Australian Politics Forum - Is this a product of Islam or not?

Lord Herbert

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Re: Is this a product of Islam or not?
Reply #15 - May 28^th, 2014 at 5:28pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on May 28^th, 2014 at 3:46pm:

[quote

I should have added "according to Islamic law." It is, of course, not the reality for many women and girls throughout the Muslim world.

I was going to argue the point with you, Annie ... but I came up empty-handed when I checked out the facts.

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Most religious scholars agree that Islam permits Muslim men to marry "women of the book" - Christians or Jews - thus expanding the number of potential partners to choose from.

Muslim women, on the other hand, are forbidden to marry a non-Muslim unless her partner converts to Islam, say purists. Some men nominally convert to Islam in order to appease their partner's family.

Imam Taj Hargey of the Muslim Educational Centre of Oxford is an exception. He has conducted marriage services for Muslim women without their Christian or Jewish partners converting. Most Muslims find this notion unacceptable, claiming it is tantamount to living in sin.

Imam Hargey's stance may be controversial, but he argues: "There is no verse in the Holy Quran that bans Muslim women from marrying non-Muslim men."

"Almighty God would have revealed explicit directives if Muslim women were not allowed to marry outside the faith," he says. "As Muslim men are entitled to marry women from the People of the Book who are not Muslim [Surah al-Maidah 5:5], the same right must be afforded to Muslim women as Islam is a gender-equal religion.

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moses

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Re: Is this a product of Islam or not?
Reply #16 - May 28^th, 2014 at 5:40pm

I suppose killing them reasonably quickly by stoning, is better than locking them up and starving them to death, however I can see how easily honour killings can morph into any type of killing:

qur’an 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.”

Murdering women is allowed in islam.

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Is this a product of Islam or not? Reply #17 - May 28^th, 2014 at 6:59pm There's the usual evasion and spin on this, Moses. link Dodgy, slippery, and evasive.
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moses

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Re: Is this a product of Islam or not?
Reply #18 - May 28^th, 2014 at 8:44pm

They make any normal person sick.

Of particular interest, and shows the true degenerate nature of muslims are these last lines reporting the said honour killing:

Campaigners say few cases come to court, and those that do can take years to be heard.

Even those that do result in a conviction may end with the killers walking free. ]Pakistani law allows a victim's family to forgive their killer.

But in honour killings, most of the time the women's killers are her family, said Wasim Wagha of the Aurat Foundation.

The law allows them to nominate someone to do the murder, then forgive him.

So sick muslims can nominate someone to do the murder, then forgive him. But they can't forgive their own daughter for marrying the man she loves, islam is a mental disease of the worst kind. but then again they base their life on the thief, liar, pedophile, rapist, torturer and mass murderer muhammad. What else can you expect from them?

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Is this a product of Islam or not? Reply #19 - May 28^th, 2014 at 9:02pm Oh but it has nothing to do with Islam, Moses. I have gandalf's assurance on this. There is absolutely not the remotest connection between these 'honour killings' and Islamic cultural viewpoint, anymore than 9/11 had even the most distant and tenuous connection to the 'Religion of Peace.'
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freediver

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Re: Is this a product of Islam or not?
Reply #20 - May 28^th, 2014 at 9:23pm

Adamant wrote on May 28^th, 2014 at 2:42pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on May 28^th, 2014 at 9:35am:

The husband was a Muslim and Muslim women are free to marry whoever they choose, as long as he's also a Muslim. Women are encouraged to seek the guidance of their parents, but forced marriages are prohibited.

I don't believe this is true, many muslim women around the world have been killed for wanting to marry for love. In a Sydney court at the moment is the forced underage marriage of a muslim girl. In a more muslim part of the world http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2014/05/16/from-jewess-sol-hachuel-to-christian... And so on and so on and so and.

I believe the man involved also has to agree to it.

The idea that a girl as young as 6 is going to marry for love or effectively exercise her right to choose is a ludicrous excuse for arranged marriage and a culture of sexual servitude.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Is this a product of Islam or not?
Reply #21 - May 28^th, 2014 at 9:23pm

Lord Herbert wrote on May 28^th, 2014 at 9:02pm:

Oh but it has nothing to do with Islam, Moses. I have gandalf's assurance on this.

There is absolutely not the remotest connection between these 'honour killings' and Islamic cultural viewpoint, anymore than 9/11 had even the most distant and tenuous connection to the 'Religion of Peace.'

Cool

when commenting against islam I believe it is better to be direct.

eg, 'honor killngs' are only done by muslims and directly mirror mohs attitude against women and his perchant for extremism.

it is entirely of islams doing, it is entirely their responsibility and the result of a deeply flawed cult.

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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Mattywisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1373 Gender:	Re: Is this a product of Islam or not? Reply #22 - May 28^th, 2014 at 9:36pm Imagine some ugly 6 year old girl selecting you as her 54 year old husband gross.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Is this a product of Islam or not?
Reply #23 - May 29^th, 2014 at 8:12am

Lord Herbert wrote on May 28^th, 2014 at 5:18pm:

And beside the hadith providing a model for certain Muslims of a fundamentalist mindset to resort to this horrendous type of capital punishment, the perpetrators confirmed their Muslim credentials by using stoning as their preferred method of execution.

1. There is no islamic law permitting family to kill their daughters for marrying someone they didn't choose.

2. There was no islamic justification invoked by the perpetrators. They cited "family honour", nothing more.

Claiming the method of murder as evidence they were 'following' the prophetic example is what we call clutching at straws.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49389 At my desk.	Re: Is this a product of Islam or not? Reply #24 - May 29^th, 2014 at 8:18am Did she marry a non-Muslim?
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Lord Herbert

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Re: Is this a product of Islam or not?
Reply #25 - May 29^th, 2014 at 8:56am

polite_gandalf wrote on May 29^th, 2014 at 8:12am:

Lord Herbert wrote on May 28^th, 2014 at 5:18pm:

And beside the hadith providing a model for certain Muslims of a fundamentalist mindset to resort to this horrendous type of capital punishment, the perpetrators confirmed their Muslim credentials by using stoning as their preferred method of execution.

1. There is no islamic law permitting family to kill their daughters for marrying someone they didn't choose.

2. There was no islamic justification invoked by the perpetrators. They cited "family honour", nothing more.

Claiming the method of murder as evidence they were 'following' the prophetic example is what we call clutching at straws.

Taking your audience for mugs is not the way to win debates. I've said enough in my above comments to convince most reasonable people who have no stake in defending Islam at all cost, that these sort of stonings are very much a phenomenon characteristic of Muslim societies.

Jesus of the Bible is reported to have told his audience not to 'cast the first stone unless you are without sin'.

The hadith record the Islamic prophet as having ordered the stoning of at least two people.

This demonstrates a judicial ethic that is poles apart between Christianity and Islam.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Is this a product of Islam or not?
Reply #26 - May 29^th, 2014 at 4:05pm

freediver wrote on May 29^th, 2014 at 8:18am:

Did she marry a non-Muslim?

A question you probably didn't think of - but is even more relevant: were the perpetrators even muslim?

Lord Herbert wrote on May 29^th, 2014 at 8:56am:

The hadith record the Islamic prophet as having ordered the stoning of at least two people.

This demonstrates a judicial ethic that is poles apart between Christianity and Islam.

Laughable. Jewish and christian prophets ordered the genocide of men women and children.

Also, muslims follow Jesus too.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Is this a product of Islam or not?
Reply #27 - May 29^th, 2014 at 5:08pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 29^th, 2014 at 4:05pm:

Laughable. Jewish and christian prophets ordered the genocide of men women and children.

In the name of Jesus?

Did the founder of Christianity order any stonings?

Did the founder of Islam order any stonings?

polite_gandalf wrote on May 29^th, 2014 at 4:05pm:

Also, muslims follow Jesus too.

Laughable.

Name me one thing they 'follow' from his preachings that are unique to him.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Is this a product of Islam or not?
Reply #28 - May 29^th, 2014 at 6:55pm

Lord Herbert wrote on May 29^th, 2014 at 5:08pm:

In the name of Jesus?

In the name of God actually.

Lord Herbert wrote on May 29^th, 2014 at 5:08pm:

Did the founder of Christianity order any stonings?

For a christian, Jesus was not the founder of christianity. Just as muslims don't consider Muhammad the founder of islam.

Since you insist on making moral comparisons, an important one you probably should consider is that the bible (you know, christians holy book) commands stoning, and the quran does not.

Christianity doesn't start with Christ, it starts with the genocidal prophets who slaughtered babies in the name of God. You won't see any christian here try and pretend those deeds are not part of christian doctrine. The Quran orders restraint and non-combatants to be spared. Hows that for a moral comparison?

Now go ahead and reply with your usual "I'm not going to be drawn into [insert random strawman] as a way of worming out of your stupid claims yet again.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Adamant

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Re: Is this a product of Islam or not?
Reply #29 - May 29^th, 2014 at 8:30pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 29^th, 2014 at 6:55pm:

For a christian, Jesus was not the founder of christianity

Yadda is best to answer that but I doubt your are correct!

polite_gandalf wrote on May 29^th, 2014 at 6:55pm:

it starts with the genocidal prophets who slaughtered babies in the name of God.

Off with the fairies again are we Gandalf. How much of the old testament do you believe is true. 10% max maybe if your lucky?

polite_gandalf wrote on May 29^th, 2014 at 6:55pm:

The Quran orders restraint and non-combatants to be spared.

Adamant has gone to vomit.

Before the battle for Delhi, Timur executed 100,000 captives. (captives read innocent's!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur

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« Last Edit: May 29^th, 2014 at 8:43pm by Adamant »

In real life Gandalf is known as Mr 10%

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