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About that "infidel tax" on halal products (Read 22603 times)
polite_gandalf
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Re: About that "infidel tax" on halal products
Reply #120 - Nov 24th, 2014 at 9:19pm
 
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Re: About that "infidel tax" on halal products
Reply #121 - Nov 24th, 2014 at 9:30pm
 
Gandalf do you still think Halal fees imposed by foreign-government-created monopolies in Australia is an example of market forces at work?
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polite_gandalf
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Re: About that "infidel tax" on halal products
Reply #122 - Nov 24th, 2014 at 9:47pm
 
no, and I never said it was.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: About that "infidel tax" on halal products
Reply #123 - Nov 24th, 2014 at 9:58pm
 
Gandalf you can barely tell the difference between a government dictating who can do business with who, and a company deciding for themselves under the influence of market forces.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 16th, 2014 at 7:58pm:
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2014 at 7:54pm:
The Indonesian government is neither supplier nor customer.


The Indonesian government are supplying halal certificates through their Australian subsidiaries.

The free market gives the customers the power to boycott the extortionists and either turn to a cheaper supplier or force their original supplier to supply at more reasonable prices - which seems to be exactly what happened.


polite_gandalf wrote on May 16th, 2014 at 7:24pm:
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2014 at 6:47pm:
The abbatoirs pay the tax.


Bingo! I think you're starting to get it!

Next step is to try and understand the abbattoirs are paying for a service - the service of having their meat halal certified, and opening themselves up to a much wider market. And as a consequence they are a) not inclined to pass the small certification cost to the consumer given that their new profit potential far outweighs the certification cost, and b) perfectly free to boycott the wannabe extortionists who foolishly want thousands of dollars for their halal certificates, when they can easily turn to the certifiers who charge just a couple of hundred.

Its called the free market - I believe we have been through this before.

And congratulations are in order - I think this was your first post in this thread without using the word taqqiya  Smiley


polite_gandalf wrote on May 16th, 2014 at 7:49pm:
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2014 at 7:32pm:
Does that sound like a free market to you?


Yep - text book free market, as I mentioned before.

Supplier attempts to extort their customer, customer responds by boycotting and (presumably) turning to a cheaper supplier. Extortioner loses. I believe we've been through this before.


polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 26th, 2014 at 7:31am:
freediver wrote on Feb 25th, 2014 at 10:11pm:
These stickers are being sold by one nation candidates. I think you can still buy them online. No government is forcing anyone to buy them (or giving businesses the "option" of paying tens of thousands of dollars for them or be barred from the market).


Actually, being "barred" from a market is not anti-capitalist - it is consistent with the free-market principle that a trader can trade with whomever they damn well please - with whatever conditions they please.


polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22nd, 2014 at 8:08pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2014 at 9:06am:
It is not a "textbook example of how capitalism is supposed to work" when businesses are forced out of a market (the one market they are in) by government intervention


Actually its the MUI that is being forced out of business - or at least forced to compromise. The Queensland abbatoirs who are boycotting are demonstrating their bargaining power, and either the MUI will relent and offer more reasonable terms, or the Australian producers will find a better deal elsewhere. Or in other words, exploiters will be punished - exactly as per classic free market theory

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polite_gandalf
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Re: About that "infidel tax" on halal products
Reply #124 - Nov 24th, 2014 at 10:02pm
 
Good FD, you've got all the quotes there - are you starting to understand what I actually said now?

I'll give you a clue:

Quote:
Supplier attempts to extort their customer, customer responds by boycotting and (presumably) turning to a cheaper supplier. Extortioner loses.


Do you remember the part of the story where the abattoirs boycotted the certifiers?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: About that "infidel tax" on halal products
Reply #125 - Nov 24th, 2014 at 10:06pm
 
That doesn't make it "free market forces at work" Gandalf. Customers can respond and refuse to buy things in a communist dictatorship also. There is no end to what Muslims will try to spin in order to justify these Halal money grubbing rorts.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: About that "infidel tax" on halal products
Reply #126 - Nov 24th, 2014 at 10:09pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 24th, 2014 at 9:30pm:
Halal fees imposed by foreign-government-created monopolies in Australia is an example of market forces at work?


As long as you understand the difference between claiming that  "Halal fees imposed by foreign-government-created monopolies in Australia is an example of market forces at work." and what I actually said.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: About that "infidel tax" on halal products
Reply #127 - Nov 25th, 2014 at 8:22am
 
Still not sure. Did you mean that companies losing business because they cannot afford the extortionist fees imposed by foreign-government created monopolies is in fact an example of free market forces at work?
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polite_gandalf
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Re: About that "infidel tax" on halal products
Reply #128 - Nov 25th, 2014 at 9:13am
 
I meant what I wrote - and what I wrote is self explanatory.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: About that "infidel tax" on halal products
Reply #129 - Nov 25th, 2014 at 12:49pm
 
It is transparently stupid, and you are clutching at straw to try to spin this extortion and it's unfortunate consequences off as "free market forces at work".
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|dev|null
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Re: About that "infidel tax" on halal products
Reply #130 - Nov 25th, 2014 at 1:19pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 25th, 2014 at 12:49pm:
It is transparently stupid, and you are clutching at straw to try to spin this extortion and it's unfortunate consequences off as "free market forces at work".


What "unfortunate consequences" flow from Halal certification in Australia, FD?   Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin
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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
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polite_gandalf
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Re: About that "infidel tax" on halal products
Reply #131 - Nov 25th, 2014 at 1:24pm
 
For crying out loud HB - can't you think for yourself?? sheesh
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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|dev|null
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Re: About that "infidel tax" on halal products
Reply #132 - Nov 25th, 2014 at 3:54pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 25th, 2014 at 1:24pm:
For crying out loud HB - can't you think for yourself?? sheesh


I know, me being a Bear of Little Brain is a burden on all around me...    Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy
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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
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Re: About that "infidel tax" on halal products
Reply #133 - Nov 25th, 2014 at 6:52pm
 
|dev|null wrote on Nov 25th, 2014 at 1:19pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 25th, 2014 at 12:49pm:
It is transparently stupid, and you are clutching at straw to try to spin this extortion and it's unfortunate consequences off as "free market forces at work".


What "unfortunate consequences" flow from Halal certification in Australia, FD?   Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin


In one post Gandalf argued that businesses boycotting the extortion arrangement - thereby losing business - is an example of free market forces at work. It's basically the same as saying that having a choice between going out of business and putting up with extortion means it isn't really extortion. A bit like previous Muslims saying that having a choice between keeping your mouth shut or getting your head chopped off is merely a slightly different take on freedom of speech.

This is how Muslims try to spin the actions of their fellow Muslims into something benign or good.
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Re: About that "infidel tax" on halal products
Reply #134 - Nov 25th, 2014 at 6:58pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 25th, 2014 at 6:52pm:
|dev|null wrote on Nov 25th, 2014 at 1:19pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 25th, 2014 at 12:49pm:
It is transparently stupid, and you are clutching at straw to try to spin this extortion and it's unfortunate consequences off as "free market forces at work".


What "unfortunate consequences" flow from Halal certification in Australia, FD?   Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin


In one post Gandalf argued that businesses boycotting the extortion arrangement - thereby losing business - is an example of free market forces at work. It's basically the same as saying that having a choice between going out of business and putting up with extortion means it isn't really extortion. A bit like previous Muslims saying that having a choice between keeping your mouth shut or getting your head chopped off is merely a slightly different take on freedom of speech.

This is how Muslims try to spin the actions of their fellow Muslims into something benign or good.


How is seeking Halal certification "extortion" whereas by implication, seeking Kosher certification isn't?

Do you have any evidence that Halal certification authorities, in Australia, are demanding that companies gain Halal certification and threatening them with some form of violence or something similar if they don't? 

"Extortion" implies some sort of threat FD.  It is a crime and reportable to Police.  If it is occurring, why isn't it being reported to Police?

Or are you allowing hyperbole to get the better of you because of your Islamophobia?    Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin
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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
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