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Breastfeeding,again (Read 3677 times)
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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #30 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 2:09pm  
Kytro wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 12:06pm:
... wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 11:50am:
Kytro wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 10:21am:
... wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 9:45am:
Kytro wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 9:30am:
Asking for trouble? I'm assuming it's about rape, which when perpetrated by strangers is rarely about sexual attraction.


So tell me why 80% of rapes are against women under 30? (ie while they are still attractive)



Studies show that provocative clothing does not increase the chances of rape.

The majority of rape (70-80%) is committed by people the rapists knows, not some random stranger from the street. This includes, friends, family etc.

The two largest age groups of women that get sexually assaulted are 10-14 and 15-19.

Studies show that sexual satisfaction is in the minority in terms of motivations for rape, with power and anger being the biggest contenders.

What evidence do you have for an alternative position?



Oh is that how it works? 

You make stupid, counter-intuitive statement and back it up with barely, if-at-all relevant surrogate markers and it's up to me to disprove it?



I provided some evidence for my position, you have provided virtually none for yours.

The null hypothesis (default position between two things) is dressing provocatively has no impact on sexual assault, for you to claim otherwise means you need evidence.

Just because you find it intuitive isn't evidence.


Ah.  You don't know what 'surrogate markers' means.

It's when one measures similar, but not identical things.  For example, when one subtitutes "dressing provocatively" for "sexual attraction", or "sexual assault" for "rape". 

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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #31 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 2:11pm  
Kytro wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 12:02pm:
... wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 11:51am:
Kytro wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 10:24am:
freediver wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 10:14am:
Because they are the ones who need to be taught a lesson.

I think our society is way too prudish. It is silly to automatically associate nudity with sexuality or offense. The continental Europeans handle it much better. If you want to flop both of them out to give the kid a choice, everyone else should get over it and stop being so judgemental. It doesn't make you a slut.


This is another point of contention I have. Most people view promiscuity by females to be far worse than promiscuity by males.



So?  It makes perfect sense in an evolutionary context.


That does not mean it is rational or desirable for society. It makes sense we like fat and sugar, but that does not mean we should eat as much as we want.


Meh.  You can complain about our nature all you like - you'll just be forever disappointed.
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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #32 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 2:55pm  
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 1:15pm:
I asked you a question - " You're taken in by that nonsense?"

Do you seriously believe what you said?

If so, what are you basing that assumption on?


Yes,  I seriously do. The reason is because the balance of research suggests it is correct.

Like all research, there are opposing viewpoints, but I do think research is a better basis for opinion than intuition.

It's a complex issue and sexual assault does have various motivators such as sexual entitlement, sexual satisfaction, power, anger, sadism etc.

Those attacking strangers tend toward the power/anger end of the spectrum
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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #33 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 3:04pm  
... wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 2:11pm:
Meh.  You can complain about our nature all you like - you'll just be forever disappointed.


There are plenty of things we do as society that are not in line with biological motivations.

In any case, the sexual promiscuity being bad thing seems more a social construct than a biological imperative. Women themselves are actually more critical of promiscuity than men.
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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #34 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 3:24pm  
Kytro wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 2:55pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 1:15pm:
I asked you a question - " You're taken in by that nonsense?"

Do you seriously believe what you said?

If so, what are you basing that assumption on?


Yes,  I seriously do. The reason is because the balance of research suggests it is correct.

Like all research, there are opposing viewpoints, but I do think research is a better basis for opinion than intuition.

It's a complex issue and sexual assault does have various motivators such as sexual entitlement, sexual satisfaction, power, anger, sadism etc.

Those attacking strangers tend toward the power/anger end of the spectrum




Is that what the rapists told the researchers?

And you still want to go with that story?
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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #35 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 3:27pm  
Kytro wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 3:04pm:
... wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 2:11pm:
Meh.  You can complain about our nature all you like - you'll just be forever disappointed.


There are plenty of things we do as society that are not in line with biological motivations.

In any case, the sexual promiscuity being bad thing seems more a social construct than a biological imperative. Women themselves are actually more critical of promiscuity than men.


Not getting syphilis is a pretty strong biological imperative. Women have good reason to fear a syphilitic whore wandering into town more than some dirty old man with syphilis.
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« Last Edit: Jun 6th, 2014 at 3:34pm by freediver »  
People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #36 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 3:32pm  
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 3:24pm:
Kytro wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 2:55pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 1:15pm:
I asked you a question - " You're taken in by that nonsense?"

Do you seriously believe what you said?

If so, what are you basing that assumption on?


Yes,  I seriously do. The reason is because the balance of research suggests it is correct.

Like all research, there are opposing viewpoints, but I do think research is a better basis for opinion than intuition.

It's a complex issue and sexual assault does have various motivators such as sexual entitlement, sexual satisfaction, power, anger, sadism etc.

Those attacking strangers tend toward the power/anger end of the spectrum




Is that what the rapists told the researchers?

And you still want to go with that story?




More than I want to go with your "feelings". But still research doesn't just "ask" them.
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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #37 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 4:15pm  
Kytro wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 10:24am:
freediver wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 10:14am:
Because they are the ones who need to be taught a lesson.

I think our society is way too prudish. It is silly to automatically associate nudity with sexuality or offense. The continental Europeans handle it much better. If you want to flop both of them out to give the kid a choice, everyone else should get over it and stop being so judgemental. It doesn't make you a slut.


This is another point of contention I have. Most people view promiscuity by females to be far worse than promiscuity by males.


It is because women are mothers or potentially, mothers and besides everything else, have to set an example.

What child likes to see mother flaunting her boobs or showing her underwear every time she bends own?
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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #38 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 4:17pm  
olde.sault wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 4:15pm:
Kytro wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 10:24am:
freediver wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 10:14am:
Because they are the ones who need to be taught a lesson.

I think our society is way too prudish. It is silly to automatically associate nudity with sexuality or offense. The continental Europeans handle it much better. If you want to flop both of them out to give the kid a choice, everyone else should get over it and stop being so judgemental. It doesn't make you a slut.


This is another point of contention I have. Most people view promiscuity by females to be far worse than promiscuity by males.


It is because women are mothers or potentially, mothers and besides everything else, have to set an example.

What child likes to see mother flaunting her boobs or showing her underwear every time she bends own?


actually I'm pretty sure most kids wouldn't give a damn ... unless you've already brain washed them into thinking its bad
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #39 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 4:37pm  
olde.sault wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 4:15pm:
Kytro wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 10:24am:
freediver wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 10:14am:
Because they are the ones who need to be taught a lesson.

I think our society is way too prudish. It is silly to automatically associate nudity with sexuality or offense. The continental Europeans handle it much better. If you want to flop both of them out to give the kid a choice, everyone else should get over it and stop being so judgemental. It doesn't make you a slut.


This is another point of contention I have. Most people view promiscuity by females to be far worse than promiscuity by males.


It is because women are mothers or potentially, mothers and besides everything else, have to set an example.

What child likes to see mother flaunting her boobs or showing her underwear every time she bends own?


Pretty sure most children don't actually care
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #40 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 5:09pm  
Kytro wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 3:32pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 3:24pm:
Kytro wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 2:55pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 1:15pm:
I asked you a question - " You're taken in by that nonsense?"

Do you seriously believe what you said?

If so, what are you basing that assumption on?


Yes,  I seriously do. The reason is because the balance of research suggests it is correct.

Like all research, there are opposing viewpoints, but I do think research is a better basis for opinion than intuition.

It's a complex issue and sexual assault does have various motivators such as sexual entitlement, sexual satisfaction, power, anger, sadism etc.

Those attacking strangers tend toward the power/anger end of the spectrum




Is that what the rapists told the researchers?

And you still want to go with that story?




More than I want to go with your "feelings". But still research doesn't just "ask" them.



Please elaborate.

I'm curious to find out exactly why you (and others) believe "rape ... when perpetrated by strangers is rarely about sexual attraction."

What else does "research" do?
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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #41 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 5:18pm  
olde.sault wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 4:15pm:
Kytro wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 10:24am:
freediver wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 10:14am:
Because they are the ones who need to be taught a lesson.

I think our society is way too prudish. It is silly to automatically associate nudity with sexuality or offense. The continental Europeans handle it much better. If you want to flop both of them out to give the kid a choice, everyone else should get over it and stop being so judgemental. It doesn't make you a slut.


This is another point of contention I have. Most people view promiscuity by females to be far worse than promiscuity by males.


It is because women are mothers or potentially, mothers and besides everything else, have to set an example.

What child likes to see mother flaunting her boobs or showing her underwear every time she bends own?



I doubt many children would see mum breast feeding their baby brother or sister as 'flaunting her boobs'. Kids adapt to the environment they live in, if mum has always flashed her underwear, the kids wouldn't think anything of it.
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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #42 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 5:24pm  
Kytro wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 3:04pm:
... wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 2:11pm:
Meh.  You can complain about our nature all you like - you'll just be forever disappointed.


There are plenty of things we do as society that are not in line with biological motivations.

In any case, the sexual promiscuity being bad thing seems more a social construct than a biological imperative. Women themselves are actually more critical of promiscuity than men.


Yeah, not sure why that would puzzle you.

If someone was giving out something (sex) for free, or vastly underpriced, while you're trying to sell it for maximum value, you'd get a bit pissed too.  The people getting the freebies (in this case, men) would rarely complain.
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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #43 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 5:26pm  
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 5:09pm:
Kytro wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 3:32pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 3:24pm:
Kytro wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 2:55pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 1:15pm:
I asked you a question - " You're taken in by that nonsense?"

Do you seriously believe what you said?

If so, what are you basing that assumption on?


Yes,  I seriously do. The reason is because the balance of research suggests it is correct.

Like all research, there are opposing viewpoints, but I do think research is a better basis for opinion than intuition.

It's a complex issue and sexual assault does have various motivators such as sexual entitlement, sexual satisfaction, power, anger, sadism etc.

Those attacking strangers tend toward the power/anger end of the spectrum




Is that what the rapists told the researchers?

And you still want to go with that story?




More than I want to go with your "feelings". But still research doesn't just "ask" them.



Please elaborate.

I'm curious to find out exactly why you (and others) believe "rape ... when perpetrated by strangers is rarely about sexual attraction."

What else does "research" do?


This is an example.

Quote:
This research combined questions assessing these underlying motivational factors, as well as questions dealing with underlying sexual motivation and disinhibition, with a slightly modified version of the Sexual Experiences Survey


Do you have some alternative position and evidence?
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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #44 - Jun 6th, 2014 at 5:29pm  
Kytro wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 4:37pm:
olde.sault wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 4:15pm:
Kytro wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 10:24am:
freediver wrote on Jun 6th, 2014 at 10:14am:
Because they are the ones who need to be taught a lesson.

I think our society is way too prudish. It is silly to automatically associate nudity with sexuality or offense. The continental Europeans handle it much better. If you want to flop both of them out to give the kid a choice, everyone else should get over it and stop being so judgemental. It doesn't make you a slut.


This is another point of contention I have. Most people view promiscuity by females to be far worse than promiscuity by males.


It is because women are mothers or potentially, mothers and besides everything else, have to set an example.

What child likes to see mother flaunting her boobs or showing her underwear every time she bends own?


Pretty sure most children don't actually care


...until...they become teenagers, then the critique of the parents is so evident.....if anyone hasn't had teens that get embarrassed by their folks at some time....

Reminds me of a quote I read.....
“When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”
~ Mark Twain  Smiley
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