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Islam-aint'cha sick of it? (Read 19793 times)
polite_gandalf
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Re: Islam-aint'cha sick of it?
Reply #60 - Jun 1st, 2014 at 12:04pm
 
Soren wrote on Jun 1st, 2014 at 11:31am:
Facts - what factual error did Bolt make in an opinion piece dealing with self-identification that has financial and social benefits but which are far from obvious? Mistaking a 1/16th Aborigine for a 1/8th one?


Bolt made about 19 howlers which were front and centre of his case about the women choosing to identify as aborigines later in life. In just one instance he claimed that one woman had a German father, and therefore she should consider her heritage as German. Here's what he said:

Quote:
"She's won many positions and honours as an Aborigine, including the David Unaipon Award for Indigenous Writers, and is often interviewed demanding special rights for 'my people'. But which people are 'yours', exactly, mein liebchen? And isn't it bizarre to demand laws to give you more rights as a white Aborigine than your own white dad?"

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/in-black-and-white-andrew-bolt-trifled-with-the-facts-20110928-1kxba.html#ixzz33LhpB9o5


It turned out that her father was black, and she was raised as an aborigine. So that entire smear gets thrown out the window.

Like I said, without the lies, Bolt had no smear against these people.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Soren
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Re: Islam-aint'cha sick of it?
Reply #61 - Jun 1st, 2014 at 12:28pm
 
Facts, facts, facts. Why do facts come under 'hate speech' laws. Because they concern one interporetation of facts versus another?

Here are some facts:
Behrendt was born in 1969 and grew up mainly in the middle-class Sydney suburb of Gymea on Port Hacking in the Sutherland Shire. Neither she nor her parents came from an Aboriginal community. Her part-Aboriginal father Paul was an air traffic controller and later an academic, her white mother Raema an accountant.

A shire girl from the shores of Port Hacking is about as culturally distant as it is possible to be from the sorry females in the blacks' camps of Alice Springs.

Both Behrendt and her father claim that his mother, Lavinia Boney, was a member of the Stolen Generations. The archival evidence, however, reveals this is incorrect. According to Boney's file in the NSW Aborigines Protection Board records, in 1917 when she was aged about 13 and living at the blacks' camp at Dungalear Station, near Walgett, her mother died. Her father's whereabouts were unknown, so she was effectively an orphan.

The Aborigines Protection Board found her a job as a domestic servant on a pastoral station at Collarenebri. Her file says this was at "the girl's own request to get away from camp life". From 1921 to 1923 Boney was employed in domestic service in hospitals and private homes in Sydney and Parkes. She met the German editor Henry Behrendt at Parkes Hospital. They married and went to live at Lithgow. Lavinia eventually had nine children by him before she died in childbirth. In 1944 Henry placed five-year-old Paul and his surviving siblings in the Presbyterian Church's Burnside Homes at Parramatta.

Aged 15, Paul left Burnside and joined the Royal Australian Navy. He trained to become an air traffic controller, a profession he later followed in civilian aviation, settling in Sydney. While convalescing from a heart attack in 1980, he decided to pursue his Aboriginal mother's history. He subsequently became known for his research abilities and his activism in Aboriginal politics. In 1988 UNSW appointed him inaugural director of its Aboriginal Research and Resource Centre. He was also the first chairman of the Aboriginal Studies Association.

In the 1980s, when I was employed at UNSW, my path crossed briefly with Paul Behrendt. Even in middle age he was a good-looking man and it was not surprising many women were attracted to him. Unless you knew, you would not have guessed he was of Aboriginal descent.

In the spectrum of Aboriginal politics, Paul was an ultra-leftist. In 1992, he argued that British colonisation of Australia was illegitimate and that Aborigines still held sovereignty over the continent. He was a joint author with Gerhard Fischer, Michael Mansell and others of the book The Mudrooroo/Muller Project in which he demanded Aborigines be given a separate country, self-governing and with its own laws. Mansell used the book to make similar claims on behalf of the Aboriginal Provisional Government. At this time, Larissa Behrendt was also a member of the Aboriginal Provisional Government. In 1987 and 1988, Mansell had gone to Libya seeking funding for his organisation from Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi. He also sought to join Gaddafi's Mathaba worldwide group of insurgents and terrorists.

About this time, Paul left his family. He lived in a hippie commune before moving in with Bobbi Sykes, the black activist made famous in the 70s at the Aboriginal Tent Embassy in Canberra. She was also a supporter of the Black Panthers movement. Sykes subsequently won a scholarship to Harvard University where she was described as its first Aboriginal graduate.

However, her Aboriginal identity was later declared fraudulent by Aboriginal activist Pat O'Shane, the NSW magistrate also from Sykes's birthplace, Townsville. Sykes's father was not an Aborigine but a black American soldier stationed in north Queensland during World War II.

Sykes became important in Larissa Behrendt's life, showing her how she could also get to Harvard. Larissa admitted that in her undergraduate degree, "I hadn't got particularly high marks". Yet she was preferred ahead of a university medallist, and the decision generated a complaint. In an age of affirmative action in higher education, however, she fitted the required profile. "I think Harvard saw a gap in their intake," she explained.

Behrendt's tweets, which have revealed her distaste for Aborigines with different political views, may well generate a revival of sentiments I recorded in Quadrant last year when discussing author Sally Morgan's claim to Aboriginal identity. Activist Jackie Huggins had said that, even though people might have some Aboriginal ancestors, they could not be genuine Aborigines if they had been brought up in white suburbs without any engagement with an Aboriginal community.

For saying much the same thing, it should be remembered, Andrew Bolt went on trial last month under the Racial Hatred Act.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/questioning-credentials...

When Aborigines question the Aboriginality of other Aborigines, is that also hate speech? Or is it hate speech only when whitey asks questions about 'minorities'?

Identity politics is a curse. Aboriginality is a form of it, as is islamophobia-mongering.
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Karnal
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Re: Islam-aint'cha sick of it?
Reply #62 - Jun 1st, 2014 at 12:42pm
 
Bolt also said the stolen generation never happened - not one person was taken from their families for being black or half-caste.

Bolt had neglected to read the original report he was criticizing. When he was shown hundreds of stolen generation cases, he ignored them and continued with the same line - for months. Members of the stolen generation wrote to him with their stories. Bolt ignored them all. He insisted that no one had come forward to tell him their stories.

Bolt loves to call himself a skeptic. He likes to be seen in the rationalist Enlightenment tradition. But Bolt simply puts out his unresearched claims or outright lies and dogmatically ignores all evidence to the contrary. He pretends - like his climate skeptic stance - that there is no evidence at all. It’s all a big leftist conspiracy.

And this, when he has evidence sitting on his own desk.

Bolt loves to play the outsider, the David against Goliath. But Bolt’s minority positions are usually in the minority because they’re wrong. Bolt says his favourite author is Orwell, but Bolt has turned Orwell on his head. For Bolt, freedom is not the ability to say that two plus two equals four. Bolt wants the freedom to say that two plus two equals five.

And this is why Bolt is so chummy with Rupert. It’s the News business model, from the tabloids to Fox News (fair and balanced). It’s pure propaganda, and Bolt is Rupert’s man in Australia.

I say, dear boy, Is this the sort of benefit our proud civilisation has brought to humankind?
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« Last Edit: Jun 1st, 2014 at 12:51pm by Karnal »  
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Islam-aint'cha sick of it?
Reply #63 - Jun 1st, 2014 at 12:45pm
 
So you have to live in Alice Springs before you can be considered a bona-fide 'Aborigine'?

Funny, I thought self-identification depended on... err... self identification.

Bolt's original point - ie the smear he was running before he got caught out on his lies - was that these women self identified as Aborigine only after they realised it would help with their careers. He based this smear entirely on incorrect information about their parents and upbringing. When the facts came out, it was clear that these women had self-identified as Aborigines all along - a fact which neither Bolt nor his newspaper even attempted to dispute. So thats why we see the backflipping alternative version of the smear you quoted above - ie its no longer a claim about how the women self-identified, its all about how Bolt thinks it was silly the way they self-identify, based on Bolt's ignorant world view that self-identifying Aborigines should be restricted to half naked corroboree dancers in Alice Springs.

Soren wrote on Jun 1st, 2014 at 12:28pm:
For saying much the same thing, it should be remembered, Andrew Bolt went on trial last month under the Racial Hatred Act.


Grin Grin
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Torpedo
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Re: Islam-aint'cha sick of it?
Reply #64 - Jun 1st, 2014 at 1:10pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 1st, 2014 at 12:45pm:
So you have to live in Alice Springs before you can be considered a bona-fide 'Aborigine'?

Gandalf.. just tell me your lineage and I will denounce you for the invasion, genocide, extermination, exile, etc, of the <insert appropriate>
and, btw, at times you sound like a parrot: "fool! fool! fool!" "racist! racist! racist!", "bah!, bah!, bah!"

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polite_gandalf
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Re: Islam-aint'cha sick of it?
Reply #65 - Jun 1st, 2014 at 6:03pm
 
What are you talking about Torpedo? We are debating the reason given for the findings against Bolt in the 18c case - nothing at all about me crying "racist" "fool" and "bah". Try and keep up.

And BTW I'm more than happy acknowledging the responsibility of my ancestors for the genocide of the Aborigines.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Torpedo
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Re: Islam-aint'cha sick of it?
Reply #66 - Jun 1st, 2014 at 7:30pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 1st, 2014 at 6:03pm:
What are you talking about Torpedo? We are debating the reason given for the findings against Bolt in the 18c case - nothing at all about me crying "racist" "fool" and "bah". Try and keep up.

And BTW I'm more than happy acknowledging the responsibility of my ancestors for the genocide of the Aborigines.

I am talking about your quote:
"So you have to live in Alice Springs before you can be considered a bona-fide 'Aborigine'?"
you seem to be quick at accusing Aussies, Bolt, or any non muslim of anything: lies, or some past, as long as you have something against them - you will happily display it, but somehow always forgetting to mention the more serious crimes committed today by your fellows, and strangely sometimes even claiming for redemption... Shouldnt you lot compensate for all the stolen Armenian, Syrian, etc lives? return their lands, and stop declaring more wars? Isn't it enough?
You'are hiding boulder in your eye while seeking out a speck in someone else's
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Re: Islam-aint'cha sick of it?
Reply #67 - Jun 1st, 2014 at 7:32pm
 
Karnal wrote on Jun 1st, 2014 at 12:42pm:
Bolt also said the stolen generation never happened - not one person was taken from their families for being black or half-caste.

If that's the definition, then he is right, that never happened.

Come to think of it, whatever the definition, there was no stolen generation.


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polite_gandalf
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Re: Islam-aint'cha sick of it?
Reply #68 - Jun 1st, 2014 at 8:14pm
 
Torpedo wrote on Jun 1st, 2014 at 7:30pm:
you seem to be quick at accusing Aussies, Bolt, or any non muslim of anything: lies


I am accusing Bolt of lying because thats exactly what he did. No one disputes this, not even Bolt himself.

I am also pointing out what Bolt himself said in the first three sentences of the article Soren posted - that not being brought up in an "Aboriginal community" somehow disqualifies you from self-identifying as Aboriginal. This is all pretty straight forward I would have thought, but if you believe I'm misrepresenting Bolt's position then just say so. No need to go off on all these 'only a muslim would say this' tangents.

Torpedo wrote on Jun 1st, 2014 at 7:30pm:
as long as you have something against them - you will happily display it, but somehow always forgetting to mention the more serious crimes committed today by your fellows, and strangely sometimes even claiming for redemption... Shouldnt you lot compensate for all the stolen Armenian, Syrian, etc lives? return their lands, and stop declaring more wars? Isn't it enough?
You'are hiding boulder in your eye while seeking out a speck in someone else's


Oooh officer! Officer! - over here - I object! There's a muslim here attempting to participate in a debate! Unconscionable! But don't worry - I think I've nipped this one in the bud by giving him the old ad-hominem circumstantial fallacy treatment. That aughta learn him!
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Islam-aint'cha sick of it?
Reply #69 - Jun 1st, 2014 at 8:24pm
 
Strangely though when we had a student from Tel Aviv on here the other year his views on the Middle East and Islam were quickly retorted purely on the basis he came from Israel.

Quick to turn on those guys based on background is my experience of Muslims.
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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Karnal
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Re: Islam-aint'cha sick of it?
Reply #70 - Jun 1st, 2014 at 8:37pm
 
Soren wrote on Jun 1st, 2014 at 7:32pm:
Karnal wrote on Jun 1st, 2014 at 12:42pm:
Bolt also said the stolen generation never happened - not one person was taken from their families for being black or half-caste.

If that's the definition, then he is right, that never happened.

Come to think of it, whatever the definition, there was no stolen generation.




But of course. Archives from state and territory Aboriginal Protectorates,  their documented policies of removing half-castes, quarter-castes and octoroons to breed out boongs, the testimonies of thousands of removed children, the testimonies and letters of the police who did the removing, and the words of the racial architects, Cecil Cook and A.O Neville outlining the whole eugenic vision - none of it exists.

"The problem of our half-castes will quickly be eliminated by the complete disappearance of the black race" - Cecil Cook.

"Eliminate the full-blood and permit the white admixture and eventually the race will become white" - A.O Neville.

And then, of course, their words spelling out how to remove children, how black mothers don’t really care, how the children will be put to good use as labourers and domestics, etc, etc, etc.

Yes, old chap, all an elaborate concoction on the part of Darkie and his cunning campaign against your proud white culture.

Correlation, dear boy, not causation. Who’s a clever boy then?

Blame Islam, don’t we? Ain’tcha sick of it?
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Karnal
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Re: Islam-aint'cha sick of it?
Reply #71 - Jun 1st, 2014 at 8:53pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 1st, 2014 at 8:24pm:
Strangely though when we had a student from Tel Aviv on here the other year his views on the Middle East and Islam were quickly retorted purely on the basis he came from Israel.

Quick to turn on those guys based on background is my experience of Muslims.


True, but you still employ a few in your Singapore office. They make good little workers, no?
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Re: Islam-aint'cha sick of it?
Reply #72 - Jun 1st, 2014 at 8:55pm
 
Karnal wrote on Jun 1st, 2014 at 8:53pm:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 1st, 2014 at 8:24pm:
Strangely though when we had a student from Tel Aviv on here the other year his views on the Middle East and Islam were quickly retorted purely on the basis he came from Israel.

Quick to turn on those guys based on background is my experience of Muslims.


True, but you still employ a few in your Singapore office. They make good little workers, no?


Muslims? In our Singapore office?
I have no idea. The couple I have met I don't think so.

The Malaysia office has them in the warehouse and their work ethic is bloody appalling actually.

Singapore's is excellent but I do not know their religion. Great looking girls in accounting though.
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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Re: Islam-aint'cha sick of it?
Reply #73 - Jun 1st, 2014 at 10:48pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 1st, 2014 at 8:14pm:
Torpedo wrote on Jun 1st, 2014 at 7:30pm:
you seem to be quick at accusing Aussies, Bolt, or any non muslim of anything: lies


Oooh officer! Officer! - over here - I object! There's a muslim here attempting to participate in a debate! Unconscionable! But don't worry - I think I've nipped this one in the bud by giving him the old ad-hominem circumstantial fallacy treatment. That aughta learn him!

Only if you could accept how wrong you are, you and everyone around you would be much happier people.
Socrates once made this move, a smart man he was (just as an example)
But you won't, you resort to accuse, condemn and hide
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Karnal
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Re: Islam-aint'cha sick of it?
Reply #74 - Jun 1st, 2014 at 11:40pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 1st, 2014 at 8:55pm:
Karnal wrote on Jun 1st, 2014 at 8:53pm:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 1st, 2014 at 8:24pm:
Strangely though when we had a student from Tel Aviv on here the other year his views on the Middle East and Islam were quickly retorted purely on the basis he came from Israel.

Quick to turn on those guys based on background is my experience of Muslims.


True, but you still employ a few in your Singapore office. They make good little workers, no?


Muslims? In our Singapore office?
I have no idea. The couple I have met I don't think so.

The Malaysia office has them in the warehouse and their work ethic is bloody appalling actually.

Singapore's is excellent but I do not know their religion. Great looking girls in accounting though.


Warehouse? What sort of global financial firm has a warehouse?

Selling fermented soy beans, are we?

Don’t tell the old boy. He’ll think you’re muscling in on his boutique turd-dealing racket.
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