Australian Politics Forum - Breastfeeding,again

greggerypeccary

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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #45 - Jun 6^th, 2014 at 5:30pm

Kytro wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 5:26pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 5:09pm:

Kytro wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 3:32pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 3:24pm:

Kytro wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 2:55pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 1:15pm:

I asked you a question - " You're taken in by that nonsense?"

Do you seriously believe what you said?

If so, what are you basing that assumption on?

Yes, I seriously do. The reason is because the balance of research suggests it is correct.

Like all research, there are opposing viewpoints, but I do think research is a better basis for opinion than intuition.

It's a complex issue and sexual assault does have various motivators such as sexual entitlement, sexual satisfaction, power, anger, sadism etc.

Those attacking strangers tend toward the power/anger end of the spectrum

Is that what the rapists told the researchers?

And you still want to go with that story?

More than I want to go with your "feelings". But still research doesn't just "ask" them.

Please elaborate.

I'm curious to find out exactly why you (and others) believe "rape ... when perpetrated by strangers is rarely about sexual attraction."

What else does "research" do?

This is an example.

Quote:

This research combined questions assessing these underlying motivational factors, as well as questions dealing with underlying sexual motivation and disinhibition, with a slightly modified version of the Sexual Experiences Survey

They asked and surveyed the rapists?

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Kytro

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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #46 - Jun 6^th, 2014 at 5:39pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 5:30pm:

Kytro wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 5:26pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 5:09pm:

Kytro wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 3:32pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 3:24pm:

Kytro wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 2:55pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 1:15pm:

I asked you a question - " You're taken in by that nonsense?"

Do you seriously believe what you said?

If so, what are you basing that assumption on?

Yes, I seriously do. The reason is because the balance of research suggests it is correct.

Like all research, there are opposing viewpoints, but I do think research is a better basis for opinion than intuition.

It's a complex issue and sexual assault does have various motivators such as sexual entitlement, sexual satisfaction, power, anger, sadism etc.

Those attacking strangers tend toward the power/anger end of the spectrum

Is that what the rapists told the researchers?

And you still want to go with that story?

More than I want to go with your "feelings". But still research doesn't just "ask" them.

Please elaborate.

I'm curious to find out exactly why you (and others) believe "rape ... when perpetrated by strangers is rarely about sexual attraction."

What else does "research" do?

This is an example.

Quote:

This research combined questions assessing these underlying motivational factors, as well as questions dealing with underlying sexual motivation and disinhibition, with a slightly modified version of the Sexual Experiences Survey

They asked and surveyed the rapists?

Short of a mind reading device what else do you expect? It's not like ask "why did you rape?" How do you think we determine intent in things?

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Sophia

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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #47 - Jun 6^th, 2014 at 5:44pm

Kytro wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 3:04pm:

... wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 2:11pm:

Meh. You can complain about our nature all you like - you'll just be forever disappointed.

There are plenty of things we do as society that are not in line with biological motivations.

In any case, the sexual promiscuity being bad thing seems more a social construct than a biological imperative. Women themselves are actually more critical of promiscuity than men.

This actually reminds me why that may be so, with my gen anyway....when I was a very early developed teen with boobs I didn't want, and particularly more bustier than most, and all the attention I (they) got Grin

.....damned hated all the attention, the more I tried to walk hunch back with arms crossed, the more I wore baggy tops to hide myself, the more I seemed to attract all sorts of unwanted attention.
From all ages of males.
I looked about 16 at age 14.
Funny thing is, by the time I was 19, I looked only 15 Grin

Most guys were suprised I had my drivers licence!

Now I am talking about the way times were back in the 1960's and early 70's....big revolutionary stuff happening, music, long hair, mini skirts, flower power, make love not war, free love, burn the bra, rebelliousness against the oldies and the establishment, consciencious objectors, etc etc.

It was a time when new attitude with freedom and fashion and music exploded....so much for me being shy with unwanted attention Roll Eyes

When my daughter was 14 with her friend, and they wanted to go to parties and I would drive them, looking at their dress code would astound me....lovely and curvy etc...but I was glad my daughter was more hippy and covered up more than her friend....I wasn't worried for them the way they dressed with clingy clothes to accentuate their beautiful curves, I was more worried about the unwanted attention it may get......does this make sense?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #48 - Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:11pm

Kytro wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 5:39pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 5:30pm:

Kytro wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 5:26pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 5:09pm:

Kytro wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 3:32pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 3:24pm:

Kytro wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 2:55pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 1:15pm:

I asked you a question - " You're taken in by that nonsense?"

Do you seriously believe what you said?

If so, what are you basing that assumption on?

Yes, I seriously do. The reason is because the balance of research suggests it is correct.

Like all research, there are opposing viewpoints, but I do think research is a better basis for opinion than intuition.

It's a complex issue and sexual assault does have various motivators such as sexual entitlement, sexual satisfaction, power, anger, sadism etc.

Those attacking strangers tend toward the power/anger end of the spectrum

Is that what the rapists told the researchers?

And you still want to go with that story?

More than I want to go with your "feelings". But still research doesn't just "ask" them.

Please elaborate.

I'm curious to find out exactly why you (and others) believe "rape ... when perpetrated by strangers is rarely about sexual attraction."

What else does "research" do?

This is an example.

Quote:

This research combined questions assessing these underlying motivational factors, as well as questions dealing with underlying sexual motivation and disinhibition, with a slightly modified version of the Sexual Experiences Survey

They asked and surveyed the rapists?

Short of a mind reading device what else do you expect? It's not like ask "why did you rape?" How do you think we determine intent in things?

I didn't expect anything.

Moreover, I don't really trust statistics based on conversations with criminals.

If rape, "when perpetrated by strangers is rarely about sexual attraction", why are the victims mainly young, attractive women?

If rape is "an act of violence, used to dominate, violate and control", why don't they go after the weaker, uglier and older women?.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49308 At my desk.	Re: Breastfeeding,again Reply #49 - Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:23pm It's because young beautiful women have more social power.
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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #50 - Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:28pm

Power is part of it. I expect rapists are frustrated that they're not getting any, as women have the power to refuse them. So rape is them taking it by force.

But it only works if the rapsits actually want sex from their victims. That is, they need to be sexually attarcted to them.

Nobody gets frustrated at not getting attention from fat/ugly/old shielas. Why would they risk the consequences of raping someone, when they don't want them in the first place?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49308 At my desk.	Re: Breastfeeding,again Reply #51 - Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:31pm Blokes rape each other in prison. This is not because they suddenly turn gay. It is a barbaric way of establishing a pecking order.
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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #52 - Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:38pm

freediver wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:31pm:

Blokes rape each other in prison. This is not because they suddenly turn gay. It is a barbaric way of establishing a pecking order.

Yep, but that's a different set of circumstances.

You cant' separate sex from power, nor can you separate genes from culture, so arguing over which "one" of them causes something is a hopeless cause.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 138839 Gender:	Re: Breastfeeding,again Reply #53 - Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:38pm freediver wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:31pm: Blokes rape each other in prison. This is not because they suddenly turn gay. It is a barbaric way of establishing a pecking order. And getting their rocks off in something other than their own hands, I would assume
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 138839 Gender:	Re: Breastfeeding,again Reply #54 - Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:39pm freediver wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:23pm: It's because young beautiful women have more social power. You don't think they have more "sexual attraction"?
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Kytro

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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #55 - Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:40pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:11pm:

I didn't expect anything.

Moreover, I don't really trust statistics based on conversations with criminals.

If rape, "when perpetrated by strangers is rarely about sexual attraction", why are the victims mainly young, attractive women?

If rape is "an act of violence, used to dominate, violate and control", why don't they go after the weaker, uglier and older women?.

We can only work with the best data we have.

Most victims know their attackers by a large margin, those attacked on the streets are targets of opportunity, vulnerable and who is more vulnerable than a drunk young woman walking alone at night?

Correlation isn't causation. For example it might be that young women tend to engage risky behavior and frequent places where they are more likely to be targeted. The behaviour may be the risk factor rather than attractiveness.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #56 - Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:49pm

Kytro wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:40pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:11pm:

I didn't expect anything.

Moreover, I don't really trust statistics based on conversations with criminals.

If rape, "when perpetrated by strangers is rarely about sexual attraction", why are the victims mainly young, attractive women?

If rape is "an act of violence, used to dominate, violate and control", why don't they go after the weaker, uglier and older women?.

We can only work with the best data we have.

Most victims know their attackers by a large margin, those attacked on the streets are targets of opportunity, vulnerable and who is more vulnerable than a drunk young woman walking alone at night?

Correlation isn't causation. For example it might be that young women tend to engage risky behavior and frequent places where they are more likely to be targeted. The behaviour may be the risk factor rather than attractiveness.

True enough.

I'd be interested in seeing the research:

"This research combined questions assessing these underlying motivational factors, as well as questions dealing with underlying sexual motivation and disinhibition, with a slightly modified version of the Sexual Experiences Survey."

Where it took place, how many involved, etc.

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Kytro

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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #57 - Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:52pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:49pm:

Kytro wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:40pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:11pm:

I didn't expect anything.

Moreover, I don't really trust statistics based on conversations with criminals.

If rape, "when perpetrated by strangers is rarely about sexual attraction", why are the victims mainly young, attractive women?

If rape is "an act of violence, used to dominate, violate and control", why don't they go after the weaker, uglier and older women?.

We can only work with the best data we have.

Most victims know their attackers by a large margin, those attacked on the streets are targets of opportunity, vulnerable and who is more vulnerable than a drunk young woman walking alone at night?

Correlation isn't causation. For example it might be that young women tend to engage risky behavior and frequent places where they are more likely to be targeted. The behaviour may be the risk factor rather than attractiveness.

True enough.

I'd be interested in seeing the research:

"This research combined questions assessing these underlying motivational factors, as well as questions dealing with underlying sexual motivation and disinhibition, with a slightly modified version of the Sexual Experiences Survey."

Where it took place, how many involved, etc.

This one is unfortunately not free to access.

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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #58 - Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:55pm

Kytro wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:52pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:49pm:

Kytro wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:40pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:11pm:

I didn't expect anything.

Moreover, I don't really trust statistics based on conversations with criminals.

If rape, "when perpetrated by strangers is rarely about sexual attraction", why are the victims mainly young, attractive women?

If rape is "an act of violence, used to dominate, violate and control", why don't they go after the weaker, uglier and older women?.

We can only work with the best data we have.

Most victims know their attackers by a large margin, those attacked on the streets are targets of opportunity, vulnerable and who is more vulnerable than a drunk young woman walking alone at night?

Correlation isn't causation. For example it might be that young women tend to engage risky behavior and frequent places where they are more likely to be targeted. The behaviour may be the risk factor rather than attractiveness.

True enough.

I'd be interested in seeing the research:

"This research combined questions assessing these underlying motivational factors, as well as questions dealing with underlying sexual motivation and disinhibition, with a slightly modified version of the Sexual Experiences Survey."

Where it took place, how many involved, etc.

This one is unfortunately not free to access.

Hmmm....

It's not very scientific to assimilate and disseminate the conclusions of a study, when you don't have any details about how it was conducted.

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In the fullness of time...

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Kytro

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Re: Breastfeeding,again
Reply #59 - Jun 7^th, 2014 at 10:42am

... wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:55pm:

Kytro wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:52pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:49pm:

Kytro wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:40pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 6^th, 2014 at 6:11pm:

I didn't expect anything.

Moreover, I don't really trust statistics based on conversations with criminals.

If rape, "when perpetrated by strangers is rarely about sexual attraction", why are the victims mainly young, attractive women?

If rape is "an act of violence, used to dominate, violate and control", why don't they go after the weaker, uglier and older women?.

We can only work with the best data we have.

Most victims know their attackers by a large margin, those attacked on the streets are targets of opportunity, vulnerable and who is more vulnerable than a drunk young woman walking alone at night?

Correlation isn't causation. For example it might be that young women tend to engage risky behavior and frequent places where they are more likely to be targeted. The behaviour may be the risk factor rather than attractiveness.

True enough.

I'd be interested in seeing the research:

"This research combined questions assessing these underlying motivational factors, as well as questions dealing with underlying sexual motivation and disinhibition, with a slightly modified version of the Sexual Experiences Survey."

Where it took place, how many involved, etc.

This one is unfortunately not free to access.

Hmmm....

It's not very scientific to assimilate and disseminate the conclusions of a study, when you don't have any details about how it was conducted.

It is peer reviewed, and has an abstract, and it was only an example. I'm not a scientist, I'm making an argument and using study conclusions to back my position.

Like I said before, the null hypothesis is that there is no relationship between things until proven otherwise.

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