UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 7^th, 2014 at 8:28pm:


If you say so Einstein. 

sprintcyclist, you do realise that textbooks and articles can be based on faulty evidence. I would like to see the publisher of these books and find out where they get their information. Because I believe that the writings can be subjectively told to the reader, rather than objectively. So, you could understand that, even considering your concessions, few people were literate and few travelled very far. That's what undid my enthusiasm for religion over 22 years ago. Illiterate, untravelled witnesses to an alleged miracle worker, will not help the credibility of a religion's survival. Especially for one that lives nearly 2000 years after their supposed death.

But then again, perhaps I haven't thoroughly explored the question well enough. Perhaps we could also say that Jesus really was a real person, but he lived 5000 years ago. And the bible stories were collaborated into one book and disseminated officially 1700 years ago. There could be any number of possibilities, and I think it wrong of you people to dismiss my views simply on the basis that I'm one of the growing 35% of non-believers in religion in Australia.

There are many other aspects of jesus' life where ignorance is the rule rather than the exceptions for christians and non christians alike--his relationships with judas, john the baptist, and the beloved disciple, his ungovernable temper, his fondness for wine, his decidedly unheroic appearance; hostile relations with his family which is referenced in the four gospels and the probable circumstances of his birth, it must said that in these areas the evidence which will be presented here---much of which will contradicts the accepted view---falls short of conclusive proof. All that can be said with certainty is that the conclusions drawn are more probable than the glossy mythology which has been purveyed for the last two millennia, But the essentail point is that in each case ignorance of the facts has been positively encouraged.

(con)
The other, less commendable reason is the church's deep concern to present jesus in the most attractive light possible, to universalise him so that his appeal is as powerful to a peruvian street child as it is to a millionaire american president, To this end they have highlighted some elements with a fierce intensity---Suffer the little children'--love your enemies'--ÿou brood of vipers'...I have come to set a man against his father.....--to the shadows of obstruction and obscurity.
They have in effect "packaged"his personality. They have removed his rantings, they have washed him; they have modelled him by Michelangelo and costumed him by Giotto; they have demotivated and dehumanised him; they have removed him from his time and place; they have moulded him to their will. For their own continueing glorication they have played with the truth and turned their plaything into a virtue.

The most logical explanation is that Jesus was just a man.
When in doubt go the most logical and least complicated.

But Monty Python certainly showed how the truth can be misconstrued.

I found the scene when one group had taken to tieing sandals to poles a great example. (after Bwian had lost a sandal when running from the Romans)

Well so long after the fact it hardly matters, but I think he probably existed.
Jesus is credited with some great teachings, so as long as we can learn from that his existence hardly matters.

Not the crap thats lurking in the Old Testament tho, thats just nasty stuff

miketrees wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 10:18pm:


Yeah.

The teachings,     ....were well, great,    ....well, 'some' of them.

But the teachers' existence, is insignificant and his existence 'hardly matters' ?




miketrees,

I know that you don't have the time to waste on such an undertaking, but persons like yourself really should, try to make some time to at least read the Gospels.

And if you do read the Gospels you may notice that the teacher, Jesus, who's 'existence hardly mattered', was constantly frequently referring to, and quoting from, the O.T. "the law and the prophets".

Q.
Why so ?

A.
Coz Jesus was a Torah observant Jewish man.

[The Torah, is the Jewish law, that was given to Moses, by God.    Reputedly.     Allegedly.       You know, that sky-faerie bloke. ]


Luke 24:25
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26  Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27  And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


Luke 24:44
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.





Quote:


Yeah.

We can listen to that teacher, Jesus, that dude in that New Testament thingy, who had 'some great teachings'.

But not that 'nasty' O.T. stuff.         

What did Jesus say about that 'nasty' O.T. stuff ?



Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19  Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus taught that righteousness - keeping the law - was still important.

AND, loving God - was important too - by honouring God, by trying to keep his laws.

Matthew 22:36
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38  This is the first and great commandment.
39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.






"Thou shalt do no murder,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Honour thy father and thy mother."
Matthew 19:16-19

All of those commandments, above, were quoted by Jesus, directly from the book(s) of the law, the Torah,
Exodus 20:12-16
Deuteronomy 5:16-20





New covenant, old laws.




Never old.

IMAGE....






If you are a Christian, and if you believe that those Old Testament laws [God's laws of righteousness] are unimportant [for you as a Christian], you are very, very, mistaken.

Read your Bible!