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Was Jesus the son of god or just a human ? (Read 10754 times)
Sprintcyclist
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Re: Was Jesus the son of god or just a human ?
Reply #30 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 9:32am
 
rabbitoh08 wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 11:26pm:
Yadda wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 11:48pm:
Many people alive today claim to have met him, and to have been in his presence.

Many people alive today do a lot of drugs.


Jesus changes lots of lives, for the good.
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Re: Was Jesus the son of god or just a human ?
Reply #31 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 10:38am
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 2:56pm:
Hundreds of prophecies about Jesus appear in the Old Testament.
Much of the Old testament has been carbon tested and proven to be as old as claimed.

So many prophecies were made well before Jesus was born.


They are rather vague and open to interpretation. Since the new testament was written later it could have be easily written to fulfill the prophecies. Not exactly convincing evidence.
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Re: Was Jesus the son of god or just a human ?
Reply #32 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 11:16am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 8:50pm:
stryder wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 11:03pm:
You really think he was just made up entirely ??, do you think there is a possibility that he actually existed, but was no supernatural deity in human guise, but rather a human being just like you and me, who got caught up in something where he died along the way on a wooden cross, and somehow the supernatural element to him was made up along the way after he died to create a religion.


I think the most likely scenario is that the story of Jesus is entirely made up, and has had an embellished existence throughout history. But I would surmise that the story of Jesus is only 600 or 700 years old, and based on other tales from other religions. This story only survives because Americans have a few of their countrymen with ancestry that go back to the time when they fled Europe's enlightenment period, for these new Americans to continue their superstitious culture.

I have just started reading the bible -- incited by the desire to reinforce my view that the bible is nothing more than fiction, with no real purpose other than entertainment value. I'm only 20 pages into the book my grandmother left behind, and I'm convinced that it's one big story of a family feud by a bunch of farmers.


St Augustine refers to Christ in his writings in the 4th and 5th centuries.
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Re: Was Jesus the son of god or just a human ?
Reply #33 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 12:15pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 11:16am:
UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 8:50pm:
stryder wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 11:03pm:
You really think he was just made up entirely ??, do you think there is a possibility that he actually existed, but was no supernatural deity in human guise, but rather a human being just like you and me, who got caught up in something where he died along the way on a wooden cross, and somehow the supernatural element to him was made up along the way after he died to create a religion.


I think the most likely scenario is that the story of Jesus is entirely made up, and has had an embellished existence throughout history. But I would surmise that the story of Jesus is only 600 or 700 years old, and based on other tales from other religions. This story only survives because Americans have a few of their countrymen with ancestry that go back to the time when they fled Europe's enlightenment period, for these new Americans to continue their superstitious culture.

I have just started reading the bible -- incited by the desire to reinforce my view that the bible is nothing more than fiction, with no real purpose other than entertainment value. I'm only 20 pages into the book my grandmother left behind, and I'm convinced that it's one big story of a family feud by a bunch of farmers.


St Augustine refers to Christ in his writings in the 4th and 5th centuries.


Yeah, thinking Christianity is only a few hundred years old, and invented by the Americans is a very interesting idea..
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: Was Jesus the son of god or just a human ?
Reply #34 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 12:59pm
 

Quote:
..........

About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.

Flavius Josephus: Antiquities of the Jews, Book 18, Chapter 3, 3[58].....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus

Flavius wrote as an historian.
ie , A non-religious book.
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Re: Was Jesus the son of god or just a human ?
Reply #35 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 1:09pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 9:32am:
rabbitoh08 wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 11:26pm:
Yadda wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 11:48pm:
Many people alive today claim to have met him, and to have been in his presence.

Many people alive today do a lot of drugs.


Jesus changes lots of lives, for the good.



So do drugs, you've just gotta find the right one  Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Re: Was Jesus the son of god or just a human ?
Reply #36 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 2:31pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 12:59pm:
Quote:
..........

About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.

Flavius Josephus: Antiquities of the Jews, Book 18, Chapter 3, 3[58].....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus

Flavius wrote as an historian.
ie , A non-religious book.


Yes, however:

Quote:
Scholarly opinion on the total or partial authenticity of the reference in Book 18, Chapter 3, 3 of the Antiquities, a passage that states that Jesus the Messiah was a wise teacher who was crucified by Pilate, usually called the Testimonium Flavianum, varies. The general scholarly view is that while the Testimonium Flavianum is most likely not authentic in its entirety, it is broadly agreed upon that it originally consisted of an authentic nucleus, which was then subject to Christian interpolation or forgery by fourth-century apologist Eusebius or by others


If Jesus had really done the sort of things claimed, there would likely be more than a passing mention in other texts.

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Re: Was Jesus the son of god or just a human ?
Reply #37 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 8:23pm
 
Son of God
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Re: Was Jesus the son of god or just a human ?
Reply #38 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 9:36pm
 

Jesus is someone I know. We met some years ago.
He made a profound change in my life.

There are many people who say the same thing of Jesus.
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Re: Was Jesus the son of god or just a human ?
Reply #39 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 9:43pm
 

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.
So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

John 8:34-36
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Re: Was Jesus the son of god or just a human ?
Reply #40 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 10:00pm
 
Quote:
The Essenes were a Jewish mystical sect somewhat resembling the Pharisees. They lived lives of ritual purity and separation. They originated about 100 B.C., and disappeared from history after the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. The Essenes are not directly mentioned in Scripture, although some believe they may be referred to in Matthew 19:11, 12 and in Colossians 2:8, 18, and 23. Interest in the Essenes was renewed with the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, which were likely recorded and stored by the Essenes.

It has been popular among some scholars to claim that John the Baptist was an Essene. There are some similarities between John and the Essenes: 1. John was in the desert (Luke 1:80). The Essenes were in the desert. 2. Both John and the Essenes used Isaiah 40:3 to describe themselves as the voice in the wilderness. 3. The baptism (or washing) practiced by John and the Essenes required a change of heart. At the same time, there are significant differences between John the Baptist and the Essenes: 1. The Essenes hid themselves away from society in the wilderness. John was a very public figure. 2. John had a much stricter diet (Luke 7:33) than did the Essenes. 3. John preached Jesus as the Messiah. The Essenes did not recognize Jesus as Messiah, but they thought that the Teacher of Righteousness would himself be an Essene. 4. There was a strong organization among the Essenes that was missing among John the Baptist’s disciples. So, was John the Baptist an Essene? While it is possible, it cannot be explicitly proven  historically.






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Re: Was Jesus the son of god or just a human ?
Reply #41 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 10:05pm
 
Jesus the Man: New Interpretations from the Dead Sea Scrolls is a book written by the Australian biblical scholar and theologian Barbara Thiering. It was first published by Doubleday in 1992 with the title, Jesus & The Riddle of The Dead Sea Scrolls: Unlocking The Secrets of His Life Story.

Using a technique that the author calls "pesher", she purports to have uncovered evidence in the Gospels themselves that effectively contradicts the story they narrate of Jesus's and his mission. She calls this story the "surface meaning" of the Gospels, which is "for 'babes'", in contrast to the hidden meaning. Using this method, Thiering believes she has discovered, among other things, that Jesus was a member of the Essene community, that he survived the crucifixion, and that he later married twice.

The book was a bestseller, and has been several times reprinted. Its argument has been widely rejected by the scholarly community

The central thesis of the book is that "Jesus was the leader of a radical faction of Essene priests. He was not of virgin birth. He did not die on the Cross. He married Mary Magdalene, fathered a family, and later divorced. He died sometime after AD 64".[2] From the New Testament gospels and Dead Sea Scrolls, Thiering constructs a new history of early Christianity which she contends was hidden in pesher coding. Thiering finds that the biography of Jesus hidden in the New Testament shows him to have been born in Qumran, an Essene community beside the Dead Sea, in March, 7 BC. Robert E. Van Voorst summarizes Thiering's account of the life of Jesus as follows:


He was born out of wedlock to a woman of Qumran's royal-priestly line, befriended outcasts, and performed no miracles. He was crucified with Simon Magus and Judas Iscariot at Qumran, but survived by snake venom that rendered him unconscious. Jesus then married twice, to Mary Magdalene and Lydia of Philippi, fathering three children. After wandering the Mediterranean, he died in obscurity in Rome.[3]

Jesus's distinctive ideas arose from the Essenes. In March, 17 AD, he was initiated at the age of 23, and took a political stance in favor of his spiritual "father", Annas the high priest, "who taught peace with Rome and the promotion of Gentiles".[4] He was rebaptized by John the Baptist in March, 29 AD. Thiering says that John is identical to the Essene Teacher of Righteousness, praised in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Jesus soon split from John, becoming one of the leaders of a party "called the Twelve Apostles",[5] some of whom (including Judas Iscariot and Simon Magus) were zealots and others (including Jesus), pacifists. Because of his opposition to John, Jesus is referred to the Dead Sea Scrolls as the Wicked Priest. Thiering examines each of the miracles in the New Testament and finds in them nothing miraculous, but rather events marking turning points in the history of "the Fig Tree", as the movement was called.

Thiering sees Jesus as a prominent member of the Essene movement. His prominence derived from his descent from the Davidic kingship, as well as the efforts of his great grandfather, said to have been Hillel the Great, and his grandfather, Heli, to establish schools of religious instruction for Jews of the Diaspora. Unlike Simon Magus, the second most important figure in the New Testament according to Thiering, Jesus was a pacifist. He opposed the zealots, calling for a reform and renewal of religion. This would lead to a Jewish empire which would overrule the Roman Empire by its appeal to reason and morality.

Wikipedia, jesus the man, barbara thiering.

Good compelling read it was, but her conclusions are a little far off though.
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Re: Was Jesus the son of god or just a human ?
Reply #42 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 10:07pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 9:43pm:
Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.
So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

John 8:34-36


Very nice.
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Re: Was Jesus the son of god or just a human ?
Reply #43 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 10:10pm
 
rabbitoh08 wrote on Jun 5th, 2014 at 11:26pm:
Yadda wrote on Jun 4th, 2014 at 11:48pm:
Many people alive today claim to have met him, and to have been in his presence.


Many people alive today do a lot of drugs.




If  'doing a lot of drugs' = 1

Being in the presence of Jesus = 1 x 100




p.s.
Good luck with the drugs!

Cheesy

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: Was Jesus the son of god or just a human ?
Reply #44 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 10:11pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 9:43pm:
Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.
So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

John 8:34-36



Absolutely!

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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