are soon lost in the wild regions of imagination and possibility where arbitrary power sits upon her brazen throne and governs with an iron scepter' .
- John Adams, 2nd President of the United States.

Adams was referring to the British control over the United States... but the issue is current...

Frankfurter was referring to 'entrapment' - I extend that to the imposition of 'laws' that entrap as a matter of policy or ideology...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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