Maybe Matty didn't like being a wisk.

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So why do you post so much?

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Can you give some examples? I don't recall anyone blaming their personal problems on Islam.

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Is that what you are doing when you ask why I don't question Yadda and Sprint as much as I do Gandalf?

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Sounds a little dramatic to me. What level of criticism of or interest in Islam would you tolerate as being within the bounds of rational inquiry? Or is being an apologist like you the only rational position to have? We can only complain about Muslims killing people after we ourselves have been murdered? Can you point out any famous philosophers who were as keen as you to apologise for head hacking ideologues? Or who had any respect for "disinterested" cheerleaders?

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Like when I refuse to accept that Muhammed calling for the execution of homosexuals is actually a tract supporting peace and tolerance towards gays?

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The verse you cited claimed there should be no compulsion "in acceptance of" religion. This is pretty much the position adopted by Malik, Abu, Falah etc. This is the position accepted by me as representative of Islamic theory, though obviously not practice. I would also add that a lot of discriminative Islamic law is a form of coercion, even if it does not involve holding a sword to the infidel's throat. We discussed this in detail at the time, and it is completely misleading of you to present it this way. Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they reject the facts off-hand.

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No you aren't. You are doing your bit to convince non-Muslims that they either do not exist or do not need to be challenged. Case in point - Malaysia.

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Yes it was. Blind Freddy could see that. Go ahead and ask him if you don't believe me.

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I think he wanted to reinforce his awareness of the old testament. I do not think he was trying to make it about anything other than gay sex.

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You can't expect people to take this BS seriously Gandalf. It is absurd. That is why you leave out so much of what he said and rephrase the rest. What he said was that the giver and the taker should be executed - an obvious reference to gay sex, even by your own admission.

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Gandalf is not challenging the fanatics. He is saving all his efforts at "reinterpretation" for the benefit of non-Muslims. When other Muslims were here Gandalf pretty much refused to talk to them in case they disagreed on something. From what I see, he is doing the same thing as Abu and all those Imams who have been busted spinning lies to the media. They are all trying to misrepresent Islam as being compatible with western liberal morals. They choose slightly different, often bewildering methods, but the effect is the same.

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I disagree that Muhammed calling for the execution of homosexuals is a statement of peace and tolerance towards homosexuals. If Gandalf really holds the views he espouses, that's great, but he cannot expect us to believe he represents Islam or has any ability to change Islam by spreading that crap.

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There was plenty of discussion here about it. Gandalf even insisted that because of my views on democracy I should support the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt.

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Gandalf explained recently that the only requirement is to lead 2 (other?) Muslims in prayer, which he apparently does regularly. I wonder if he has informed them of the "true" interpretation of Muhammed's call to execute gays.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 5:59pm:


This must give them an uncanny resemblance to FD.

That just makes you a spineless apologist, G.

FD, on behalf of Muslims everywhere, preaches Abu’s version of Islam as the correct one. If it was up.to FD, you’d be stoned for apostacy.

FD’s a live-and-let-live kind of guy.

My apologies Gandalf. It seems I have touched a nerve. I was just curious, that's all.
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 3:26pm:

True, but I was more seeking to establish whether you were speaking on behalf of Muslims generally or simply your own individual beliefs. Consider if our positions were reversed: If I were the Pope speaking about the fundamental tenets of Christianity, I'm sure you'd give my arguments more weight - not as to their truth or otherwise - but as to what is generally accepted as a tenet of Christianity. I was simply seeking to establish if your tenets of Islam are generally accepted in the Islamic community or simply your idiosyncratic views.

Anyhow, I included that bit to show that I was simply trying to understand what you are trying to say. I didn't realise you were uncomfortable talking about it. But, I can't say I blame you - I encountered some chap threatening another with burning coffee and another bloke with a smiling swastika on other boards. There do seem to be rather a few nutters around.

Apologies - I'm not a nutter (or at least I hope not) and was simply being inquisitive. I am sorry you see it as a red herring, and I hope you aren't offended. I was simply wondering whether you are  speaking about tenets of Islam as generally accepted by the community, or what you personally regard them to be.

And PS: I must be missing something, but it's freddy not matty.

You don’t care whether a criticism is true or not?

That’s a relief. 

Your criticism of Islam is the valid one - that’s a relief too, FD. Freeedom is in safe hands. The winner here is demokracy.

Would you care to posit who’s version of Christianity is the valid one? Y’s absence-of-Christ version or the old boy’s atheism?

We won’t bite, you know.

Isaiah 30:18
.....for the LORD is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him.