Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 4 ... 9
Send Topic Print
What is the purpose of rules? (Read 2698 times)
The Mole
Gold Member
*****
Offline


http://www.ozpolitic
.co/album/forum-atta
chments/y

Posts: 1499
Gender: female
Re: What is the purpose of rules?
Reply #15 - May 19th, 2014 at 1:32pm
 
mantra wrote on May 19th, 2014 at 12:18pm:
Phemanderac wrote on May 19th, 2014 at 11:32am:
Sure, on the one hand it could be seen as me having a go here, however, I would (once again, respectfully) suggest that I am endeavouring to encourage some self reflection for all about behavioural standards. Whether or not moderators/admin want to promote and support that idea, make changes or leave things pretty much to look after themselves is totally up to those individuals.


It actually does appear that you're having a go at certain members and moderators, whilst demanding control yourself. That might not be intentional of course.

There are set rules in place, but as the moderators have said - often they have to make judgements on individual cases. A member can jokingly swear and another can say the same thing viciously with intention to insult - do they both get banned?

The moderators are only here on a voluntary basis. Perhaps if they were paid a healthy salary, they might be more pedantic in their approach to moderating. Meanwhile we should be happy with the way they are doing things. Generally they try to listen to the concerns of the members and that should be appreciated.



I agree with that.. they do have lives outside of this place and as adults we ought to try to be more tolerant of each other and sidestep idiots!

Of course there are persistent trolls and they should be just banned for their efforts until they wake up to themselves.
Back to top
 

"Why Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked over your grave"
 
IP Logged
 
Neferti
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 7965
Canberra
Gender: female
Re: What is the purpose of rules?
Reply #16 - May 19th, 2014 at 1:36pm
 
C'est la vie
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Neferti
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 7965
Canberra
Gender: female
Re: What is the purpose of rules?
Reply #17 - May 19th, 2014 at 1:38pm
 
Neferti wrote on May 19th, 2014 at 1:04pm:
Phemanderac wrote on May 18th, 2014 at 10:48am:
Yep, title kind of says it all really.

That said, I am curious as to what people think is the purpose behind having rules in place, or, what do you think rules provide for the community they are put in place for (in this particular instance I would look at the microcosm that is the Political forum or, as it happens, the political forums)?

It seems to me that this would be a valid topic for the feedback board and, by extension a valid and timely debate to have.

Thoughts?




In my experience, all Political Forums have Moderators. Usually their job is to make sure that spammers and other pests are kept at bay.

Some Political Forums have Moderators who are heavy handed with the ban key, whether that is due to The Rules or not, who knows. Some Moderators are little "Hitlers". Power goes to their head!

I would suggest that some Political Forums don't actually need Moderators to moderate Members "arguments" and so forth. The Members will eventually sort themselves out and those who don't "fit in" will be ostracised and will leave of their own accord.

We are mostly Aussies here at OzPol and we all know how Aussies react ... e.g "You bastard" means "I like you" and so forth.

As an aside , when I first got the Internet in 1995, and got into the Chat scene, the message way back then was to think of a Chat Room as walking into a Bar where you don't know anyone.  Do you usually yell "hey you f-wit, what's up yours" when wandering into somewhere you don't "know" anyone? Of course not. The message was to be polite to strangers.

However, although we all are using anonymous IDs some of us have been posting along side each other for years and years and, as happens at work and elsewhere, we find some "personalities"  are annoying, irritating and downright obnoxious in some cases. THAT'S LIFE. 

As your Mother told you when you were a kid, IGNORE the people who try to bully you by calling you names and being obnoxious.  If you react they will continue.

As we are all adults here (I presume everyone is over 18) we really do NOT need Moderation.  We should be able to moderate our own behaviour and butting in to another "cat fight" between Members is a huge NO NO!  Do you butt in when you see an argument?  Of course you don't. You'd get punched in face, or worse. Stay out of squabbles between other Members. 

Threatening to be "banned" by a Moderator doesn't seem to work.  They just come back, angrier than ever.

So, getting back to The Rules. Like Real Life, Rules are there to be broken and some people will always push the envelope, as it were.   Some people are LIARS, others never tell a fib, regardless. Some people are bullies, others are holier than thou (but secretly bullies in other areas).

LIFE it happens.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
The Mole
Gold Member
*****
Offline


http://www.ozpolitic
.co/album/forum-atta
chments/y

Posts: 1499
Gender: female
Re: What is the purpose of rules?
Reply #18 - May 19th, 2014 at 1:59pm
 
Neferti wrote on May 19th, 2014 at 1:38pm:
Neferti wrote on May 19th, 2014 at 1:04pm:
Phemanderac wrote on May 18th, 2014 at 10:48am:
Yep, title kind of says it all really.

That said, I am curious as to what people think is the purpose behind having rules in place, or, what do you think rules provide for the community they are put in place for (in this particular instance I would look at the microcosm that is the Political forum or, as it happens, the political forums)?

It seems to me that this would be a valid topic for the feedback board and, by extension a valid and timely debate to have.

Thoughts?




In my experience, all Political Forums have Moderators. Usually their job is to make sure that spammers and other pests are kept at bay.

Some Political Forums have Moderators who are heavy handed with the ban key, whether that is due to The Rules or not, who knows. Some Moderators are little "Hitlers". Power goes to their head!

I would suggest that some Political Forums don't actually need Moderators to moderate Members "arguments" and so forth. The Members will eventually sort themselves out and those who don't "fit in" will be ostracised and will leave of their own accord.

We are mostly Aussies here at OzPol and we all know how Aussies react ... e.g "You bastard" means "I like you" and so forth.

As an aside , when I first got the Internet in 1995, and got into the Chat scene, the message way back then was to think of a Chat Room as walking into a Bar where you don't know anyone.  Do you usually yell "hey you f-wit, what's up yours" when wandering into somewhere you don't "know" anyone? Of course not. The message was to be polite to strangers.

However, although we all are using anonymous IDs some of us have been posting along side each other for years and years and, as happens at work and elsewhere, we find some "personalities"  are annoying, irritating and downright obnoxious in some cases. THAT'S LIFE. 

As your Mother told you when you were a kid, IGNORE the people who try to bully you by calling you names and being obnoxious.  If you react they will continue.

As we are all adults here (I presume everyone is over 18) we really do NOT need Moderation.  We should be able to moderate our own behaviour and butting in to another "cat fight" between Members is a huge NO NO!  Do you butt in when you see an argument?  Of course you don't. You'd get punched in face, or worse. Stay out of squabbles between other Members. 

Threatening to be "banned" by a Moderator doesn't seem to work.  They just come back, angrier than ever.

So, getting back to The Rules. Like Real Life, Rules are there to be broken and some people will always push the envelope, as it were.   Some people are LIARS, others never tell a fib, regardless. Some people are bullies, others are holier than thou (but secretly bullies in other areas).

LIFE it happens.



Then they will be banned again I guess, you just can't bow down to bullies..not at the expense of your own happiness...what our mothers told us as kids and what we experience as adults, well sometimes those teachings don't apply.."ignore and bullies go away" ahem...not always and the most persistent bullies just go at  the target even harder , silence is seen as weakness to real bullies. Wink  ?
Back to top
« Last Edit: May 19th, 2014 at 2:52pm by The Mole »  

"Why Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked over your grave"
 
IP Logged
 
Phemanderac
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 3507
Gender: male
Re: What is the purpose of rules?
Reply #19 - May 19th, 2014 at 3:55pm
 
I don't dispute that mods have lives, that is not the issue or, for that matter even an issue.

Further, I acknowledged that it might appear that I am having a go, so be it. Although, I believe it is extremely clear that I am not because I am quite pointedly speaking to;

1) Asking the simple question, what is the purpose of having rules in place (in the first place) - as yet this remains widely unaddressed, ergo

2) I have pointed out that without a clear purpose that is easily defined and articulated, then any implementation etc or rules will ultimately lack consistency and, as an extension integrity.

3) Stayed pretty well focussed on behaviour as opposed to content.

I note the example given above regarding swearing. This is an excellent example of my point, friends might swear at each other with friendly jibes (Language for some might be questionable, however, the behaviour is pretty normal), whereas another poster may swear at someone being clearly on the attack/vicious or intimidating (Language for some might be an issue here, however, the behaviour is clearly anti social, bullying and broadly unacceptable...).

Depending on how clearly rules are articulated therefore, and the purpose of having rules, it would be fairly straight forward regarding a response.

Now, if it is decided that rules are best being content focussed, then issues like language are not longer incontestable - if you swear and that is not acceptable content, then your behaviour around this issue is irrelevant. It has been fairly clearly stated that mods here have to go case by case because of this very issue, I think this demonstrates my case fairly clearly to be frank and honest.

Now, I would point out respectfully that I have very deliberately not named names in an effort to make it not personal. When I speak of mods, I speak to the job of being a mod - not the individuals who have taken on the job here. I see it as largely a thankless task, however, it requires a degree of commitment and time, therefore, if commitment and time management are issues for any individual, I would respectfully suggest that moderating is not a role you will do justice to. To all mods here, sorry if that hits a raw nerve, but please understand, that might be an issue for some personal reflection. Further, my suggestions are not to 'bring the house down', I think we have seen more than enough of that kind of posting here over recent weeks/days. Arguably, I would work towards improving the conditions here for all, including the mods.

As to a comment up there ^^^ somewhere about me wanting one rule for everyone else and my own for me (or something to that effect), I am particularly curious how you came to that conclusion. I would contend in fact that presently we have an extensive set of rules that do not specifically apply to anyone, well, until they are applied to an individual.... That does not make for an even field to play on really.
Back to top
 

On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..
 
IP Logged
 
Neferti
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 7965
Canberra
Gender: female
Re: What is the purpose of rules?
Reply #20 - May 19th, 2014 at 4:12pm
 
Boring afternoon at work, huh? Grin
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 38973
Gender: male
Re: What is the purpose of rules?
Reply #21 - May 19th, 2014 at 4:15pm
 
Quote:
........ however, it requires a degree of commitment and time, therefore, if commitment and time management are issues for any individual, I would respectfully suggest that moderating is not a role you will do justice to.


Mr Mandrake....that is exactly the issue, not the Rules or whether they are needed.

We have them.  They are randomly enforced reactively, it seems, and only if a complaint is made, because those who have the free car park are rarely here, all of them.

For example ~ see my signature, entered years ago.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
mantra
Gold Member
*****
Offline


ozpolitic.com

Posts: 10750
Gender: female
Re: What is the purpose of rules?
Reply #22 - May 19th, 2014 at 4:25pm
 
Phemanderac wrote on May 19th, 2014 at 3:55pm:
As to a comment up there ^^^ somewhere about me wanting one rule for everyone else and my own for me (or something to that effect), I am particularly curious how you came to that conclusion. I would contend in fact that presently we have an extensive set of rules that do not specifically apply to anyone, well, until they are applied to an individual.... That does not make for an even field to play on really.


There really aren't that many rules here. The main two rules are no personal abuse and non disclosure of a member's personal information. The other rules are general and should be taken as a given - no porn, no illegal content, no spamming and no swearing (there's a word change filter).

As language is all we've got to go by here and there are so many members, the moderators would just be flat out monitoring everyone if they wanted to police the rules diligently.

There aren't too many complaints about the moderation, nor the rules - possibly because so few people have bothered to look at them. Rules are made so people have clear boundaries and they know how far they can go. They are essential at times because one person's freedom of speech containing anti-social content can destroy the free speech of those around him/her. You have to support the majority if you want a forum to thrive.

The rules

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/forum-rules.html
Back to top
« Last Edit: May 19th, 2014 at 4:36pm by mantra »  
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 38973
Gender: male
Re: What is the purpose of rules?
Reply #23 - May 19th, 2014 at 4:31pm
 
mantra wrote on May 19th, 2014 at 4:25pm:
Phemanderac wrote on May 19th, 2014 at 3:55pm:
As to a comment up there ^^^ somewhere about me wanting one rule for everyone else and my own for me (or something to that effect), I am particularly curious how you came to that conclusion. I would contend in fact that presently we have an extensive set of rules that do not specifically apply to anyone, well, until they are applied to an individual.... That does not make for an even field to play on really.


There really aren't that many rules here. The main two rules are no personal abuse and no disclosure of a member's personal information. The other rules are general and should be taken as a given - no porn, no illegal content, no spamming and no swearing (there's a word change filter).

As language is all we've got to go by here and there are so many members, the moderators would just be flat out monitoring everyone if they wanted to police the rules diligently.

There aren't too many complaints about the moderation, nor the rules - possibly because so few people have bothered to look at them. Rules are made so people have clear boundaries and they know how far they can go. They are essential at times because one person's freedom of speech containing anti-social content can destroy the free speech of those around him/her. You have to support the majority if you want a forum to thrive.

The rules

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/forum-rules.html


Yeas, mantra ~ they are the Rules, but there have, over time, been edicts posted by the G Mods ~ the latest being a ban on hawking other Forums, but for the life of me, I can't find it.

Some of those edicts have been stickied.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
mantra
Gold Member
*****
Offline


ozpolitic.com

Posts: 10750
Gender: female
Re: What is the purpose of rules?
Reply #24 - May 19th, 2014 at 4:34pm
 
Aussie wrote on May 19th, 2014 at 4:31pm:
Some of those edicts have been stickied.


It would be like looking for a needle in a haystack. Maybe one day someone will have the motivation to hunt for these ongoing edicts and incorporate them into the rules.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Neferti
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 7965
Canberra
Gender: female
Re: What is the purpose of rules?
Reply #25 - May 19th, 2014 at 4:48pm
 
EVENTUALLY, perhaps people who frequent this Forum will, actually act like ADULTS.   Roll Eyes Perhaps? Maybe? Embarrassed  When their own kids grow up?  When they get OLD?  After their cat/dog dies?

LIFE. It is yours, not Tony Abbott's ... he's just the current PM. Wake the bugger up and smell the roses.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
The Mole
Gold Member
*****
Offline


http://www.ozpolitic
.co/album/forum-atta
chments/y

Posts: 1499
Gender: female
Re: What is the purpose of rules?
Reply #26 - May 19th, 2014 at 4:51pm
 
Roll Eyes
Back to top
 

"Why Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked over your grave"
 
IP Logged
 
cods
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 88048
Re: What is the purpose of rules?
Reply #27 - May 19th, 2014 at 5:27pm
 
Phemanderac wrote on May 19th, 2014 at 11:32am:
I like the traffic lights analogy too, well put. I would only add a bit further that in other examples of law and order, the outcomes are made very public, as we have seen thanks to our esteemed politicians quite recently, at times the outcome is publicly laundered even before there has been an official outcome.

Accountability is a pretty important thing to some people.

Being held to account is also pretty important to some.

Then there are those who would prefer to only hold those to account because they disagree....

Which forum (community) would you like to be a party to?






like it or not phem....its the same one you are asking about..

what would happen if we didnt obey the road rules????..

every now and then someone does disobey them,
they usually cause a CRASH...some hideous.

can I tell you about yahoo....quite a few on here used yahoo forum and the political board ran hot..some to to point of threats..the mods couldnt cope so they closed it down..

you see some will never obey the rules.. all we can hope for is MOST DO.

some yes some do get away with it...like running the red light no accident no fine...

but they are few and far between..

now this forum is modded......"well".......very well I think... if the complaint goes direct to a mod instead of a thread to my knowledge it is taken care of..

why or  what has happened to those that are banned  is a secret I do not know...

but it is.

a bit like a traffic fine.. unless the person tells you. Roll Eyes

you have no idea if your complaint is taken on board..I commented on the F.word being used and was told it is mild.. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

well in this day and age I guess I have to accept that....is it good that its a mild word to use... I am not so sure.

you have rules in your home I guess....I know I do...no jumping on furniture is one....but there is always someone who will push the buttons.


you do realize if we had a no rule society there goes the police dept..
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
perceptions_now
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 11694
Perth  WA
Gender: male
Re: What is the purpose of rules?
Reply #28 - May 19th, 2014 at 6:06pm
 
Let me start by saying, that the purpose of Rules, any Rules, is to limit & direct actions, towards desirable outcomes, whatever those outcomes are deemed to be.

If the issues are entirely Public, then the Rules would need to consider what outcomes are acceptable, from the Public perspective, But they would also usually have “some” content directing people towards outcomes which may not currently be widely accepted, But which may be required in the medium to longer term, perhaps from a government perspective.

Should the issues involve both Public & Private issues, then most of the above is still going to be in play, But the Private imperatives will also need to be considered, as there would be little point in implementing a range of Rules, where say one of the final outcomes saw the Private enterprise (such as an Internet Forum), go broke, as the Costs of achieving the Public & Private imperatives outweighed the profits made.

Effectively, there is almost always a balance to be struck, between Rules, achieving the reasons for those rules, which is generally to deliver services to be enjoyed by the Public, whilst at the same time ensuring that the Private Business survives & achieves a Profit, to enable their services to be delivered in the longer term! 

I note the following suggested analogy of the Law, to an internet Forum such as this –
“If rules are articulated in such a fashion that there is squirm room, loopholes or, as you seem to be suggesting degrees of severity, then, in short, the rules have been ineptly developed or articulated. Or, those implementing/enforcing them are not fully conversant with the overall meaning, or, lack the understanding to apply them equally.”

Whilst the analogy has been made, there are many reasons why the analogy is not particularly appropriate, including –
1)      That Laws are enforced by people that have spent enormous amounts of time, studying & interpreting the laws, such as Judges.
2)      People, such as Judges, are paid a considerable amount of Money, as a reward for their studies & they also spend a great deal of time, in actually doing their job, which they are paid for.

Of course, the above does not apply to those Moderators on internet Form, who may simply be there, like I am, to give back a bit to the community, by assisting in allowing an internet Forum to operate, so most members can communicate their ideas to others, without them having to endure some of the worst aspects of Swearing, baiting, trolling and other internet not so “niceties”.

Almost all Moderators, unlike Judges etc, would not be paid anything, they would “donate” whatever spare time they have and no matter what some Forum members may think, Moderators may only be available usually for the McDonalds “limited time only”.
Anyone expecting more, I would venture to say, is going to be let down, because no matter anyone may or may not say, no one is going to, nor is any one capable of, spending every waking hour sitting at the keyboard, nor even as much time as Judges do, in peering at every post made, particularly on larger forums.   

And then, there are the myriad of problems that come with interpreting the rules, as I attempted to look at in post –
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1343785142/3#3

So, as I have said previously, I’m not sure if that helps, but they are some more of my views.

Oh & finally, there can always be the unplanned eventualities, which sometimes come along, one of which occupied quite a portion of my day, today.

Anyway Cheers!
Back to top
« Last Edit: May 19th, 2014 at 11:47pm by perceptions_now »  
 
IP Logged
 
Neferti
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 7965
Canberra
Gender: female
Re: What is the purpose of rules?
Reply #29 - May 19th, 2014 at 6:50pm
 
Ah, so, there is absolutely no impartiality around here. Moderation is only directed at certain parties. Good Oh.  Carry on.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 ... 9
Send Topic Print